No more tasers on restrained persons in OC, So Cal

[shesulsa]

Concerns over the Taser policy escalated after The Register obtained surveillance videos showing jail deputies using a stun gun on a man strapped to a chair and on a female inmate being held down on the floor. Both inmates appeared subdued and in pain. More criticism came when rookie deputies at Theo Lacy Jail in Orange were accused in unsubstantiated reports of shooting Taser darts at a cat.


The grand jury report noted that Tasers had been used on 437 inmates in the Orange County Jail System between 2004 and 2007.


"There is major debate amongst experts as to whether the use of the Taser causes heart failure or death," the grand jury wrote, advising the sheriff's department to organize a panel to research whether stun guns are safe enough for routine use.

FULL ARTICLE

I'm rather amazed that policy allowed the use of tasers on restrained persons.

Thoughts?

 

[celtic_crippler]

Thoughts?

The cops that did it should be fired. The ones that used it on the cats should be fired and then shot.

 

[Big Don]

The alternative being to use physical force (striking/mace/nightstick)?
Never having been tased, I can't be sure, but, I think I'd prefer it to a full on "tuning up"...

 

[elder999]

The alternative being to use physical force (striking/mace/nightstick)?
Never having been tased, I can't be sure, but, I think I'd prefer it to a full on "tuning up"...

I've been tased (volunteered for a demonstration-stupid!) it's....not good.

Tazing ruined my whole day.

I'd rather be tased than pepper sprayed or maced, though-I've got respiratory issues....pepper spray not good.....

And I might prefer tazing to a "tune up," though it would depend upon the "tuners."

In any case, I'd expect to not have to worry about any of it, being in the capable and professional hands of well-trained and presumably law-abiding public servants, and under restraint(strapped to a chair?!) as well.

....

 

[Ninjamom]

The cops that did it should be fired. The ones that used it on the cats should be fired and then shot.

I am curious on why you favor firing them then shooting them, as opposed to shooting them first, then firing them (or perhaps torturing, shooting, then firing them). Could you please provide more data on your proposal? Thanks.

The alternative being to use physical force (striking/mace/nightstick)?
Never having been tased, I can't be sure, but, I think I'd prefer it to a full on "tuning up"...

Seriously, I think it's ridiculous to consider either on a restrained prisoner.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

So lemme get this straight---These two are using a weapon intended to make someone unable to fight so they can be subdued----on subjects who are already subdued and thus can't fight?

 

[Big Don]

I've been tased (volunteered for a demonstration-stupid!) it's....not good.

I've thought about that, but, have, thus far, chickened out

Tazing ruined my whole day.

That is what I am afraid of...

I'd rather be tased than pepper sprayed or maced, though-I've got respiratory issues....pepper spray not good.....

I had the basic training tear gas experience, and 18 years (Holy crap! I got old) later it is still very memorable

And I might prefer tazing to a "tune up," though it would depend upon the "tuners."

Kinda like not knowing how many of them it would take to whip you, but, knowing how many they were gonna use?

In any case, I'd expect to not have to worry about any of it, being in the capable and professional hands of well-trained and presumably law-abiding public servants, and under restraint(strapped to a chair?!) as well.

....

There is a big difference between being handcuffed, even handcuffed and shackled, to being fully restrained. A fully restrained person is incapable of movement, one handcuffed, not so much, every few months there is a news story somewhere about a handcuffed person escaping, or escaping and driving off with the police car, etc. Tase them? Abso-friggin-lutely!
Anyone who attacks or attempts to attack a LEO, 99.999% of the time, deserves what they get.

 

[Ray]

The ones that used it on the cats should be fired and then shot.

I quite agree. They should have used real ammo on the cats. BTW: Do you know how to make a cat go "woof" and stay? (sigh, I'm such a bad person)

 

[teekin]

Ray,
Not Funny! :disgust::rpo: Unless you have had to patch them back together when some moron has done just as you suggested can I ask to please refrain from making such "jokes".
Lori M

 

[MJS]

If the person is already restrained, one would think that the taser would no longer be needed. If the person physically can no longer move, then it should not be used. Now, if the person is handcuffed, and while being brought to or from the police car, starts struggling, kicking, etc., I'd be more inclined to say it would be justified in using it again.

