On Iran

CanuckMA

Master of Arts
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
1,726
Reaction score
57
Location
Toronto
What is the point to that CanuckMA, tell me you didnt just play the anti-semetic card!

The point is it's not quite as cut and dry as "Mossad did it". Blaming israel, or any Western intelligence service, shows a lack of understanding of the forces inside Iran. Killing some lower ranking staff of the nuclear program and blaming 'the West" is good propanganda in Iran.
 

granfire

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
15,329
Reaction score
1,097
Location
In Pain
who knows, the scrub might have had a consion.
Off the opposition and blame the enemy...win/win...

Poor sap though...
 

Tez3

Sr. Grandmaster
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Messages
27,358
Reaction score
4,653
Location
England
A lot of opinion in Israel has it the Americans did it due to Obamas rather cryptic comments on the killing. There's a feeling that while Obama says he's a supporter of Israel that he's not, the American public is but not Obama himself. If he doesn't support Israel despite his words does this mean he could have ordered the killings? I don't know but it's a possiblity. I think it's worth a think about.
 
OP
Bill Mattocks

Bill Mattocks

Sr. Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Feb 8, 2009
Messages
14,828
Reaction score
3,029
Location
Michigan
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/01/13/false_flag

Buried deep in the archives of America's intelligence services are a series of memos, written during the last years of President George W. Bush's administration, that describe how Israeli Mossad officers recruited operatives belonging to the terrorist group Jundallah by passing themselves off as American agents. According to two U.S. intelligence officials, the Israelis, flush with American dollars and toting U.S. passports, posed as CIA officers in recruiting Jundallah operatives -- what is commonly referred to as a "false flag" operation.
...
Interviews with six currently serving or recently retired intelligence officers over the last 18 months have helped to fill in the blanks of the Israeli false-flag operation. In addition to the two currently serving U.S. intelligence officers, the existence of the Israeli false-flag operation was confirmed to me by four retired intelligence officers who have served in the CIA or have monitored Israeli intelligence operations from senior positions inside the U.S. government.
...
The report then made its way to the White House, according to the currently serving U.S. intelligence officer. The officer said that Bush "went absolutely ballistic" when briefed on its contents.

"The report sparked White House concerns that Israel's program was putting Americans at risk," the intelligence officer told me. "There's no question that the U.S. has cooperated with Israel in intelligence-gathering operations against the Iranians, but this was different. No matter what anyone thinks, we're not in the business of assassinating Iranian officials or killing Iranian civilians."
...
Israel regularly proposes conducting covert operations targeting Iranians, but is just as regularly shut down, according to retired and current intelligence officers. "They come into the room and spread out their plans, and we just shake our heads," one highly placed intelligence source said, "and we say to them -- 'Don't even go there. The answer is no.'"
...
A spate of stories in 2007 and 2008, including a report by ABC News and a New Yorker article, suggested that the United States was offering covert support to Jundallah. The issue has now returned to the spotlight with the string of assassinations of Iranian nuclear scientists and has outraged serving and retired intelligence officers who fear that Israeli operations are endangering American lives.

"This certainly isn't the first time this has happened, though it's the worst case I've heard of," former Centcom chief and retired Gen. Joe Hoar said of the Israeli operation upon being informed of it. "But while false-flag operations are hardly new, they're extremely dangerous. You're basically using your friendship with an ally for your own purposes. Israel is playing with fire. It gets us involved in their covert war, whether we want to be involved or not."

The Israeli operation left a number of recently retired CIA officers sputtering in frustration. "It's going to be pretty hard for the U.S. to distance itself from an Israeli attack on Iran with this kind of thing going on," one of them told me.
...
Isn't that interesting? No, I suppose not, if you think Israel poops flower-scented ponies and wishes candy canes and lollipops on all good little boys and girls.
 

CanuckMA

Master of Arts
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
1,726
Reaction score
57
Location
Toronto
Because foreignpolicy.com has no agenda and is a stalwart of un-biased articles.
 

Sukerkin

Have the courage to speak softly
MT Mentor
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Sep 15, 2006
Messages
15,318
Reaction score
480
Location
Staffordshire, England
Come along ladies and gentlemen, it's an involving enough topic for discussion without having to 'spice it up' with a little text-based-point-sparring.
 

Tez3

Sr. Grandmaster
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Messages
27,358
Reaction score
4,653
Location
England
It seemed appropriate.

Not really, I'm not discounting the fact that Israel could have killed the scientist but like the good investigator that I am, I'm also looking at other suspects, others with reasons to want to kill scientists in Iran. Nothing in the Middle East is what it seems, nothing is straightforward, there's smoke and mirrors everywhere. people don't say what they mean out there, don't mean what they say, as I said it's not politics as you know it. Syria is happily gunning down it's own people unless you think that's also Mossad? You think that factions in Iran couldn't do it? that the Kurds wouldn't? Or the Saudis? The Americans? The Brits? Keep an open mind about things like this because its never what it seems, despite what you think you know these people including my own both British and Israeli having been playing this game for centuries, it's not called the Great Game for nothing. the Americans aren't very good at it because bless them, and this is a compliment, they are too open and honest to intrigue with the same intensity and deviousness.
 

ballen0351

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Dec 25, 2010
Messages
10,443
Reaction score
1,136
I guess if you look at it at face value and think who would have the most motive to bump off a nuclear scientist. It would prob be the place that Iran has made it a point to want to wipe it from the face of the earth. Does that mean Israel did it no but thats who would have the best motive. I suspect it was not one nation at all but prob operatives for a few nations working together that way the blame is not on any one nation and all of them can say nope wasnt me and thats partially true.
No matter who did it I dont really care as long as it served its purpose and Iran never gets a nuclear weapon. I dont think they would ever use it under the iranian flag but Ill bet dollars to donuts when they get them one may get "stolen" by some extreamist group and I it would be used either in the US or Israel.
 

