OK... minor rant time

JadecloudAlchemist

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Sigung means Grandfather teacher and I am sorry but it appear "Sigung" Baker does not know Chinese, he can't be your sigung if he is your teacher.

Do you remember that movie The Stupids?

He sings this song:

Many, many years ago when I was twenty-three
I was married to a widow who was pretty as could be
This widow had a grownup daughter who had hair of red
My father fell in love with her, and soon they too were wed

This made my Dad my son-in-law and really changed my life
For now my daughter was my mother, 'cause she was my father's wife
And to complicate the matter, even though it brought me joy,
I soon became the father of a bouncing baby boy

My little baby then became a brother-in-law to Dad
And so became my uncle, though it made me very sad
For if he were my uncle, then that also made him brother
Of the widow's grownup daughter, who was of course my stepmother

Father's wife then had a son who kept them on the run
And he became my grandchild, for he was my daughter's son
My wife is now my mother's mother, and it makes me blue
Because although she is my wife, she's my grandmother too

Now if my wife is my grandmother, then I'm her grandchild
And every time I think of it, it nearly drives me wild
'Cause now I have become the strangest case you ever saw
As husband of my grandmother, I am my own grandpa

I'm my own grandpa,
I'm my own grandpa,
It sounds funny, I know
But it really is so
I'm my own grandpa
I think I am the only person who saw this movie on Martialtalk...:uhohh:
 

Ninebird8

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One of my Sifu, Leung Shum, in the old days would barely allow us to even call him that until after his Master Ng Wei died. Afterwards, it was Sifu, but now with 6 masters under him officially, and many instructors, does he accept the role of Sigung. On the other hand, in one of my two other Sifu's class, we called him Sifu in classs, Jeff out of class at his insistence, and Dr. Yang we just called him Dr. Yang. In my belief, the key here is honoring and respecting your master's knowledge, wisdom, and skill, regardless of title. When one of my students calls me Sifu, I frankly look around and go, "Where?", LOL!!!
 
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Xue Sheng

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My Yang Sifu goes by his first name and also doesn't mind Sifu but he was very adamant to a group that was starting to call him grand master that he is not a grand master and to not call him that. In China he would still be a Sifu, he was a student of Tung Ying Chieh

My first Sifu however when I first started training with him went by his first name, later didn't mind Sifu and now calls himself a grandmaster. In China he is a gym teacher and learned 95% of what he knows in college. But then my Sanda sifu and Chen Zhenglei also call him Grandmaster (Da Sifu – see end of first post of thread about Da shifu :D)
 

blindsage

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Call him what you want but he is not a sigung if you are talking Chinese martial arts unless he was the teacher of your teacher (sifu). He may have wanted to be called sigung but he was your sifu not your sigung if you are talking CMA.

Sigung means Grandfather teacher and I am sorry but it appear "Sigung" Baker does not know Chinese, he can't be your sigung if he is your teacher.
I think this post from the "Titles" thread in the General MA section explains the Kajukenbo context.
5th (degree black belt) in Kajukenbo is Sifu.
1st and 2nd - Sibak
3rd -5th - Sifu
6th and 7th - sigung
8th - Professor
9th - GM

I think it probably indicates either a lack of understanding of CMA in setting up the ranks or a conscious change of usage when the art was created.
 

blindsage

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My Yang Sifu goes by his first name and also doesn't mind Sifu but he was very adamant to a group that was starting to call him grand master that he is not a grand master and to not call him that. In China he would still be a Sifu, he was a student of Tung Ying Chieh

My first Sifu however when I first started training with him went by his first name, later didn't mind Sifu and now calls himself a grandmaster. In China he is a gym teacher and learned 95% of what he knows in college. But then my Sanda sifu and Chen Zhenglei also call him Grandmaster (Da Sifu see end of first post of thread about Da shifu :D)

My Bagua Sifu goes by Andy. When I first started and asked him what he prefers he said Andy. Some people still refer to him as Sifu in class (and one guy calls him Master Dale, I'm pretty sure without being told to), but he generally goes by his name. I refer to him as Sifu or Sifu Dale when I'm talking to others about him out of respect.
 
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Xue Sheng

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Or of course mandarin:

Da Shifu

Just noticed this

My recommendation is to NOT use Da Shifu on mainland China.

It is generally thrown around as either sarcasm or an insult

I think this post from the "Titles" thread in the General MA section explains the Kajukenbo context.


I think it probably indicates either a lack of understanding of CMA in setting up the ranks or a conscious change of usage when the art was created.

My guess is that like many in the West they likely think Sigung means grandmaster....and it doesn't.

And in China there are no grandmasters if you are talking Chinese. But if there is a westerner involved they let it go.

Actually I have had two of my sifus tell me that exactly There are no grandmasters in China and they were not talknig about skill level.
 

Tensei85

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Just noticed this

My recommendation is to NOT use Da Shifu on mainland China.

It is generally thrown around as either sarcasm or an insult

Nah, I agree but it is still used in terminology. However not common or heard of often as generally certain circumstances have to meet the need for such titles.

For instance more than one Sifu from the same lineage (that are brothers) teaching the same student and acknowledging that the student is there to di as opposed to one being the Sifu and the other acknowledging the student as a nephew would warrant the option of Da Shifu. However it is as you said not even close to being common.

The same as
Da shi xiong
er shi xiong
san shi xiong

etc...

or
Dai Sihing
Yi Sihing
Saam Sihing.

But again relatively unheard of...
 

Tensei85

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However the last 2 of the three examples are used just to clear up any misconception on my post. lol, as for Sihing's or Shi Xiong's
 

Xinglu

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I find it interesting that someone would want to be anything more than a "simple" Shifu.

I would also like to say, regarding those who have sigong as an actual "dan-type ranking": Just becasue you can doesn't mean you should, or even that it is "okay." The abuse of language and the prostitution of culture IMHO is never okay.
 

Domino

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And just to note Da shifu is more like grand master and I have seen a few take the title here in the good ole USA :ticked: BUT just as a note if you hear a Chinese martial artist from China call another Chinese martial artist from China a da shifu you best duck and cover if they are both legitimate martial artists because a fight is about to start. Because Da Sifu is an insult.

I know my sigung from my sifu, but what does 'da shifu' literally mean please?
 

mograph

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It's my understanding that "sifu" is the Cantonese pronunciation, and "shifu" (roughly pronounced "sher-fu") is the Mandarin. Yes?
 
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