Need advice on a heavy bag, please

[Flying Crane]

I have an 83 pound heavy bag with a vinyl (probably) outer shell that I have used off-and-on for 25 years or so. I have always used it bare-knuckle, without wraps or gloves, and never had a problem. Lately, as I am getting into my middle 50s, I find that my hands don’t recover as quickly as they did, and I thought it might be time to get a lighter bag that is more gentle on my hands.

So I bought one of these:

Ringside Soft Filled Leather 65 lb. Heavy Bag

Ringside Soft Filled Leather 65 lb. Heavy Bag

www.ringside.com

It has a leather outer shell, actually weighs closer to 76 pounds, and claims to have a specially tweaked filling that absorbs impact better, and is more gentle on the hands. The problem is, the leather shell is stiff and kinda rough, almost hard. My old bag is softer, and really isn’t all that much heavier.

So the question is, is it possible to soften the leather to the point where it can be used bare-handed, without tearing up my knuckles, and without feeling like I am punching a board? Will a leather conditioner do that? Is there another method? Perhaps a leather bag like this one really needs to be used with gloves, at least?

Or should I just stick with my old bag or look for something else?

Thanks!

 

[drop bear114 53]

Just wear wraps.

 

[isshinryuronin4 4]

The leather will soften over time. The problem is, so will your hands. As you age the skin gets thinner and tends to tear easily from abrasion. After I turned 60, I started wearing a thin forearm wrap to lessen the friction of my gi on my skin when receiving a strong attack. That was after a brand new expensive gi got drenched in blood, a 2x3 inch flap of skin having peeled off my arm sometime during a sparring match (I'm on blood thinner so it was quite messy).

As a teen, my dojo had a canvas heavy bag that sometimes took a bite out of our knuckles (as did the rope-wrapped makiwara) but at that age it was just part of the fun. In those days any kind of protective gear was frowned upon (I'm still reluctant). But as we age into fragile old men, leaving our studly past glory behind us, we must make allowances. In this case I agree with drop bear - "just wear wraps" - a small price to pay to continue to engage in heavy training.

 

[JowGaWolf2]

It has a leather outer shell, actually weighs closer to 76 pounds, and claims to have a specially tweaked filling that absorbs impact better, and is more gentle on the hands. The problem is, the leather shell is stiff and kinda rough, almost hard. My old bag is softer, and really isn’t all that much heavier.

For striking with the hands, focus on driving the energy directly into the bag. Don't swipe the bag. Don't worry about hitting the bag hard. Focus on the structure of the punch at the impact. Strike the bag with more than just your hands. This will help to soften the leather. If I had a heavy bag of my own I would swap you for that type of bag. I only suggest these things because it's how I train on the heavy bag. Somedays I strike the bad hard but most days I just focus on light conditioning so that my hands heal faster.

But if you just want to speed up the process then land heavier hits with other parts like elbows, knees, and kicks. That will help break that leather. Unless the leather is dried out and on the verge of dry rot. Other than that, it will get softer over time like isshinryuronin stated.

 

[Flying Crane]

The leather will soften over time. The problem is, so will your hands. As you age the skin gets thinner and tends to tear easily from abrasion. After I turned 60, I started wearing a thin forearm wrap to lessen the friction of my gi on my skin when receiving a strong attack. That was after a brand new expensive gi got drenched in blood, a 2x3 inch flap of skin having peeled off my arm sometime during a sparring match (I'm on blood thinner so it was quite messy).

As a teen, my dojo had a canvas heavy bag that sometimes took a bite out of our knuckles (as did the rope-wrapped makiwara) but at that age it was just part of the fun. In those days any kind of protective gear was frowned upon (I'm still reluctant). But as we age into fragile old men, leaving our studly past glory behind us, we must make allowances. In this case I agree with drop bear - "just wear wraps" - a small price to pay to continue to engage in heavy training.

Yikes, that’s a nasty little incident with your flayed skin. Ouch!

The whole point in buying this bag was because I was listening to my body and it was telling me to go easier, and it seemed that a lighter bag might be the answer. I don’t really have experience with leather bags, and didn’t anticipate how the leather would feel.

I took some time today and experimented with it a bit, going light. It might not be as bad as I initially thought and I’m going to give it a go for a bit and see how things turn out. I don’t do wraps. They change the shape of the fist, and I use a number of different hand shapes for different strikes. So wraps would just be a hinderance. For me, one big reason to hit the bag is to know that I can deliver a strong technique without the protection of wraps and gloves. So wraps are simply counter-productive to what my goals are.