Tez3

Sr. Grandmaster
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Messages
27,358
Reaction score
4,653
Location
England

http://www.rojhelat.info/english/component/content/article/385

http://www.friendsofncri.org/autonomy.htm


The Kurds have every reason to attack the Iranians, they also have the means. Note on the first one someone is blaming the 'Zionists' for the attack.

Other resistance movements in Iran
http://www.ostomaan.org/articles/news-and-views/4462
http://www.enotes.com/topic/National_Resistance_Movement_of_Iran

Executions of political prisoners in Iran
http://www.mojahedin.org/pagesen/detailsNews.aspx?newsid=16670



A US National has been sentenced to death in Iran http://www.amnesty.org/en/for-media...-execution-us-national-spying-case-2012-01-09




Whoever killed the scientist, a good many people are pleased by the action. However whether it has any effect on the nuclear industry in Iran is doubtful.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

CanuckMA

Master of Arts
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
1,726
Reaction score
57
Location
Toronto
No matter who did it I dont really care as long as it served its purpose and Iran never gets a nuclear weapon.


To an extent, I agree.

However, the accusations can mean retalliations.

And for some of us, that hits home. During the first Gulf War, I dreaded the long distance ring from my phone. When I hear of suicide bombings In Israel, the first thing I look for in the story is location. I have many fiends, and a some extended family over there.
 

Makalakumu

Gonzo Karate Apocalypse
MT Mentor
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
13,887
Reaction score
232
Location
Hawaii
If Iran was actually developing a nuclear bomb, is there any possible way that this could be resolved without resorting to something that is lose lose for everyone?
 

Big Don

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
10,551
Reaction score
188
Location
Sanger CA
Since Iran is actually developing a nuclear bomb, is there any possible way that this could be resolved without resorting to something that is lose lose for everyone?

Fixed that for you.
Aside from Iran voluntarily KITFO, no.
 

Scott T

Brown Belt
Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Messages
421
Reaction score
5
Since it hasn't been proven that Iran is developing a nuclear bomb (and Washington's wishful thinking doesn't constitute proof), those inbred children in that malarial swamp of a city have a long way to go to be convincing.

Remember, these are the same knuckle-children that claimed that Iraq was buying Nigerian yellowcake despite their man on the ground, Joe Wilson, saying they were full of ****.
 

Big Don

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
10,551
Reaction score
188
Location
Sanger CA
As has been stated before:
The proof of Iran's having a nuclear weapon will be a mushroom cloud. I don't think it will be over Tel Aviv, I'd bet on near a large group of American troops, since they are almost as inherently evil, to the idiots as Jews.
 

Big Don

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
10,551
Reaction score
188
Location
Sanger CA
Since it hasn't been proven that Iran is developing a nuclear bomb (and Washington's wishful thinking doesn't constitute proof), those inbred children in that malarial swamp of a city have a long way to go to be convincing.

Remember, these are the same knuckle-children that claimed that Iraq was buying Nigerian yellowcake despite their man on the ground, Joe Wilson, saying they were full of ****.
Despite British Intel reports, that British Intel still stands by, people believe Iraq wasn't trying to buy yellowcake, mostly because of their political leanings...
 

Tez3

Sr. Grandmaster
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Messages
27,358
Reaction score
4,653
Location
England
Despite British Intel reports, that British Intel still stands by, people believe Iraq wasn't trying to buy yellowcake, mostly because of their political leanings...

Actually it was the Tony Blair's government (the socialist one) that said it was a fact and stood by it, the government that has got us into the wars, the government that 'sexed' up the report on WMD etc etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_Dossier


The Foreign Affairs Select Committee judged that the British Government had been wrong to state in an unqualified manner something that had not been established beyond doubt:
“We conclude that it is very odd indeed that the Government asserts that it was not relying on the evidence which has since been shown to have been forged, but that eight months later it is still reviewing the other evidence. The assertion "…that Iraq sought the supply of significant amounts of uranium from Africa …" should have been qualified to reflect the uncertainty.[SUP][9]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Affairs_Select_Committee[/SUP]
 
OP
Bill Mattocks

Bill Mattocks

Sr. Grandmaster
MTS Alumni
Joined
Feb 8, 2009
Messages
14,828
Reaction score
3,029
Location
Michigan
If Iran was actually developing a nuclear bomb, is there any possible way that this could be resolved without resorting to something that is lose lose for everyone?

The US and other western nations have been trying to negotiate with Iran for years over their nuclear program. Iran is willing to negotiate, but with one caveat; they will not, under any circumstances, abandon nuclear research and nuclear power. They of course claim they are not building weapons and have no plans to. The western world is willing to give much to Iran to get them to give up their nuclear program. They will not.

Therefore, there's not much more to talk about. Waiting to see if they develop an actual bomb or not is not safe. If they do, they will use it.
 
Top