Pal Gwe vs. Tae Geuk Poomsae Sell your favorite set

[IcemanSK]

As mentioned in another thread, the Pal Gwe poomsae were official poomsae of Kukkiwon for 5 years in the 70's & were replaced by the Tae Geuk poomsae. The Tae Geuk were designed by the same men (with this addition of 3 more men) who designed the Pal Gwe poomsae. Taekwondo folks tend to be polarized as to which we like better. GM Kim Pyung Soo wrote a series of books on the Pal Gwe poomsae in the early 1980's, but they have not been in the Kukkiwon textbooks. There was an "official" DVD of the Pal Gwe poomsae within the past 10 years. But it was quickly replaced by the huge DVD series by KKW on the Tae Geuk & yudanja poomsae. Kukkiwon has said in the last several years that that Pal Gwe poomsae are really not to be practiced any longer.

Those who have practiced both sets, tend to be torn on their favorite. Those who have only practiced one or the other tend to only appreciate their experience.

Here's your chance to sell MT on why you enjoy the set you do. It does no good to rip the set you don't like. Sell, why you like the set that you do. Compare & contrast the 2 sets in your answer, but there's no need to bash the other set. The same gentlemen designed both sets. Out of respect for them, no bashing, please.

When I was a gup student in the early 80's, my master taught us Tae Geuk 1-8 & Pal Gwe 6, 7, & 8. When I learned them, I liked the Pal Gwe better because they didn't all fit the same pattern, & they weren't symmetrical, as the Tae Geuk are. I never saw the lower Pal Gwes until much later in my training. If it were up to me, I'd prefer to do the Pal Gwes.

 

[TrueJim]

"Taegeuk vs. Palgwae....fight!"

So far I know T1-8 and only P1-4. I like them both, I'll vote for Taegeuk:

• I like the fact that in the Taegeuk forms, the three lines are distinct.
• In the Taegeuk forms, I can see little hints of where the trigram meaning shows up in the form. For example, it's said that the Tiger Stance in T7 ("Mountain") alludes to the fact that in Korea tigers are associated with mountainous areas.
• I like the upright stances in the T1-3. It gives you more of a chance to practice changing stances, and more stances to practice with.
• The increased symmetry of the Taegeuk forms may make them seem a little more boring, but it also makes them feel cleaner. It's better for training too: making sure both sides of your body develop the same muscle memory.
• So far, it feels to me that the Taegeuk forms build upon one another better as you go through the series.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I practice and teach both, and I am apparently a weirdo because I like them both.

 

[dancingalone]

I teach the Taegeuk in my TKD school because it is the accepted standard. I do not love them, but at least they are the current thing. The Palgwe lack even that. My feeling is that if you want to practice non-KKW forms while being part of the KKW world, you should look to something like Tai Chi Chuan or learn a couple of the classical karate forms like Naihanchi Shodan, Sanchin, Seiunchin, or Rohai. There is arguably benefit there. Not sure if you could make as strong of a case for the Palgwe.

 

[Wilde]

I practice and teach both, and I am apparently a weirdo because I like them both.

You are not alone, we have to learn both for 3rd Dan.

 

[Kinghercules]

I taught both of them because I had worked at a KKW and a ITF schools. I dont like neither one of them. But I had to choose.....I guess the Palgwes. Only because they have that power built in. You can walk thru all the Taegeuks without breaking a sweat but you cant do that with the Palgwes. And damn sure not the Pinans. But the Palgwes are just rearranged Pinans with extra movements and illogical movements. The Taegeuks are......man dont get me started. LOL! Im just not a fan of them both after learning them and had to teach them for a few years.

 

[JP3]

This was back in the late 80s and to mid 90s, but the TKD/HKD school I attended and taught at did both sets, and I enjoyed them both for different reasons. In some moods, I liked the symmetry of the Tae Geuk, but when I was feeling cantankerous I felt like the Pal were more fun. As training tools, I ended up liking the Tae Geuk more for fitness and muscle-memory training, as that symmetry forced both sides of the body to keep up. But, for visualization purposes, the Pal were the thing.

My favorites of all were TAEBAEK & PYEONGWON, though, which we did at 3rd and 4th degree. I've no idea which "lineage" theyse originated from, however.

