new student - scott teague's academy

[kravi]

I'm a prospective student. About 1 minute from my house is Scott Teague's Academy of Martial Arts. I'm looking for any feedback.

1. I love the fact, off the bat, that I didn't see the word ninjutsu advertised anywhere on the website (or in the dojo) - in fact, I thought it was more of a karate dojo when I saw it. I'm old enough that the thought of being associated with black pajama clad ninjers was a little disturbing. I'm also old enough to accept ninjutsu as a legitimate art - I just don't feel comfortable telling neighbors/friends that I study ninjutsu due to weird associations (which I had too until reading more about it).

2. I'm interested in martial arts. I don't really care about what style, as long as it is reasonably legitimate. The convenience of a school and the instructor are more important to me.

3. I like martial arts for their own sakes. I'm not looking to be a ninja, a street fighter, or a commando. I like the physical discipline, I like working up a sweat, and I like beating the stuffing out of my heavy bag in the basement. I've studied kenpo, tae kwan do, and hapkido in my youth. All were fulfilling in their own way.

4. There is also a dojo down the street for Tae Kwan Do and MMA, and the instructor also seems dedicated and excellent. But MMA is a bit too much of a sport, and Tae Kwan Do seems very focused on striking and is less generalist. I am not looking to rock anybody's house, but the idea of a spread of study and generalization is very appealing - hence the attraction (once I did my homework) to Jinenkan.

So any feedback anyone could offer would be nice. All I know is that Scott Teague is an instructor of the Jinenkan style (and have done enough reading on this forum to understand the basics of the 3 X-kans).

Cheers!

--kravi

EDIT: Grammar and syntax.

 

[Bruno@MT]

They may not advertise ninjutsu, but they do use the 'nin' kanji as the centerpiece of the logo

That said, from the site you can see that Scott still operates under Manaka Sensei. Looking at the jinenkan website, you can see that he is indeed listed there as one of the official Jinenkan dojo-cho.

If that dojo is indeed just 1 minute from your house, then you are one of the lucky ones (like me) who live very close to a legit ninpo dojo, and if you are considering martial arts, it would be a great place to join I guess.

 

[xJOHNx]

If you don't like to call it Ninjutsu, call it kobudo

Good luck with it! I don't know what kind of feedback you want except that Jinenkan is my main system as well

 

[kravi]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I guess to be honest, I was just looking for some reassurance. I still find I have a lack of comfort level with anything called ninjutsu (not to mention ninjitsu ).

My homework, which I inevitably do whenever I start something new, also showed me repeated incidences of *senior* students et al getting spanked in competitions. That wasn't a big turn-on either. It almost implied that even the *real* ninjutsu just wasn't an effective martial art.

But I have the feeling I'm provoking something here, and I don't want to. Just reassure me that it is worth my time and energy, that studying it will help me grow, and that I won't be making myself a laughing stock or teaching myself something that is ineffective should I ever get in another bar fight.

--kravi

 

[xJOHNx]

From my humble experience, the youtube fights
-all include guys who have done no conditioning at all vs martial artists that are advocates of conditioning.
- I don't run around in the street in plain boxers with gloves. So hip throws versus someone with clothes on are pretty easy and straight forward. Not to mention concrete doesn't land soft.

Try it out I would say

 

[kravi]

From my humble experience, the youtube fights
-all include guys who have done no conditioning at all vs martial artists that are advocates of conditioning.
- I don't run around in the street in plain boxers with gloves. So hip throws versus someone with clothes on are pretty easy and straight forward. Not to mention concrete doesn't land soft.

Try it out I would say

Must confess, haven't seen any youtube fights. I've only caught references here and on other sites about those fights. And tournaments. And really lots of situations where people with variety of MA backgrounds come to compete. Not once did I hear anything complimentary about ninjutsu in practice.

Hopefully it is because most of the people who were, uhm, giving bad impressions were ninjitsu students or ninjers, but...

My curiousity is there. I hope I'm not alienating y'all with *negativity*. I'm not hostile, just healthily skeptical (I hope) and could use some reassurance.

--kravi

 

[Chris Parker]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I guess to be honest, I was just looking for some reassurance. I still find I have a lack of comfort level with anything called ninjutsu (not to mention ninjitsu ).

My homework, which I inevitably do whenever I start something new, also showed me repeated incidences of *senior* students et al getting spanked in competitions. That wasn't a big turn-on either. It almost implied that even the *real* ninjutsu just wasn't an effective martial art.

But I have the feeling I'm provoking something here, and I don't want to. Just reassure me that it is worth my time and energy, that studying it will help me grow, and that I won't be making myself a laughing stock or teaching myself something that is ineffective should I ever get in another bar fight.

--kravi

Must confess, haven't seen any youtube fights. I've only caught references here and on other sites about those fights. And tournaments. And really lots of situations where people with variety of MA backgrounds come to compete. Not once did I hear anything complimentary about ninjutsu in practice.

