On Guard!!

TKDTony2179

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Many guards out there. But which one is yours?

1. Low guard (Also known as no guard) is seen with Olympic sparring. From time to time a boxer will lower his guard to sucker his opponent in so he can counter punch.

2. One-hand guard. Mostly the rear hand be up by the head and the front by waist. Another counter puncher style. Hard to read the jab.

3. Boxer guard. Kickboxers, full contact karate and etc. This is the modern guard.

Which of the three do use? Do you use all of them or just one or two?

Also do anyone use the old double fist guarding block or the double knife hand guarding block as a guard?
 

Dirty Dog

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All of the above as well as variations on them.
 

Cyriacus

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Youre generalising a bit. Theres lots of different low guards.
Low guard with your elbows bent a little, so your hands are up by your hips.
Low guard with your hands around the level of your navel.
Low guard with your hands reaching out almost like feelers.
One hand guard by your ear.
One hand guard by your pectoralis major.
One hand guard out in front of you like a feeler.
One hand guard roughly aligned with your jaw in front of you.

And so on and so forth. Its... a versatile thing.

When i was more into sparring, at striking range i used a modified boxing stance. Feet shoulder width apart, not much length at all, knees slightly bent, body almost but not quite squared up. Chin down, torso inclined slightly forward, both hands up (open) in front of my face with enough room for me to see between them.
When out of range, same stance but with my hands around my midsection height instead, and an even shorter stance, more upright.

Even further prior to that, before i stopped with punching, all that was different is that i had closed hands and kept my rear hand up around my jawline. I found keeping it around the ear uncomfortable.

Ill comment that the double fist and double knifehand guards are questionably useful. I suspect they were never meant to be used as guards, if kata is anything to go by.
 

Mauthos

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I mainly use varients of traditional boxer guard and the one armed guard, Generally keeping my torso side on to my opponent to minimise the upper body target area as I was taught by my kickboxing and RAF Boxing coach. Always with my chin tucked in, not down on my chest but in tight so as to minimise the target area, basically where it is comfortable without over stretching.

Unlike Cyriacus, I don't tend to spar square on as it is uncomfortable for me and being of the wide variety of marital artist, leaves too much of my chest and stomach exposed. I also have the tops of my hands hovering around at chin or nose height, again a tip I was taught when boxing as it means I can look over my guard and not through it which means I basically have both hands fairly close together with my left further back than my right (south paw here :)). Therefore, I don't look through a gap between my hands as this would inevitably lead to the guy with a nippy jab striking through it a scoring a hit in my experience. It also enables easy defense with very slight movement in both hands and arms. For example only a mere inch or so movement upward allows me to cover big hooking shots aimed at my head and by only slipping ever so slightly downwards (maybe and inch or so) with a small bend in the waist toward the incoming punch enables my elbows to adequately cover myfloating ribs and lower abdomen, without the risk of dropping my arm completely, therefore enabling me to still protect my head. These tactics got me through a lot of my RAF bouts without taking too much damage and winning more than I lost.

Again, I agree that the 3 listed are very generalised and that the variations of a guard change per person, for example where, as Cyriacus, quite rightly mentioned, even your stance will contribute towards the type of guard you use.

Just my 2 pence.
 

Cyriacus

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Unlike Cyriacus, I don't tend to spar square on as it is uncomfortable for me and being of the wide variety of marital artist, leaves too much of my chest and stomach exposed.

Mm! I forgot to mention. I filtered it out as being not-sparring-related at first, but after reading that it is a big influence for me.
To me, closeness = good. My body barely if not actually touching your body is preferable. My stance was built with that in mind.
Range also plays a part in your stance. If you want to hang out further away your stance will be inherently different to someone who sticks to you.
 

RTKDCMB

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The main one I use is a slightly modified version of the forearm guarding block from the Chang Hon hyung. both fists are vertical and about shoulder height so I can use an outer forearm or outer block or a horizontal jab punch from that position and still have at least a half twist of the wrist directly from that same position. The body is fully side and the chin tucked inon to present the minimal aspect to the opponent. The front arm protects the head and the bent elbow protects the ribs. The rear arm does the same to the back ribs and provides a second line of defence to the head and protects the solar plexus. Being side on also protects the groin from frontal attacks and the front shoulder protects the head from headbutts. There are other guarding blocks that I use but this one is the most common. Also the guard is more than just the arms, it is the legs, the way you stand and present your body and hold your head as well.
 

