"No Outside Game," or Another Thread About Hybrid Arts

[Martial D]

I didn't see a sweep. I saw some one giving up the standing game willingly.

Then maybe you should do a bit of BJJ The BJJ guy swept him to get top by shifting his hips and rolling him. All he had to do was post to stop it.

 

[wckf92]

All he had to do was post to stop it.

Agree...and, he could have called it gum sau

 

[JowGaWolf]

Then maybe you should do a bit of BJJ The BJJ guy swept him to get top by shifting his hips and rolling him. All he had to do was post to stop it.

I saw that but that doesn't fit my definition of a sweep. If both people are on the ground (not standing) then sweeps can't exist. I hope I'll get to see the WC answer for being on the bottom.

 

[Juany118]

I saw that but that doesn't fit my definition of a sweep. If both people are on the ground (not standing) then sweeps can't exist. I hope I'll get to see the WC answer for being on the bottom.

Well I would suspect, if he was allowed to use all of his took a biu sau to the eyes would help him recover .

 

[Martial D]

I saw that but that doesn't fit my definition of a sweep. If both people are on the ground (not standing) then sweeps can't exist. I hope I'll get to see the WC answer for being on the bottom.

That's what a sweep is in BJJ (and judo and jjj etc).

Taking someone's base away to get them off you.

 

[geezer]

That's what a sweep is in BJJ (and judo and jjj etc).
Taking someone's base away to get them off you.

Thanks for clarifying. Like many stand-up fighters I think of standing sweeps, taking somebody's feet out from under them.

 

[Martial D]

Thanks for clarifying. Like many stand-up fighters I think of standing sweeps, taking somebody's feet out from under them.

Same idea, just from the ground.

 

[Bino TWT]

hope I'll get to see the WC answer for being on the bottom.

The WC answer was I was just tired, sore, and out of gas lol. I did what I came to do, and I was exhausted. I was working as a bouncer at a niteclub, and I hadn't even been to sleep yet when I went and did this 5 hour seminar. And this was the second really good free roll with this guy. I was done before this one, but I realized my daughter was taking pics instead of filming so we had to go again. You see the sacrifices I make for you guy? lmao.

I will say this too, those guys train hard and their cardio is amazing. This made me realize just how bad my cardio had declined since I tore the ligaments in my knees. I had knee braces on both legs when this was filmed and didn't really have any business out there anyway lol. I drown myself in Dit Da Jow for a week after that.

But I did what I came to do and proved to myself what I wanted to see, so mission accomplished.

 

[karatejj]

The WC answer was I was just tired, sore, and out of gas lol. I did what I came to do, and I was exhausted. I was working as a bouncer at a niteclub, and I hadn't even been to sleep yet when I went and did this 5 hour seminar. And this was the second really good free roll with this guy. I was done before this one, but I realized my daughter was taking pics instead of filming so we had to go again. You see the sacrifices I make for you guy? lmao.

I will say this too, those guys train hard and their cardio is amazing. This made me realize just how bad my cardio had declined since I tore the ligaments in my knees. I had knee braces on both legs when this was filmed and didn't really have any business out there anyway lol. I drown myself in Dit Da Jow for a week after that.

But I did what I came to do and proved to myself what I wanted to see, so mission accomplished.

Awesome movez big dude!

 

[drop bear]

Lol if we see it pop up in MMA then we will know where it came from. Lol

Hand fighting, basing and striking from inside guard does tend to pop up in MMA. So does grinding the forearm into the face.

I have no real issue with the inside guard tactics used. They are good tactics. (Exept for that foot going forwards one time. That could have ended him)

 

[drop bear]

I saw that but that doesn't fit my definition of a sweep. If both people are on the ground (not standing) then sweeps can't exist. I hope I'll get to see the WC answer for being on the bottom.

hip bump sweep.

There is the answer for being on the bottom. If someone wants to call it something Chinese and make it the wing cun answer go nuts.

If you are in guard on the bottom you do a technical stand up.

If you are in side control or half guard you do a hip escape into turtle and stand up.

If you are in mount. Knee push to half guard. Hip escape to turtle. Then stand up.

Basic high percentage escapes that should pretty much take you as far as you need your ground game to go.

 

[drop bear]

Well I would suspect, if he was allowed to use all of his took a biu sau to the eyes would help him recover .

Yes but if the guy on the bottom had two knives..............

Which is pretty much why you don't play that game. Unless you need the ego bolster.

 

[Juany118]

Yes but if the guy on the bottom had two knives..............

Which is pretty much why you don't play that game. Unless you need the ego bolster.

Well the context, as I read it, was "how would a Wing Chun guy deal with a situation where they have been mounted?" If we are talking about what my opinion of cross training is, where both parties can use all their tools they poking to the eyes, palm strikes to the nose of TMJ etc, are valid techniques.