Hopefully it is because most of the people who were, uhm, giving bad impressions were ninjitsu students or ninjers, but...

My curiousity is there. I hope I'm not alienating y'all with *negativity*. I'm not hostile, just healthily skeptical (I hope) and could use some reassurance.

--kravi

The thing to coem to terms with is that "effective" will mean different things to different people (and different arts), and competition is only one method of defining that. And when it comes to Ninjutsu systems, there is no competitive aspect whatsoever. In fact, when it comes to our systems, we tend to do what we can to avoid any area where the other person is strong, so we would avoid competing with someone who trains for competition, as we would lose.

A good case in point from recent events would be the match between James "Light's Out" Toney (an ex pro-boxer) and Randy Couture (MMA), in an MMA match. Both competitors come from a competitive background, but it was an MMA match, under MMA rules, in an MMA environment, with MMA equipment (gloves etc), and so on, so naturally, Randy won. This in no way invalidated Toney's training, skill, expertise, or anything else, just that the entire set-up was for MMA. Same goes with any Ninjutsu practitioner going into competition, as that is not anything we train for, so is no indication of quality/effectiveness, or anything similar, really.

The big question is what you want to get out of the training, and what you classify as "effective". If it's competition, and competitive training, then Ninjutsu isn't for you. And remember that good in competition is in no way indicitive of good for anything else.

 

[Muawijhe]

In fact, when it comes to our systems, we tend to do what we can to avoid any area where the other person is strong...

Not wanting to speak for Mr. Parker, but I find this part needs a bit of clarification. It can be read as we avoid "strong people", but I think it more applies (and as illustrated by his boxer/MMA text after) that we try to avoid situations that play to our opponent's strength.

I happen to think Ninjutsu is effective, along with a lot of traditional arts, modern arts, MMA, etc. But I still question its effectiveness, question my training, every day. I think it is healthy, and helps me finds areas to work on in my training.

Personally, I feel if I didn't question it I might find myself escalating situations with a false sense of bravado and security. Fights are chaotic things, and one of the biggest factors people don't look at is luck. I don't know about you, but I'm not all that lucky (good luck, anyways), so training or not, I'd just as soon not push my luck.

Sorry, bit of a tangent at the end there. Good luck with your training. Once you get started you'll have fun, I'm sure. And if your friends ask what you are doing, just tell them karate. Most likely they don't know the difference between arts/styles anyways (unless you have lots of friends into martial arts, at which I'd be jealous, lol).

 

[kravi]

Some really rather smart things.

Some good points as well

These were thoughtful replies, and I have to admit that I'm stumped. I'm not a competition fighter (though I'm sure it could be fun, wife and kids would probably not allow me to make a career change at this point ). I'm not a street fighter (haven't been in a bar brawl for many years - as I don't drink past my capacity any more). I'm not a special forces soldier either. So what is effective?

I've been thinking about it, and I'm sure other people have too. And I don't have an answer. It's more the comfort of saying "well, I'll hopefully never get in a fight, but if I ever did I'd want to think I succeeded or failed on my own merits, and not due to any fault of [fill in the name of whatever MA studied]."

Make sense? I mean, it's an intangible, there are no metrics that I'm aware of used to study the *efficacy* or an MA, so I really don't know what to say. I don't even know how to define effective, because the natural question is "effective at what?"

Anyway, I'll give it a shot. We'll see where I'm at in a year or so. Then maybe I'll have some smarter questions

--kravi

 

[Muawijhe]

I think all martial arts are effective. Time tested and all that.

But there are some other things to look at. Effective at what? What is it you want to get out of the martial art? As a hobbyist of Japanese martial arts, it is effective to me in satisfying that hobbyist desire.

There's also, more so than the techniques and principals of any art, the effectiveness of the training and what it prepares you for. For that, I refer you to the book Meditations on Violence by Sgt. Rory Miller. It'll really open your eyes and mind on the way you think about self defense and violence.

There's also the matter of practicality. A sword is a very effective way to defend yourself. As is a gun. But how practical are they in situations you think you will encounter?

Unless the events of The Highlander are more fact than fiction, carrying a sword...well, yeah. And do you really want to pull a gun on drunk uncle Ted when he gets a bit rowdy? Are you ready to go to court for redecorating the lawn with the teenage neighbor kid's brains when he mouths off to you?

 

[Humble Student]

I Think the best way to answer your question is like this.
You say that you have a wife and kids right. Well if the art you train in brings you back to them after a fight and you have most of you body parts then that is effective enough.

The truth of the matter is most people who train don't get into fights because they have been training long enough and are smart enough not to put themselves in those type of situations.

Best adivce, check it out if you like it train if not you can still go some where else.
Its your life and your call on this one ultimately.

 

[kravi]

...snip...
For that, I refer you to the book Meditations on Violence by Sgt. Rory Miller. It'll really open your eyes and mind on the way you think about self defense and violence.
...snip...

Aaaaaaagh. I read that book at your suggestion (G-d bless a Kindle). It was phenomenal.

