Pace of students training ?

[bowser666]

So I wanted to ask this question of everyone and see what your thoughts are. Let's say you have two students that are friends and started training at your school together. Both students have a aptitude for MA , however, one student seems to be picking it up faster and is a natural at it. Would you try to keep the students testing together and hold back the one that learns faster so as not to bruise the ego of the "slower" student ? Or would you just let them both go at their own pace and what ever happens , happens?

 

[Svart]

Personally id speak to the student who is falling behind and try edge him to get a bit more training in. If he continues to fall behind due to lack of effort then let them go at their own pace, if he seems to be putting a lot of work into it then keep them together. Theres no point rushing the more adept one at a faster pace though, keep him on the regular schedual like all the others.

I am by no means an instructor however, these are just my personal views and shouldn't be taken in any other way.

 

[girlbug2]

Whatever is done, the "faster" student should not be held back. That will cheat him.

 

[harlan]

You keep at your pace, and as each student falls back, is sent to work on their own. Their friendship, and any complications from one learning faster at this stage, is a matter for the two of them to work out.

 

[Phoenix44]

Well, for one thing, how old are the students? Are they adults, kids? If we're talking about "Little Ninja" age kids, it may not matter much.

If you have a curriculum at your school with reasonably well defined standards and milestones, then no, you should not hold back a kid who has met the criteria to wait for a kid who hasn't.

HOWEVER, DON'T LET IT COME AS A SURPRISE, like "Peter is testing this month, and Paul isn't." Paul and his parents should be made aware in advance what Paul needs to do to be eligible to test, whether it's an issue of attendence, specific techniques or whatever. That gives Paul a chance to work harder, maybe even take a few private lessons. He may never be "a natural," but as we all know, hard work can often mitigate lack of natural talent. If the time comes he still isn't ready, he won't be happy, but at least it'll be fair, and he'll know why.

If you DON'T have a reasonably well defined curriculum, then I suggest you get one soon, or this will only be the beginning of your problems.

 

[Shicomm]

Imho everybody should be able to learn at the speed that he/she is confortable with.
In the end it's better for everybody i think.

btw ; a good frienship would never struggle because there's a different learning speed.

My two eurocents

 

[stickarts]

I have had this happen a number of times. I speak to each student privately about their progress. They need to work out between them any problems about moving at different rates although I would be a positive support and encouragement. I haven't held back one student to please another.

 

[harlan]

Personally, I found this to be a little stressful in my own situation. It was awkward, to start training, and to 'move past' a senior student. Our class would start with going through all the katas that we knew. In the beginning, I would be sent off to practice what I knew while the others went on. Over time, that happened less and less.

However, at one, point, senior student couldn't keep up...and was sent to practice. An informal class, no real strong sempai relationships, yet I found it awkward...and worried about stupid things...like 'face' or hurt feelings. I've been told that if one's feelings are easily hurt, one shouldn't be in martial arts. In this case, I did suffer some angst on the part of the senior student.

 

[hogstooth]

I don't understand the concept of holding one back for the benefit of another. Each of us has our own unique talents and strengths. It would be unfair to say that everyone progresses at the same speed. To hold back one to spare the feelings of the other serves no purpose. Ask yourself this, if I hold this student back and he gets frustrated and quits what have I achieved? You loose a future instructor or champion competitor that could enhance your school to spare the feelings of a student that may not reach to those levels ever.
You also set a precedence for all of your students that simply states if I am not to that level it's OK the instructor will hold everyone else back and wait on me.
Promote success and help those that strive for it. Don't change the way you teach because one student might get hurt feelings. We are all responsible for our selves and we make our own choices. If a student see others getting ahead s/he can get private lessons, take extra classes or just plain practice harder. It is up to them. Don't make it your personal problem or you will spend most of your time second guessing yourself instead of helping the rest of your student progress. Just a thought.

 

[MJS]

So I wanted to ask this question of everyone and see what your thoughts are. Let's say you have two students that are friends and started training at your school together. Both students have a aptitude for MA , however, one student seems to be picking it up faster and is a natural at it. Would you try to keep the students testing together and hold back the one that learns faster so as not to bruise the ego of the "slower" student ? Or would you just let them both go at their own pace and what ever happens , happens?

Everyone learns at their own pace. I've had parents show concern because their child, who started with a friend isn't moving as fast as the friend and their child is upset.

While it is nice to be able to have friends, brother and sister, husband and wife, etc. stay at the same pace, its not fair to either one to hold the other back.

IMHO, staying together isn't as important as making sure that the material that they're learning is quality. I'm a big advocate of quality over quantity.

Mike

 

[jks9199]

You keep at your pace, and as each student falls back, is sent to work on their own. Their friendship, and any complications from one learning faster at this stage, is a matter for the two of them to work out.

