Obama's aunt found in Boston Slum

[grydth]

Odd, the aunt who some would have us believe was abandoned to a life of squalor by an uncaring Obama - made a contribution to his campaign. Doesn't that say volumes about how she feels? Amazing how so many are ready to assume facts without knowing....

I personally feel that whoever chased this poor woman down, with the disgusting intent of using her against her will against her nephew, ranks about with the influenza viruses. I think this escapade says so much more about those who would exploit her than it does about Obama.

Every family - be it Noelle Bush or Billy Carter - has its oddballs and black sheep. There are many reasons why folks become estranged, why some "drop out of sight" for awhile..... those are often intensely personal, tragic reasons.... which should have been left alone.

 

[Gordon Nore]

I'd like to split some hairs here. Nowhere in the Times article -- that I could find using the search function -- is Zeituni Onyango's dwelling referred to as a "slum." That word is used in the title of this thread. There is a link on the lower-left of the page that reads: I like my Nairobi slum, says Obama's brother

The headline reads...

Found in a rundown Boston estate: Barack Obama’s aunt Zeituni Onyango

The terms, "modest," and "run-down," do appear in the article. The article itself does not characterize Obama's relations as feeling abandoned by the senator. It does say,

Aunt Zeituni and Uncle Omar are the children of Mr Obama’s grandfather Hussein Onyango Obama, by his third wife – the woman Mr Obama calls “Granny” because she raised his father. Mr Obama’s father, Barack Sr, was Onyango Obama’s son by his second wife, Akumu. That makes Zeituni and Omar a half-sister and half-brother of Mr Obama’s father, or Mr Obama’s half-aunt and half-uncle.

...which means he is barely related to them.

Another passage of this article has gone unnoticed, or, at least, unremarked-upon, in this thread:

Just across town from where Mr Obama made history as the first black president of the Harvard Law Review, some of his closest blood relatives have confronted the harshness of immigrant life in America...

...similar to the US, Canada, the UK, or other parts of the world.

My experience of poor people, particularly people who have lived in inter-generational poverty, as that they typically don't have significantly wealthy relations to turn to. It is all well and good to say that richer relatives ought to pitch in -- and let's say that they should, just for the Hell of it.

Imagine a candidate who decreed that those of means must give money from their own pockets to their less fortunate relations -- no excuses. Does that mean we lend a hand as a society only we know for sure that the person in need is not related to anyone with deeper pockets? How on earth do you mandate that? How do you legislate it or monitor it?

The "harshness of immigrant life" or impoverished life in America, Canada, the UK, or any place, will not change as long as charity is consciously advanced as an alternative to social justice -- BTW: I won't be offended if my remarks are regarded as Socialist.

Now, would Senator Obama's proposed tax hikes transform the face of poverty in America? Nope, probably not. I read an article years ago in which the author wrote, 'As expensive as it is, welfare is as cheap as it gets.' What he was saying was that a serious effort to reverse the effects of poverty, create actual jobs, train people for them, mentor them, sustain them until they can move forward, etc, is probably more costly than people are willing to pay.

 

[Tez3]

Readers of the Times I think would probably find any house that didn't have it's own deer park rundown and modest. Bear in mind it's an upper class newspaper when they describe things like this.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Gee let me think

Oh I had an aunt that was in a psychiatric institution and I meant her once (I am told) she lived over 700 miles away and from me and I was about 3 or 4 when I meant her...or at least that is what I am told

I also had a cousin that was an alcoholic and abused by 3 out of 4 of her ex-husbands... gee things are not looking good for my political career I guess

I have an ex-brother-in-law that was homeless... at one time... so I am betting there is another strike against me

Oh I also had a great or maybe great great uncle that marches with Sherman and was part of the army that burned Atlanta...

DAMN!!!! Well there goes my political career.... guess I should never run for public office because obviously I am responsible for all of that.

McCain/Obama...Obama/McCain frankly I trust neither but can we PLEASE stop looking for silliness to discredit people

And before more sillienss insues

No I do not think Obama’s aunt living in a Slum is silly that is rather sad… however I do think it is silly that Obama is some how to be held responsible.


Edit

Ever been to Boston? Ever been to South Boston or Dorchester? I have and the areas I have been in were not slums but then I was not all over Southie or Dorchester, but I know enough about it to know it was not a place I wanted to be after Dark by myself, but then that pretty much describes all of Boston. Hell a good friend of mine was half beaten to death and robbed near the Christian Science Center one night many years ago and that sure is not a slum

 

[elder999]

Ya know, this is all silly.

I'm worth more than Barack Obama. That is to say, I have more money than he does.