It certainly did a good job changing my outlook on martial arts, the world, and violence as a whole. I don't know whether to thank you, or hate you. Though to be honest, I don't have much options but to say thanks.

I'm going forth and trying out the Academy. It never was about self defense (something the book accidentally backed up for me), but just about something legitimate. But Jinenkan is legit, sounds like fun, and Scott Teague is a mensch. So cheers, and thanks.

--kravi

 

[Chris Parker]

Very good book, isn't it? Oh, and if I'm reading into some of your posting style correctly... mazel tov!

 

[Tanaka]

These were thoughtful replies, and I have to admit that I'm stumped. I'm not a competition fighter (though I'm sure it could be fun, wife and kids would probably not allow me to make a career change at this point ). I'm not a street fighter (haven't been in a bar brawl for many years - as I don't drink past my capacity any more). I'm not a special forces soldier either. So what is effective?

--kravi

Well you have to take into consideration that Traditional Japanese martial arts were originally created for military purposes. If you go into a modern competition of today. You will be going against people who trained extensively in unarmed hand to hand combat.
Modern Military are also trained in unarmed combat, but do you think they could go into competition and win against those guys?
Probably not.
Does that make their training ineffective?
Nope.
They were trained to survive, and to survive doesn't always mean being able to stand toe to toe with fist and win. That is how I also see it for Traditional Japanese martial arts. You will be taught MUCH MORE than just unarmed combat.

 

[kravi]

Very good book, isn't it? Oh, and if I'm reading into some of your posting style correctly... mazel tov!

You were, didn't meant to let that slip At least it didn't come out in Hebrew (I'm a dual citizen of the US and Israel).

Sadly, I went to a couple of practice lessons and I was... I found that it wasn't what I was looking for. The instructor, who is a fantastic guy, confided in me that most of his adult students are parents of kids, and the curriculum is based on that. No kata, the white belts and brown belts all do the same activities together, etc.

It wasn't rigorous, though the folks were very nice. And to see "advanced students" stumbling their way through certain drills, and to watch two white belts graduate to yellow due to time in, really, rather than proficiency at the required 3 techniques was disheartening.

Back to the drawing board.

--kravi

 

[Chris Parker]

That's a pity... I did wonder about the make-up of the school based on the page, but the only question was is it legit, and being Jinenkan it is. Typically the Jinenkan is known for a high emphasis on the fundamentals before moving onto other aspects.

If you are still interested in something along these lines, I might suggest looking into the Genbukan. In Maryland there is the Kageshin Dojo, linked with Giamboi Shihan, one of the highest ranking instructors in the organisation. Their website is: http://kageshin.startlogic.com/index.html, and a quick look at the group is here:

(Oh, and while I'm at it, it's rather unusual to have no kata in the training, as that is it's basis... but in these arts, "kata" are not like the kata of karate. For example, I can point out the kata of Koto Ryu, Gyokko Ryu, Kukishinden Ryu, Yagyu Shingan Ryu, and more in this clip).

The Genbukan is known for having their emphasis on teaching and transmitting the arts correctly and accurately, with the importance of the traditional side being the highest priority.

Oh, and yeah, there were a few giveaways.... All the best again.

 

[kravi]

Thanks for the quick responses. Sadly the two dojos in Maryland are on the other side. My real limiting factor is real life. I don't have much time for martial arts (call it a couple of times a week plus I can practice at home), let alone driving considerable distances :/

Bah, I guess it's just me and my punching bag. Thanks for the encouragement, though.

--kravi

 

[WesternCiv]

I understand some of the preconceived notions regarding the "ninjas"! When I was looking for martial arts instruction I would have never even considered a "Ninja" school. But I did like the idea of real Japanese Jujutsu and luckily found a Genbukan dojo (really a Kokusai Jujutsu Renmei but they are related) to start training with. As I learned jujutsu I was also introduced to the Ninpo and because of that I was able to overcome my previous prejudices.

As far as what you are looking for - there are many factors to consider. Everything from a personal interest in a style or culture, competitiveness, physical nature, weapons, cost, location etc. Maybe the most important factor is just the feeling you get from the instructor and the students. Does the instructor know the art (whichever art it is)? Is he/she comitted to the proper transmission and instruction of the art or is it simply way to make a living? Does the school have a character that suits your personality? Is there a spirit of cooperation and togetherness within the school?

Basically, take advantage of the free lessons and go with your gut on the school - as you appear to have with the Jenikan dojo.

Based on the way you've described your situation - have you considered Judo?

 

[Inazuma]

I began my training under Scott Teague about 13 years ago, for just the same reasons you mentioned. I lived in the townhouses behind the shopping center and walked by one day. I was immediately hooked. Scott is wonderful guy and a great teacher. His staff are also very nice and good budoka. I hope your experience at his dojo was a good as mine.

 

[goldwarrior]

I've trained with Scott a couple of times. He's a very knowledgeable and helpful instructor. Even though I'm in the Bujinkan, I still highly recommend training with him. If you live that close... why not?