I only say this because to me there are two types of cross training.

1. I am learning BJJ so I can integrate things into my WC.
2. I am testing how my WC can deal with BJJ on it's own and that means being able to use all my tools.

 

[drop bear]

Well the context, as I read it, was "how would a Wing Chun guy deal with a situation where they have been mounted?" If we are talking about what my opinion of cross training is, where both parties can use all their tools they poking to the eyes, palm strikes to the nose of TMJ etc, are valid techniques.

I only say this because to me there are two types of cross training.

1. I am learning BJJ so I can integrate things into my WC.
2. I am testing how my WC can deal with BJJ on it's own and that means being able to use all my tools.

OK then go out and roll with eye gouges and come back to me.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

OK then go out and roll with eye gouges and come back to me.

I have rolled with "eye touches", and it did change the other guy's game. If he was good enough, it didn't change the outcome, but if he had a moderate advantage, but hadn't played to protect his eyes before, it bought me what I needed to get away from his game and into mine. It's pretty easy to build a habit of dealing with that, though. A few times rolling with anything close to "eye touch" rules will cause simple adjustments that take away that advantage, since the defenses are close to strike and head control defenses.

 

[Juany118]

OK then go out and roll with eye gouges and come back to me.

There is a difference between an eye gouge and a simple touch/thrust. You can go at the eyes FAST but with control, kinda like a serious version of the "Three stooges" eye poke. It's more about being a painful, but not debilitating, distraction that results in what @gpseymour notes, but also as he notes, because it is not an all out strike, once you are prepared for it and know how to deal with it, it's not overly difficult to deal with BUT that is the point, imo, of my "cross training" number 2.

In that case the WC guy will learn that "yeah this sudden but little damaging tactic will work against the unprepared". The BJJ guy overtime learns to be prepared. The WC guy then learns not to be overly reliant on it. Everyone learns something!

PS, unless you are practicing Iron palm training doing a thrust that is more than a "touch" will get your fingers jammed or broken fairly easily if the opponent tucks his jaw right and you hit his forehead. I know two people that practice Iron palm enough that they can slam their finger tips into their own foreheads repeatedly and you can hear the impact across the training room floor. I don't even want to think of what they could do thrusting on any soft portion of the body tbh.

 

[JowGaWolf]

That's what a sweep is in BJJ (and judo and jjj etc).

Taking someone's base away to get them off you.

oh I didn't know that BJJ and Judo defined it that way. I'll keep that in mind from now on as it gives me a better understanding of the system perception of what they try to accomplish.

 

[JowGaWolf]

The WC answer was I was just tired, sore, and out of gas lol. I did what I came to do, and I was exhausted. I was working as a bouncer at a niteclub, and I hadn't even been to sleep yet when I went and did this 5 hour seminar. And this was the second really good free roll with this guy. I was done before this one, but I realized my daughter was taking pics instead of filming so we had to go again. You see the sacrifices I make for you guy? lmao.

I will say this too, those guys train hard and their cardio is amazing. This made me realize just how bad my cardio had declined since I tore the ligaments in my knees. I had knee braces on both legs when this was filmed and didn't really have any business out there anyway lol. I drown myself in Dit Da Jow for a week after that.

But I did what I came to do and proved to myself what I wanted to see, so mission accomplished.

Your realization about your cardio is the same way I learned about mine. I originally thought I had good cardio because normally I only compare myself with how long I last against my fellow classmates. I went to another school and discovered a new meaning to the word exhausted. Now I can't shake that feeling that I had years ago and I'm always seeking ways to push my cardio and maintain it. It's like I'm afraid of being out of breath like that again. It was the realization that once the gas is gone then there's nothing that can be done about the beating on the horizon. It wasn't a good feeling for me to be exhausted like that.

 

[JowGaWolf]

You see the sacrifices I make for you guy? lmao.

lol.. Much appreciated. Got anymore lol. I've seen other WC people try to do the ground thing but it wasn't as practical.

 

[JowGaWolf]

If you are in guard on the bottom you do a technical stand up.

I'm familiar with that technique. We use a different leg, but it's the same concept.

2. I am testing how my WC can deal with BJJ on it's own and that means being able to use all my tools.

I like this one better because it requires the student to dig deeper into the things he or she already knows. Just from watching the WC video, I'm starting to dig deeper into Jow Ga short range techniques to see if any of them can be applied in a similar situation. Generating short range power while in a position like that may be more devastating than the Ground and Pound bombs that people throw in MMA. Pulling the arm way back to throw power gives the person in the body time. Being able to punch someone with power from a few inches is just going to be a series of surprises that one won't be able to see coming. Best hope would be to sense similar to Chi Sao (sp?) or Tai Chi Push hands.

Time for me to see if I can do a ground drill that covers that.