As for whether or not it causes death...thats usually the first thing that people say, yet I wonder how many of those people know whether or not the suspect had a medical condition or was under the influence of drugs. Ex: Did the taser cause the suspect to have a heart attack or did he have the attack because of a pre-existing condition?

And here are some stats. This link gives more stats as well.

 

[Drac]

The ones that used it on the cats should be fired and then shot.

Please let ME pull the trigger...

 

[Drac]

I quite agree. They should have used real ammo on the cats. BTW: Do you know how to make a cat go "woof" and stay? (sigh, I'm such a bad person)

Not funny...:whip::2xBird2:

 

[Makalakumu]

I had to be tazed as part of a security job I work. Not fun. It feels as if your entire body has just seized in a muscle cramp. Yeah, it goes away as soon as you stop riding the lightning, but the lingering feeling, the twitches and tiredness stick with you all day.

I got real cramps in the arches of my feet and in my back the following night after being tazed. Not interested in having it done EVER again.

Now, tazing a restrained individual. Unless the person really isn't "restrained" I don't see any reason why a force multiplyer needs to be introduced. For many cops, tazers have become the be all end all tool. I think laws like this and other guidelines are good mandates from the people who pay the cops salery.

IMHO, its not appropriate.

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

hhmmm... Interesting thoughts here, but tell me. If the officers had had the opportunity, should this restrained guy maybe allowed to get tased:

MINNEAPOLIS — After being accused of leading police on a high-speed chase through the west metro and into a Minneapolis neighborhood this spring, a Plymouth man hit the road again last week. But this time he was behind the wheel of an unmarked police car, which he allegedly commandeered even though he was handcuffed.

Michael E. Rekow, 37, has been charged in Dakota County District Court with felony counts of motor vehicle theft, fleeing a police officer and identity theft after he stole a police car right in front of officers and led them on another chase -- this time across the south metro.

Last week, Inver Grove Heights police officers noticed a vehicle parked near a dumpster in a parking lot. Rekow was standing near the open driver's door and ducked when he saw the headlights of the unmarked squad car.
Officers approached Rekow, who told them he was waiting for a friend. After realizing that there were warrants out for Rekow's arrest, the officers handcuffed him and placed him in the back of the unmarked squad car.
A woman was sleeping in the back of the vehicle Rekow had been standing next to, and while officers were talking to her, they heard loud screeching tires and looked up to see Rekow peeling out in the unmarked squad car, the charges say.

Chase of several miles
He took off speeding and drove onto Interstate 494. The chase continued for several miles until the unmarked squad car hit so-called stop sticks placed on the road. When Rekow got out of the car, he was still wearing handcuffs. He is being held in the Dakota County jail on $5,000 bail.

The chase Rekow prompted this May began after a Plymouth police officer tried to pull him over in a stolen SUV. Rekow drove through New Hope, Crystal, Golden Valley, St. Louis Park, Edina and into Minneapolis at speeds of up to 100 miles per hour before he crashed into a parked car in the Bryant neighborhood. In that case, he was charged with fleeing a police officer. He was previously wanted on felony warrants related to vehicle and credit card theft.

And if the opportunity had presented itself, had they not rightly killed him, would you all feel that this man might have been eligible for a good tasing:

By Andrew Blankstein and Richard Winton
The Los Angeles Times

LOS ANGELES, Calif. — A man who was handcuffed by police during an early morning arrest Monday in the Westlake district of Los Angeles managed to reach for a gun hidden in his pants and opened fire, seriously wounding a veteran officer, according to several LAPD sources familiar with the investigation.

Rampart Division training officer Andy Taylor, 37, was rushed by ambulance to Cedars-Sinai Medical Center, where he was treated for a gunshot wound to the shoulder and chest......