Cyriacus

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and the front shoulder protects the head from headbutts.

If your lead arms been passed from that stance, theyre at enough of an offset to either headbutt you regardless, or throw you. If the arm hasnt been passed, theyre not close enough to headbutt you because your arms conveniently (for you) in the way.
 

RTKDCMB

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If your lead arms been passed from that stance, theyre at enough of an offset to either headbutt you regardless, or throw you. If the arm hasnt been passed, theyre not close enough to headbutt you because your arms conveniently (for you) in the way.

If they are standing in front of you and you are still side on and they get past your lead arm your shoulder will still be in the way. If they happen to get a hold of you then they can headbutt or throw you. For someone attempting to do a soccer style headbutt out of the blue then they can't get near your head.A guard, no matter how good, can only minimize the risks, not eliminate them.
 

Touch Of Death

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Mm! I forgot to mention. I filtered it out as being not-sparring-related at first, but after reading that it is a big influence for me.
To me, closeness = good. My body barely if not actually touching your body is preferable. My stance was built with that in mind.
Range also plays a part in your stance. If you want to hang out further away your stance will be inherently different to someone who sticks to you.
I think of guards as something for me to punch at; so, this is something I would do. Keep your self at positions of readiness as a guard. :)
 

Cyriacus

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If they are standing in front of you and you are still side on and they get past your lead arm your shoulder will still be in the way. If they happen to get a hold of you then they can headbutt or throw you. For someone attempting to do a soccer style headbutt out of the blue then they can't get near your head.A guard, no matter how good, can only minimize the risks, not eliminate them.

You say, after listing off how safe every area of your body is :D

Anyway. If they pass your arm, your body is turned. They are now offset to you, because youve turned yourself for them. Your shoulder is an obstacle, our temple down to your eye are still vulnerable.
 

Thousand Kicks

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Many guards out there. But which one is yours?

1. Low guard (Also known as no guard) is seen with Olympic sparring. From time to time a boxer will lower his guard to sucker his opponent in so he can counter punch.
I wouldn't necessarily say that hands down by your side equals no guard. In my experience 70-80% of kicks in olympic sparring are thrown to the body. So having your arms down by the sides of your body is a way to gaurd without having to move your arms around too much. Obviously the trade off is you head is completely exposed and deciding to guard your head requires you to lift your arms a large distance in a short time. To offset this weakness most olympic TKD fighters use swaying, rotating and footwork to either parry or move out of the way of head level kicks. My opinion is olympic style fighters use a fighting stance that fits more with the rules of the game. Switch to boxing or kick boxing and you would most likely go away from this stance.

Also remember that TKD fighters don't want to block a lot of kicks. Tournament style fighting means you will have more than one fight against multiple opponents. You want to avoid as much damage as possible. In a match of shin bone versus forearm, I choose shin. If I fight somebody that likes to block kicks, I fire away because I know I'm still doing some damage.
 

Cyriacus

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Protected does not necessarily mean safe.

It does, however, imply that something isnt vulnerable.
Off the top of my head, against traditional backstance. Pass arm, step offset, clothesline, gable grip, choke.

Lemme be clear: Im not criticizing the stance. But protection is subjective. I think what youre trying to say is 'less vulnerable to the things its designed to defend against'.
 
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TKDTony2179

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Many guards out there. But which one is yours?

1. Low guard (Also known as no guard) is seen with Olympic sparring. From time to time a boxer will lower his guard to sucker his opponent in so he can counter punch.
I wouldn't necessarily say that hands down by your side equals no guard. In my experience 70-80% of kicks in olympic sparring are thrown to the body. So having your arms down by the sides of your body is a way to gaurd without having to move your arms around too much. Obviously the trade off is you head is completely exposed and deciding to guard your head requires you to lift your arms a large distance in a short time. To offset this weakness most olympic TKD fighters use swaying, rotating and footwork to either parry or move out of the way of head level kicks. My opinion is olympic style fighters use a fighting stance that fits more with the rules of the game. Switch to boxing or kick boxing and you would most likely go away from this stance.

Also remember that TKD fighters don't want to block a lot of kicks. Tournament style fighting means you will have more than one fight against multiple opponents. You want to avoid as much damage as possible. In a match of shin bone versus forearm, I choose shin. If I fight somebody that likes to block kicks, I fire away because I know I'm still doing some damage.