I have cousins and relations on my mother's side that I know well,have prayed with and danced with, that live on the Wind River Reservation. I bring them gifts, when I see them, but I'm under no obligation to see them or support them, and they're some of the poorest people in the country-average per capita annual income on the Rez is less than $5,000/year.If I were to offer a stipend of $25,000/year to my closest relations on the reservation-and I can afford to-they'd refuse it. More importantly, it would make what gifts I've made over the years less meaningful-while I've helped with college tuition, and given the occasional gift, for the most part, they want to live the live as they're living, and don't want any more support than that of my friendship and acknowledgement.

I have friends and relations on my father's side that I know well, have prayed and danced with, that live on the Shinnecock Reservation in New York. While they're not some of the poorest people in the country, well, their lifestyles don't even approach the lifestyle I'm accustomed to. They consistently refuse anything but gifts, though I've known them all my life, and spent almost all my summers with them as a child. While I've helped with college tuition, and the occasional gift, for the most part, they want to live as they're living, and don't want any more support than that of my friendship and acknowledgement.

"Friendship and acknowledgement," something most of the long list of Barack Obama's African relations lacked for the larger part of his life-through no fault of his, that I can tell-and something that some of them still do-where is the "obligation?"

I have distant relations on my father's side that I don't know well-mostly have never met, that live in Virginia and Massachussets. A great many of them, as near as I can tell, are poor-lacking not only finances, but-far more importantly, at least to me-lacking in the rich heritage that is my family's legacy-a knowlege of who they are and where they came from. When I've met them, and seen this lack, I've tried to share that heritage with them-it is theirs, after all, and not something that money or the lack of it, or college education or the lack of it, or anything else can take away, or something for me to horde- only to have it spurned or dismissed.

They are lost to me, and I have nothing to give them.

Of all the......things that have come up about and tried to be used against Brack Obama, his "treatment," or lack of contact-with relatives he barely had any reason to know, and once sought out in an effort to know who he was, and where he came from, is the most shameful, ridiculous tactic I have observed, worse even than the "secret Muslim/Manchurian Negro/closet socialist" B.S.

 

[chrispillertkd]

I see I failed to make my point entirely there . Never mind.

I'd be very interested in hearing the point of your previous post. I have no problem with people offering their political opinions, or opinion about anything, as long as they offer reasons for holding it and are open to hearing otehrs' opinions in return.

Chris, the reason why I read these threads is because I have to as part of my duties here. Historically, the 'Election' threads are the ones that have promulgated more aggrivations and RTM's than any other section of the boards - so they have a very high 'police' prescence. Today, after a particularly awful time at work, this 'copper' had had enough and 'leaked' a little on his keyboard .

Any response I make to this portion of your post will likely appear as me trying to moderate a moderator. I will say that MT is hundreds of times better than some online forums that I have seen, which was one of the reasons why I was surprised at the tenor of your previous posting.

Pax,

Chris

 

[Sukerkin]

That's okay, Chris. The point in my first post, despite my examples from real real life, was less about the specifics under discussion and more about the essential 'emptyness' of the cycle of lambasting a political candidate's every move. If a candidate truly had done something heinous or immoral then that would indeed be a subject for critical discussion but to attack everything they say and do is pointless. In my annoyance, that such a mode of discussion bears no positive fruit was what I was trying to hold up to plain sight - and failed to do so .

All I was clarifying in my second post was why I was reading the thread in the first place rather than just ignoring it.

So it's fine to disagree with me, if you so wish, when I'm acting as a Private Citizen, so to speak. If that wasn't so, those of us on Staff would never be able to post anything but warnings and nudges to ensure the good behaviour of all.

 

[celtic_crippler]

It's amusing to me that those defending Obama's in-action cite that his relatives made the beds they are now lying in and that he has no responsibitity to give them financial aid. Because, that's the same argument made by McCain supporters's against wealth redistribution! ROFL The argument's fine if it suits your purpose, eh? LOL

B.O. wants to lead the free world, but lacks the basic leadership quality of leading by example. He would force you to give more of your resources to help those that "made their own beds" as well, but doesn't seem to be willing to make that same sacrifice himself.

...that says volumes about his character.

 

[Sukerkin]

I'm not certain it's the same argument CC. Isn't one about personal 'charity' and the other about Societal Equity?

I do see what you're driving at tho' and it's an interesting connundrum.

As I said earlier, or hinted at at least, I'm relatively poor but have rich (in-law) relations, whose wealth I have done nothing to help create. I don't expect them to give me handouts if I want a new car or an extension on the house. But I do expect to get a helping hand from the government, to whom I have paid an awful lot of taxes, if I was suddenly to fall ill or lose my job.

Is that a fair way of looking at the point? Or have I lost the plot?

 

[celtic_crippler]

I'm not certain it's the same argument CC. Isn't one about personal 'charity' and the other about Societal Equity?

I do see what you're driving at tho' and it's an interesting connundrum.