I am continually amazed by those that think handcuffed people are not a threat.

 

[MJS]

hhmmm... Interesting thoughts here, but tell me. If the officers had had the opportunity, should this restrained guy maybe allowed to get tased:



And if the opportunity had presented itself, had they not rightly killed him, would you all feel that this man might have been eligible for a good tasing:




I am continually amazed by those that think handcuffed people are not a threat.

In the cases that you mention, I would say yes, a taser would be justified. In my last post, I commented on this very thing.

 

[Makalakumu]

That's why I put quotation marks around restrained. Anyone who has ever really tried to restrain someone knows that its easier said then done. That said, I've seen videos and read about cases where people are being tazed while held down by half a dozen cops or more. Who knows what happened, but it looks bad.

On the whole though, I would say, hands down, getting tazed is "probably" better then getting shot.

maunakumu

PS - I put probably in quotes because I do not know what its like to be shot and I'd like to keep it that way.

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

All use-of-force looks bad. There is no way around that.

And my post was directed at you. More of a general statement.

 

[Makalakumu]

All use-of-force looks bad. There is no way around that.

And my post was directed at you. More of a general statement.

Think about this politically. Cops don't exist in a vacuum and, ultimately, their bosses the those who elect the people who run the show. There are certain uses of force that look worse then others.

1. cops shooting a restrained person.
2. cops beating a restrained person.
3. cops tazing a restrained person.
4. cops hauling a restrained person to jail.

I would much rather see and hear about #4 then any of the others and I, as a voter, would like to vote for candidates that felt that way also.

We are in a time period right now where cops feel like the tazer is the magic bullet, that they can use it for everything. That has to change and it is changing.

I guess, the bottom line is this, being a cop is a political job. Your mandate changes based on the will of the people. If a cop starts to buck that system too much and demand too much power for whatever reason, then they don't deserve to serve and protect.

We don't allow the shooting of restrained victims. We don't allow the beating of restrained victims. We shouldn't allow the tazing of restrained victims.

After being tazed once, I would do anything a cop wanted, say anything, in order to not be tazed again. If I'm being held down and tazed into complience of any kind, that's not policework.

That's torture.

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

Think about this politically. Cops don't exist in a vacuum and, ultimately, their bosses the those who elect the people who run the show. There are certain uses of force that look worse then others.

1. cops shooting a restrained person.
2. cops beating a restrained person.
3. cops tazing a restrained person.
4. cops hauling a restrained person to jail.

I would much rather see and hear about #4 then any of the others and I, as a voter, would like to vote for candidates that felt that way also.

We are in a time period right now where cops feel like the tazer is the magic bullet, that they can use it for everything. That has to change and it is changing.

I guess, the bottom line is this, being a cop is a political job. Your mandate changes based on the will of the people. If a cop starts to buck that system too much and demand too much power for whatever reason, then they don't deserve to serve and protect.

We don't allow the shooting of restrained victims. We don't allow the beating of restrained victims. We shouldn't allow the tazing of restrained victims.

After being tazed once, I would do anything a cop wanted, say anything, in order to not be tazed again. If I'm being held down and tazed into complience of any kind, that's not policework.

That's torture.

Seeing as how I am not quite sure of your definition of restrained person, as you have yet to define it.

And for what do you think a taser is used. It is to cause someone to submit to the authority of the police. This means that if someone is resisting, it may be justified to use a taser on them, whether they are restrained or not.

And as soon as you start to make unrealistic demand on the ability of police officers to defend themselves, then that is when you stop having police.

 

[elder999]

Seeing as how I am not quite sure of your definition of restrained person, as you have yet to define it.

And for what do you think a taser is used. It is to cause someone to submit to the authority of the police. This means that if someone is resisting, it may be justified to use a taser on them, whether they are restrained or not.

And as soon as you start to make unrealistic demand on the ability of police officers to defend themselves, then that is when you stop having police.

In context, then, let's look at the original post, where the police tased a person who was strapped to a chair.

'zat "restrained" enough for ya?