New to Karate

[Hagakure]

Hi all,

I've studied a variety of MA in the past, Wing Chun, Ju jutsu, but never Karate. There's a class not too far from me, the Sensai seems to be a nice guy, helpful, informative, the classes seem to contain a mix of kata, sparring and then a combination of them in a self defence capacity. With all MA, I'm interested in their traditions and the little gems that one can use to get out of a scrape, or better yet, avoiding getting into one in the first place.

I'm informed that the style blends both Shotokan and Goju-Ryu. I've tried doing a little research on them, but sometimes the material seems.... contradictory? So, could anyone kindly enlighten me as to their orgins, what to expect, are they hard/soft as I might recognise from CMA, Okinwan or Japanese, or does that even matter?

I've decided to cross train in ju jutsu also, as my old Wing Chun class is too far away for me now that I've moved. Onwards and upwards, a new MA to learn, the start of a new adventure.

Cheers,


H

 

[terryl965]

Best of luck to you :asian:

 

[jarrod]

given the options, i vote for "doesn't even matter".

what style/s of jujitsu will you be adding?

jf

 

[tshadowchaser]

I may have missed it but what system of Karate is it your looking at

 

[Hagakure]

I may have missed it but what system of Karate is it your looking at

The club states that it is a blend of Shotokan and Goju-ryu, so a hybrid of both I'd imagine. I'm curious about the "effectiveness" of them, which I understand is almost a rhetorical question, as, how do you assess the "effectiveness" of a given MA? I guess I'm interested in the views of those who've spent time training in them, citing the plusses and negatives of them both. Eyes wide open kinda thing.

The ju-jutsu is also a blend, again, the club mention that it is a little of Hontai Yo Shin Ryu I, Yuko Ryu, Myo Shin Ryu Tai Jitsu, Aiki Jutsu etc. The only true style being Myo Shin Ryu though. As I said though, coming from a CMA background, it's tricky to pick up what this means immediately.

The classes seem pretty good, blend a lot of things, there's more emphasis on kicks, grappling, weapons defences and padded sparring. Although my old Wing Chun class was far more intense in one to one fighting, without pads too, however, there was no grappling, kicks (an important part of any inventory in my book) weren't often practiced, and zip against weapons. The plusses were that it was incredibly aggressive at getting the first strikes in, first, fastest and hardest, and the conditioning was harsh (which I think put a lot of people off, but I loved!), the logic of my old sifu being that when trouble occurs, the intial bodily response is to dump a shed load of adrenaline into the system, so if you can fight when your arms feel like lead, then "good on ya!" kinda thing.

 

[Grenadier]

The club states that it is a blend of Shotokan and Goju-ryu, so a hybrid of both I'd imagine. I'm curious about the "effectiveness" of them, which I understand is almost a rhetorical question, as, how do you assess the "effectiveness" of a given MA? I guess I'm interested in the views of those who've spent time training in them, citing the plusses and negatives of them both. Eyes wide open kinda thing.

It need not be contradictory. After all, there are only so many ways that a human body can properly throw a punch, a kick, a block, or a throw, and any good system of martial arts will significantly overlap with other similarly good systems.

Any Karate system can be effective, as long as the instructor is giving proper instruction.

There's nothing wrong with a hybrid system. After all, the one that I study is based on Wado Ryu, but with much of the hard striking from Shotokan added back in as a heavier emphasis. Since I had trained in Shotokan Karate before, the transition to this school from my previous one (Shuri Ryu) was a smooth one.

Let your eyes be the ultimate judge. Since you already have a significant amount of experience, you can trust your instincts, as to whether or not this school will be good for you.

 

[arnisador]

You'll have quite a background! Good luck.

 

[Hagakure]

Let your eyes be the ultimate judge. Since you already have a significant amount of experience, you can trust your instincts, as to whether or not this school will be good for you.

I guess that's what it boils down to in the main. Trusting your instints... half the battle. I'm convinced about the classes, I'm wondering whether I can fit more training in too...

I'm still nonethewiser as to the origins of both Shotokan and Goju-ryu? Okinawan, Japanese? Understood the point that it's not important, but just for understanding the background. This is what I was referring to when I said some of the reports I'd read were contradictory.

 

[SFC JeffJ]

I have a friend/instrucor who does both Shotokan and Goju. He blends the two very effectivly.

One thing to look for is Bunkai, the breaking down the forms too self defene movements.
You probably won't do that from the start, but watch and see if the higher ranks do that.

 

[Hagakure]

I have a friend/instrucor who does both Shotokan and Goju. He blends the two very effectivly.

One thing to look for is Bunkai, the breaking down the forms too self defene movements.
You probably won't do that from the start, but watch and see if the higher ranks do that.

This is what I'm really looking forward to. It's an adventure starting a new art, I'm used to knowing a decent amount about what I'm studying, but taking it back to basics is quite an eye opener!