Everyone learns things at different rates, and at their own pace and level. It's unfair to hold one back "waiting" for the other to catch up -- and it's equally unfair to push one to advance before he's ready.

Explain this to them -- if they haven't already figured it out.

 

[Kacey]

In addition to the advice to let each go at his own pace - assuming they are old enough to understand that different people learn at different rates, and also old enough to be able to verbalize the techniques, have the one who is learning faster tutor the one who is learning slower.

 

[astrobiologist]

It sounds like everyone is pretty much in agreement so far... There is no sense in holding back one student to avoid having another feel "left behind".

Part of the martial arts is learning more about who you are and why you are a martial art practitioner. Sometimes, instructors and students place too much emphasis on rank or on the number of forms or techniques a person has been taught. When this happens, a lot of people end up knowing very little about a lot of 'stuff'.

If I were training these two students, I would have already spoken with them about where they are in their training in my eyes and where I think they could or should be. I would let them know that the most important thing is for them to be happy while being challenged to be their best and becomming proficient at their technique.

 

[Josh Oakley]

I've had a couple of experiences that would make me disagree. I've had more than a few students that pick up the material naturally, but they can't really tell you what they're doing, nor can they apply their material readily in every situation. The best I can liken it is two bushes. One grows tall and the other one grows wide. might be all well and good, unless you want the two bushes to be both tall and wide. In which case, you would hedge the top of one bush to make it grow wider, and the sides of the other to make it grow taller.

Not the best of all metaphors, but I have had many pairs of students where one will pick up material very quickly and the other ... not so quick. If I keep both at the pace they "learn", guess who becomes the better martial artist? The slower one, because they have to wrestle with the material more. The faster one, because he moves through the material, tends to develop many bad habits that hinder growth at the higher ranks. then they get frustrated because now they're progressing so slowly, and the slower one ends up outpacing them. That's why I train pairs like this at the same pace. The faster one motivates the slower one to try just a bit harder, and the slower one forces the faster guy to ease up and actually think about the things he is doing. Other teachers in my own organization disagreed with me, but enough of their "prodogies" ended up burning out at green or brown that they were forced to see the merit in my decision.

Is this always the case? Of course not! Some times you will have one student that just tries harder. And the student will naturally progress faster who tries harder. In which case I let them progress, and it either lights a fire under the partner's *** or causes them to admit they're not really dedicated and interested in the martial arts. Callous as it sounds, either way the student who's not really trying hard quits wasting his, my, and his partner's time.

Just some food for thought.

 

[Cirdan]

People test when they are ready. All will not be ready at the same time.

Myself, I think you progress a lot faster when your mind is not on the curriculum but simply on improving your art.

 

[IcemanSK]

Speaking as the slower learner of the two back in the day: each has their own pace...and that's ok. My buddy was the natural athlete & learned quicker than I did. I struggled & still wanted to learn.

But after 6 months, he quit. I've been training for 26 years.

A good instructor knows how to encourage students who struggle as well as the natural athlete.

 

[Shaderon]

In our classes everyone learns at thier own pace, if they have issues with the speed of learning of another student they are free to work it out between them but it rarely happens with us as the gradings are so regimented and regular and each student has the ability to do extra lessons up to the grading to catch up if necessary. If the student does not do the extra lessons and isn't ready they have no one else to blame but themselves, or thier parents if they are a kid. If a student is ready for the next grading ahead of time, they are encouraged and often required to help the lower ranks and the students who aren't ready at the same rank get ready for thier grading and with certain students who are always ready ahead of time, taught the requirements for the next grading too. Helping others also aids the student doing it as we have to do an instructors qualification in order to take our 1st Dan exam.

 

[CaffeineKing]

I've had more than a few students that pick up the material naturally, but they can't really tell you what they're doing, nor can they apply their material readily in every situation.

This is a great point. Likelihood is that the slower student would become the better teacher if/when he/she gets there? To follow what Iceman says, striving to succeed is more satisfying. I'd agree with everyone that these two should learn at their own pace. After all, there's no reason to think that A will always be better/faster than B either. He/she'll hit their limit at some point and will have to grind like the rest of us!

 

[harlan]

Kinda interesting...the pace of learning. While it's true, that people learn at different paces, what do you think of 'pushing' students? As teachers...do you set the pace...and constantly push students?

In our classes everyone learns at thier own pace...

 

[IcemanSK]

It is a bit harder when schools have belts. Especially kids struggle with wanting to be higher rank. Although, it's by no means limited to kids.

I currently have a student that struggles in a class with several stand-out students of higher rank. She is often not ready for belt tests when they are. I give her extra encouragement & praise as often as I can. It easier to look at the kids that "get it" quicker, I'll admit. But I know this kid needs it too.