That is what I keep hearing about blocks but I think people still the miss understanding of a TKD blocks. Unlike muay thai or boxing the blocks are not consider an absorbtion but as an deflection. For an example someone throws a waist level front kick and you do a low block, you will deflect it left or right and they will either expose stomach or back. With round kicks you block with the movement to swing the leg around and allow them to expose their back. When an oppenent do a inside cresent kick or axe kick a high block is used and simply walking forward will cause someone to fall or stagger while you counter. I don't know why WTF artist don't do that. I guess it not allowed in the rule set. So yea if I am not moving and just sitting their just with my arm out would just hurt and be dumb but with movement and making you opponent mis while deflecting can have it's advantages.
 
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TKDTony2179

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Youre generalising a bit. Theres lots of different low guards.
Low guard with your elbows bent a little, so your hands are up by your hips.
Low guard with your hands around the level of your navel.
Low guard with your hands reaching out almost like feelers.
One hand guard by your ear.
One hand guard by your pectoralis major.
One hand guard out in front of you like a feeler.
One hand guard roughly aligned with your jaw in front of you.

And so on and so forth. Its... a versatile thing.

When i was more into sparring, at striking range i used a modified boxing stance. Feet shoulder width apart, not much length at all, knees slightly bent, body almost but not quite squared up. Chin down, torso inclined slightly forward, both hands up (open) in front of my face with enough room for me to see between them.
When out of range, same stance but with my hands around my midsection height instead, and an even shorter stance, more upright.

Even further prior to that, before i stopped with punching, all that was different is that i had closed hands and kept my rear hand up around my jawline. I found keeping it around the ear uncomfortable.

Ill comment that the double fist and double knifehand guards are questionably useful. I suspect they were never meant to be used as guards, if kata is anything to go by.

Yea I am sure that the dble fist and dble knifehand where probably ment for just blocking everything that I am learning can have other usage as well. As for as for the low blocks you stated to me they are all the same to me. Low. LOL.
 

Cyriacus

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Yea I am sure that the dble fist and dble knifehand where probably ment for just blocking everything that I am learning can have other usage as well. As for as for the low blocks you stated to me they are all the same to me. Low. LOL.

Low, yes.
But a boxer with a low guard will invariably hold it differently to a taekwondoin :)
 

Earl Weiss

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Some good stuff there Earl. Yes I did notice that the guy did a traditional hand on belt rechamber. Probably from doing a lot of one steps or tuls. You got to separate that in your training. Hard for a lot of people.
I showed this on purpose, that's why the photo caption spotlighted it. I used a technique from some well known books where common errors are shown so people are alerted as to what to look for.
 

Thousand Kicks

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Many guards out there. But which one is yours?

1. Low guard (Also known as no guard) is seen with Olympic sparring. From time to time a boxer will lower his guard to sucker his opponent in so he can counter punch.

That is what I keep hearing about blocks but I think people still the miss understanding of a TKD blocks. Unlike muay thai or boxing the blocks are not consider an absorbtion but as an deflection. For an example someone throws a waist level front kick and you do a low block, you will deflect it left or right and they will either expose stomach or back. With round kicks you block with the movement to swing the leg around and allow them to expose their back. When an oppenent do a inside cresent kick or axe kick a high block is used and simply walking forward will cause someone to fall or stagger while you counter. I don't know why WTF artist don't do that. I guess it not allowed in the rule set. So yea if I am not moving and just sitting their just with my arm out would just hurt and be dumb but with movement and making you opponent mis while deflecting can have it's advantages.

Sometimes the word block is used generically. When I think block, I think force against force or absorbing a strike with the arms or legs (like a boxer going into a shell defense). Block can also mean to parry or misdirect. A single type of block i.e. a low block can be used in three basic ways

1. A misdirection (as you mentioned). In this case you would use the motion of the block to move a strike off its intended path. Typically the block is slower moving and timing is of the utmost importance. Olympic style fighting does allow this type of block as long as you don't grab or hook the leg or arm in the process.

2. Striking the limb. In this case the blocking motion is done fast and shrap to hit the attacking limb. The effect is similar to the misdirection, but the intent is to damage the attacking limb at the same time. Usually the block is in any direction other than meeting the strike "head on"

3. Force on force or absorption. In this case you want to block the strike by stopping it's motion. Or shell up and absorb the strike while maintaining a good base. Typically you want to stop a strike before it reaches full power and speed to reduce the damage you might receive.


The way you block a strike is dependent on the situation and each type of block leads to different types of counters.
 

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