 

[Dirty Dog]

My favorites of all were TAEBAEK & PYEONGWON, though, which we did at 3rd and 4th degree. I've no idea which "lineage" theyse originated from, however.

They're not a part of either form set. They're a part of the yudanja (black belt) forms developed by the Kukkiwon.

 

[JP3]

DirtyDog, I get that they are black belt orms, because I was one... but I was young and dumb back then and "just did what I was told," without asking questions about history and such at that time.

I'm curious about "who" came up witht he black belt forms.... the Kukkiwon is both place and organization in my mind, not individuals. Were the same dudes who put together the lower rank forms for either set the guys who put together the black belt forms?

 

[TrueJim]

As I understand it...

In 1965 the Korea Taekwondo Association appointed a committee of representatives from six of the remaining major kwans to develop the forms for what is now called Kukkiwon-style taekwondo. The committee consisted of:

• Young Sup Lee of the Song Moo Kwan
• Kyo Yoon Lee of the Han Moo Kwan
• Man Hae Park of the Chung Do Kwan
• Jong Myun Hyun of the Oh Do Kwan
• Soon Bae Kim of the Chang Moo Kwan
• Either Gun Sik Kwak or Hae Man Park of the Chung Do Kwan (different sources cite different names)

In 1967, this committee introduced the Palgwe and also the Yudanja (Black Belt) forms (including a simpler version of Koryo).

In 1971 two additional kwans joined the committee:

• Chong Woo Lee of Jidokwan
• Young Ki Bae also of Jidokwan
• Young Tae Han of Moo Duk Kwan

This expanded committee went on to develop the Taegeuk forms, as well as the new version of Koryo. Reasons cited by some sources for replacing the Palgwae forms with the Taegeuk forms are:

• Doing so gave the two new kwans on the committee some input into the poomsae
• The floor patterns and movements of the new forms did a better job of representing the I Ching trigrams on which the floor patterns are based
• The new poomsae emphasized upright stances in the beginner forms, according to some sources so that the beginner would be better prepared sooner for sport-style sparring

 

[IcemanSK]

As I understand it...

In 1965 the Korea Taekwondo Association appointed a committee of representatives from six of the remaining major kwans to develop the forms for what is now called Kukkiwon-style taekwondo. The committee consisted of:

• Young Sup Lee of the Song Moo Kwan
• Kyo Yoon Lee of the Han Moo Kwan
• Man Hae Park of the Chung Do Kwan
• Jong Myun Hyun of the Oh Do Kwan
• Soon Bae Kim of the Chang Moo Kwan
• Either Gun Sik Kwak or Hae Man Park of the Chung Do Kwan (different sources cite different names)

In 1967, this committee introduced the Palgwe and also the Yudanja (Black Belt) forms (including a simpler version of Koryo).

In 1971 two additional kwans joined the committee:

• Chong Woo Lee of Jidokwan
• Young Ki Bae also of Jidokwan
• Young Tae Han of Moo Duk Kwan

This expanded committee went on to develop the Taegeuk forms, as well as the new version of Koryo. Reasons cited by some sources for replacing the Palgwae forms with the Taegeuk forms are:

• Doing so gave the two new kwans on the committee some input into the poomsae
• The floor patterns and movements of the new forms did a better job of representing the I Ching trigrams on which the floor patterns are based
• The new poomsae emphasized upright stances in the beginner forms, according to some sources so that the beginner would be better prepared sooner for sport-style sparring

I noted that you had Hae Man Park & Man Hae Park listed above. More than likely the source that lists Man Hae Park accidentally switched the names. Hae Man Park was the man who helped design both the Tae Geuk & Pal Gwe poomsae. To my knowledge, there is no one named Man Hae Park who was a notable in early days of Taekwondo.

 

[JP3]

This sounds horrible, but to transpose the Korean guys' names proper for middle, and vice-versa, seems to happen to us Westerners all the time because of unfamiliarity with the naming structures. Last names, not so much. I imagine that they do likewise with our own (West) "weird-sounding names, to them. I can totally imagine that, especially considering that in some o the cultures they swap the typical order we use, proper then middle then surname, etc.