As I said earlier, or hinted at at least, I'm relatively poor but have rich (in-law) relations, whose wealth I have done nothing to help create. I don't expect them to give me handouts if I want a new car or an extension on the house. But I do expect to get a helping hand from the government, to whom I have paid an awful lot of taxes, if I was suddenly to fall ill or lose my job.

Is that a fair way of looking at the point? Or have I lost the plot?

Do your wealthy relatives hold a public office? If so, are they advocating the government taking more of YOUR money (remember, you're a working-class-stiff...right?) But yet they aren't willing to give more or even any of theirs?

Forget the whole "relative" thing. It's not about that at all. It's about being a hypocrite. If you expect my average-Joe-working-class butt to sacrifice more of my hard-earned money to help out those that chose their own lot's in life, and as a result don't have as much, then you have an obligation to set an example (especially if you serve in a leadership role). Especially when you have a hell of a lot more than I do!

 

[elder999]

Do your wealthy relatives hold a public office? If so, are they advocating the government taking more of YOUR money (remember, you're a working-class-stiff...right?) But yet they aren't willing to give more or even any of theirs?

Forget the whole "relative" thing. It's not about that at all. It's about being a hypocrite. If you expect my average-Joe-working-class butt to sacrifice more of my hard-earned money to help out those that chose their own lot's in life, and as a result don't have as much, then you have an obligation to set an example (especially if you serve in a leadership role). Especially when you have a hell of a lot more than I do!

He's not being a hypocrite-he makes more, and he pays more. It's the same thing Senator McCain said years ago, actually, and that's all he's really said-according to what he says, and most independent studies, Barack Obama isn't going to raise Mr. Average working stiff, Joe the Plumber, Bob the Builder, Cal the Cop, Helen the Homemaker's taxes one bit-in fact, most of them will pay less than they would under Senator McCain's plans-or about the same. That's simply a fact, as things stand now-both plans put against each other. And that's all they are:plans. Congress is going to raise your taxes, to pay the bills for the last eight years of mismanagement, and it won't matter who's in office.

 

[MA-Caver]

Then why read threads in the U.S. Elections & Candidates section?
Pax,
Chris

As a member of this forum he has as much right to read, comment as anyone else. Doesn't matter if he's from "across the pond" or from 'round the bend. He's a Martial Artist, he's a contributor to this forum and he has an opinion.
Just-like-you.

:asian:

 

[shesulsa]

So ... have any of his relatives said he has refused to give them assistance? Have any of his relatives asked for assistance? Has he offered to them and been turned away?

Do we have any links to this? Or is this just supposition based on the fact that someone dredged up some relatives (people he apparently doesn't even know) and decides he's a hypocrite.

But Billy Carter was a moocher who tried to grasp some of his brother's glory.

I understand the corollary ... but there's just too many other things to weigh here. 1. Obama's only recently come into money and organizing and managing one's new-found wealth is a time-consuming matter, especially in this economy. 2. The man is running for president. Not only is this a sleepless, non-stop endeavor (he spent all of a few days with his dying grandmother and not without interruption) it is extremely financially demanding. He has far more money than McCain and his campaign is just about over - he'll likely be allowed by the law to keep those dollars (and will probably invest them such that he can run again in four), but should that pool be over-extended, he has a pool to add now. 3. He could be the richest damn man in the world but if family members refuse help from him, he simply cannot force money upon them in the form of a gift. Now, if wages rise as a result of his possible presidency and/or taxes for the payers in the bracket of his family go down as a result of the economy, he *has* helped them, just in an indirect, general welfare sort of way (remember the Preamble? 'promote the general welfare?').

It is very easy to convolute and twist this information into something it isn't and therein lies the problem. It is incomplete information.

Now if a relative had come forward and said s/he had to put her/his children into foster care because they were upon bad times and Barack and family had refused any kind of charity or assistance? THAT would be hypocritical of Obama ... but that's not the information we have.

And I ... well geez ... I frankly think this is trying to build a house out of sand.

Sorry.

 

[MA-Caver]

At this moment I am completely opposite of Elder999 financially speaking. I appreciate his candor in sharing that and agree with what he and several others had to say.

Here's what I have to say on the subject as one who has at this moment about $6.37 to his name... seriously....


Obama, Gates, Trump, McCain and hundreds of others don't owe their families a damn thing.

I've two older brothers, both whom earn more in a month than I do in a year. Do they owe me anything? Should they owe me anything? Should they pool their resources and send me some? One brother has 5 children and a half million dollar mortgage to pay off. Another brother has his respective mortgage and an ex-wife threatening law-suit for child support payments that he's never missed.

This is why I don't like politics. Never have. When I reached voting age I sat down and looked long and hard at the process and then watched presidential debates (occasionally VP debates too) every time they're held.
What I see are used car salesmen behind those podiums. Also I see two kids in the school yard at recess throwing mud at each other, viciously.