Cheers,

H

 

[jarrod]

i'm positive on this, but i'll tell you what i think is correct & if i'm wrong someone else can correct me.

karate came to okinawa from china. gichen funakoshi introduced karate into the japanese education system making it known throughout japan. this was the founding of shotokan karate, & is the grandaddy of most modern karate styles. funakoshi sometimes wrote under the assumed name of "shoto" which means "pine-waves". so "shotokan" means "pine-wave's hall".

i'll let someone else fill you in on goju, but i think there are two varieties of goju; okinawan & japanese. at least that's what i've been told. i took okinawan goju for a month or two while i was trying out schools once, & it seemed softer than shotokan & more similar to what i think of as kung fu or at least soft style cma. but then i visited another goju school that looked pretty much like shotokan.

i don't know much about the jujitsu styles you mentioned as i have primarily done japanese/american hybrid jujitsu styles, & i'm guessing the ones you listed are classical. but the classes sound good!

have fun,

jf

 

[arnisador]

karate came to okinawa from china. gichen funakoshi introduced karate into the japanese education system making it known throughout japan. this was the founding of shotokan karate, & is the grandaddy of most modern karate styles. funakoshi sometimes wrote under the assumed name of "shoto" which means "pine-waves". so "shotokan" means "pine-wave's hall".

i'll let someone else fill you in on goju, but i think there are two varieties of goju; okinawan & japanese. at least that's what i've been told. i took okinawan goju for a month or two while i was trying out schools once, & it seemed softer than shotokan & more similar to what i think of as kung fu or at least soft style cma. but then i visited another goju school that looked pretty much like shotokan.

Yup, that's pretty much how it happened! Okinawan karate isn't pure CMA but it's mostly Southern Chinese kung fu. Gichen Funakoshi wrote poetry as "Shoto" and hence the name.

There is at least Okinawan and Japanese Goju and the former is indeed softer but not by a great deal, I'd say--it's no longer overtly reminiscent of CMA but if you look more closely the roots are easy to see. There's also American Goju that's fairly popular.

I prefer Okinawan karate to Japanese as a rule, but that's a personal thing.

 

[Hagakure]

Yup, that's pretty much how it happened! Okinawan karate isn't pure CMA but it's mostly Southern Chinese kung fu. Gichen Funakoshi wrote poetry as "Shoto" and hence the name.

There is at least Okinawan and Japanese Goju and the former is indeed softer but not by a great deal, I'd say--it's no longer overtly reminiscent of CMA but if you look more closely the roots are easy to see. There's also American Goju that's fairly popular.

I prefer Okinawan karate to Japanese as a rule, but that's a personal thing.

See, there's part of what I'm not getting. I've heard some say that Japanese Karate is more sport orientated, and less self defence orientated. Now. I'm not saying this is true, I've already confessed to being a novice, if it isn't the case, what are the main differences? Forgive me, I'm asking you to explain something that may well only be possible through experience.

 

[arnisador]

It varies from style to style and instructor to instructor, but as a rule Japanese styles have deeper stances, fewer open-hand techniques, strongly emphasize strikes, and are more linear with an emphasis on power and greater range; Okinawan styles have higher and more forward-facing stances, more open-hand techniques, have a greater emphasis on (limited) standing grappling techniques, and are more circular with a greater hard/soft balance and closer range. Okinawan styles often only use low kicks while Japanese styles may also include high kicks.

For me, I find the Okinawan arts more interesting because they retain more of the kung fu feel, and better for self-defense with the more mobile stances and closer range and basic grappling/locking. Others like the power and range of the Japanese styles.

Again, there are Japanese and Okinawan arts that are exceptions to what I've said above!

 

[Hagakure]

It varies from style to style and instructor to instructor, but as a rule Japanese styles have deeper stances, fewer open-hand techniques, strongly emphasize strikes, and are more linear with an emphasis on power and greater range; Okinawan styles have higher and more forward-facing stances, more open-hand techniques, have a greater emphasis on (limited) standing grappling techniques, and are more circular with a greater hard/soft balance and closer range. Okinawan styles often only use low kicks while Japanese styles may also include high kicks.

For me, I find the Okinawan arts more interesting because they retain more of the kung fu feel, and better for self-defense with the more mobile stances and closer range and basic grappling/locking. Others like the power and range of the Japanese styles.

Again, there are Japanese and Okinawan arts that are exceptions to what I've said above!

I see. I had an inkling that the differences would be along those lines, but wasn't sure. Gives me a real buzz learning something from new, the research, the start up. First class in the next week, hopefully by the end of the weekend.

 

[twendkata71]

the Goju aspects would complement your Wing chun training, the styles have similarities. My philosophy is learn what you can when you can. And learn as much as you can.

 

[Hagakure]

the Goju aspects would complement your Wing chun training, the styles have similarities. My philosophy is learn what you can when you can. And learn as much as you can.

A good philosophy I'd say. I'd honestly not thought about whether it'd complement the Wing Chun either. Wonder what similarities there'll be.

 

[dancingalone]

Sticky hands is practiced much more (and likely on a more sophisticated level) within wing chun than goju-ryu karate. I always enjoyed kakie practice in the dojo, and now that I am a teacher I expose even my kyu rank students to it. An understanding of kakie is required before you can really hope to move onto the locking applications within karate.

 

[Hagakure]

Sticky hands is practiced much more (and likely on a more sophisticated level) within wing chun than goju-ryu karate. I always enjoyed kakie practice in the dojo, and now that I am a teacher I expose even my kyu rank students to it. An understanding of kakie is required before you can really hope to move onto the locking applications within karate.

Kakie? Is that the equivalent of sticky hands within Goju Ryu? Sticky hands is a fantastic exercise/application I'd recommend if for all.

I'm guessing the punching style within Wing Chun is going to be completely different to Karate. Will need to get used to that. :S

 

[jarrod]

Kakie? Is that the equivalent of sticky hands within Goju Ryu? Sticky hands is a fantastic exercise/application I'd recommend if for all.

I'm guessing the punching style within Wing Chun is going to be completely different to Karate. Will need to get used to that. :S

sticky hands is my favorite drill from the handful of CMA that i dabbled in. i make some of my grapplers do it if they are having a hard time learning to relax.

i think okinawan goju made fairly frequent use of the vertical fist, so it may not be that different.

jf