Each election the best man wins... excuse me, the best talker wins, and I've still earned far less than my brothers or friends. All I can hope for is that at least ONE of those candidates will keep to his promise and turn the economy around to where my life is not so much of a struggle as I try to earn more to sustain my life. Sometimes, I'm glad I'm not married so at least someone else doesn't have to struggle along with me needlessly.

I only care about what they can do as President to help my living in this country a lot better, safer and just as free as I have been for the last 47 years. I don't care how many people they slept with, how poor their families are, what flags they may have burned in the past or whatever it is that they've done ... All I care about is WHAT can/will THEY do NOW and within the next 4-8 years that they sit behind that desk! Same goes with those all those people on Capital Hill.

 

[girlbug2]

I do expect to get a helping hand from the government, to whom I have paid an awful lot of taxes, if I was suddenly to fall ill or lose my job.

Is that a fair way of looking at the point? Or have I lost the plot?

Very fair. You pay the gov't, you should expect proportional benefits. I understand that the British have a higher tax rate generally, so they should expect more government services in return.

Now the point at which conservatives disagree with liberals is, how much should be paid the government to begin with? Personally I am fine with paying the government less and keeping that extra money to invest as I see fit, so that when that "rainy day" comes I can use it to help myself...or my relatives if need be.

 

[elder999]

It's amusing to me that those defending Obama's in-action cite that his relatives made the beds they are now lying in and that he has no responsibitity to give them financial aid. Because, that's the same argument made by McCain supporters's against wealth redistribution! ROFL The argument's fine if it suits your purpose, eh? LOL .

It's worth pointing out, again, that I voted for McCain-simply because he will keep us, that is the wife and I, paying less in taxes.

Of course, we make more than $250K/yr.

I think a progressive tax is fair, and don't really have anything against it. I can certainly afford to pay more than $70k/yr. in taxes far more than someone with a family of four can afford to pay $5000/yr. out of their $40K/yr.

And, back to the relatives thing? I also have very close relations-1st cousins-on my mother's side. They don't make a lot of money. For various reasons, though, I don't like them. Not only would I not give them money, I wouldn't cross the street to piss on them if they were on fire.

 

[girlbug2]

So ... have any of his relatives said he has refused to give them assistance? Have any of his relatives asked for assistance? Has he offered to them and been turned away?

Do we have any links to this? Or is this just supposition based on the fact that someone dredged up some relatives (people he apparently doesn't even know) and decides he's a hypocrite.

.....
And I ... well geez ... I frankly think this is trying to build a house out of sand.

Sorry.

I'm a conservative, but yes, I agree.

 

[chrispillertkd]

As a member of this forum he has as much right to read, comment as anyone else. Doesn't matter if he's from "across the pond" or from 'round the bend. He's a Martial Artist, he's a contributor to this forum and he has an opinion.
Just-like-you.

:asian:

I wasn't questioning his right to read this forum. I was asking why he did so when he knows it can aggrevate him as shoud be clear from my previous posting:

Quote:
You Republican's know how you're going to vote, as do any Democrats who read this. So what do you accomplish (other than winding up an Englishman who is thousands of miles away )? It's name-calling and personal mockery dressed up as political commentary.

If you don't like getting "wound up" why read threads that have to do with politics in another country?

Pax,

Chris

 

[celtic_crippler]

You're still missing the point.

I don't owe anyone anything, if I did...then I'd pay it. By that same token, nobody owes me anything; regardless of shared genetics. Continueing to be distracted by the family tie-in only further clouds the overall issue.

There are several reasons that B.O. and J.M. are once again neck-and-neck in the polls.....one of which is the perception that B.O. is a hypocrite.

He has come across (in part due to poor Joe's innocent question) as a Socialist at the same time not willing to give any of his own wealth as the perception now is due to his poor family members.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: He's the only politician I can think of capable of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

If he did not want to appear as an elitist hypocrite, then he would cite evidence of his own sacrifices......anyone? How much $ has B.O. given and to whom? Charities? Which ones? Anybody have evidence to how much he actually pays in taxes or are you simply speculating?

And, while he may not mind the % of his income that goes to taxes and FICA, I do. 30%+ to a millionaire does not have the same impact as 30%+ to some poor guy making the average 30K per year.

 

[arnisador]

Now the point at which conservatives disagree with liberals is, how much should be paid the government to begin with? Personally I am fine with paying the government less and keeping that extra money to invest as I see fit, so that when that "rainy day" comes I can use it to help myself...or my relatives if need be.

If people did that reliably, then we could shut down Social Security for the most part. The problem is that all too many people do the "build in a flood plain then expect Uncle Sam to bail me out" thing, in a variety of circumstances. Until we're ready to start saying "No" to those people, the govt. will need the money to continue being the (retroactive) insurer of last resort.