I’ve also got an email in to the company, asking for some feedback on the issue. Maybe they will have some suggestions. Maybe a leather conditioner will help, but I don’t know if the leather has been treated with something that would prevent the conditioner from absorbing in. So I’m trying to gather some info. Maybe beating it with a stick would help to soften it up. But I’m reluctant to do anything drastic in case I decide to sell it as practically new.

 

[Flying Crane]

For striking with the hands, focus on driving the energy directly into the bag. Don't swipe the bag. Don't worry about hitting the bag hard. Focus on the structure of the punch at the impact. Strike the bag with more than just your hands. This will help to soften the leather. If I had a heavy bag of my own I would swap you for that type of bag. I only suggest these things because it's how I train on the heavy bag. Somedays I strike the bad hard but most days I just focus on light conditioning so that my hands heal faster.

But if you just want to speed up the process then land heavier hits with other parts like elbows, knees, and kicks. That will help break that leather. Unless the leather is dried out and on the verge of dry rot. Other than that, it will get softer over time like isshinryuronin stated.

Yup, these are all good suggestions and are things that I do and take into account. I’ve been working with my old bag for a couple decades and more, this isn’t a new endeavor.

 

[Kung Fu Wang114 145]

For striking with the hands, focus on driving the energy directly into the bag. Don't swipe the bag.

I like to punch on my heavy bag like a mad man as hard/fast as I can until I get totally exhausted. It takes about 65 punches.

I use outdoor water punching bag (filled with water). It's very comfortable for the hands.

 

[Fungus104 2]

I wear gloves for the bag, but not bulky boxing gloves, just think gloves where you can form proper fist and move y our finders. (Just to save your skin for, not to reduce impact)

I hit like mad on the bag, I like to hit hard. In sparrring I go light, this is why on the bag I go all in. And I have torn the skind of knucles even with gloves in due to friction inside. But I do one layer of tape only on the knuckels inside the gloves. No wrapping, just surface protection. WOrks quite well.

To limit yourself only to the straight punches that doe snot "dig into the bag" limits the striking too much. I like to strike however I want. They way i want to hit the back would simply not work without gloves period, with any amount of conditioning.

 

[JowGaWolf2]

To limit yourself only to the straight punches that doe snot "dig into the bag" limits the striking too much. I like to strike however I want. They way i want to hit the back would simply not work without gloves period, with any amount of conditioning.

It's possible to punch a heavy bag at any angle and have the knuckles dig into the bag. I did it all of the times and was something I would often show others when I see them lose skin to the bag. The best way that I can describe it is that the punch is like stabbing a bag with a spear. Even if the point hits at an angle it will go into the bag and not across it.

The downward punches that you see martial artist use in forms, does not slide across the body it goes into the body. It just takes some patience and practice but it's possible to use it without tearing the skin.

 

[Fungus104 2]

I know what you mean that you can adapt....

But for example, on a flat heavy bag, striking upwards simulating hooking into the lower ribs. In a bag, there are no ribs, and if you dont just punch in/out, but follwo through and displace the bag more, then I find it unavoidable that you slide accors the bag. Yes you can try to pull it back fast, but then the follow through is reduced. I like to train the bag will maximal follow through. I dont want to adapt my techniques to not cutting my skin, I want to train the techniques i like and avoid skin tearing for practical reasons.

 

[jks919986 11]

The leather of the bag will soften some over time, but leather is inherently rougher and more abrasive than vinyl simulated leather. You might be able to soften it some with a leather conditioner, but I'd wait for a response back from the company on that one. I bet they tell you to buy their bag gloves... But gloves aren't necessarily a bad idea. A light pair of work gloves or driving gloves might let you maintain your fist forms, but protect the skin.

 

[skribs113 134]

I like World Taekwondo style gloves for bag work. Anything thicker just feels weird to me. This helps keep my hands from getting bag burn. And they usually have an absorbent pad on the thumb you can use to wipe sweat.

 

[Xue Sheng107 25]

I have an 83 pound heavy bag with a vinyl (probably) outer shell that I have used off-and-on for 25 years or so. I have always used it bare-knuckle, without wraps or gloves, and never had a problem. Lately, as I am getting into my middle 50s, I find that my hands don’t recover as quickly as they did, and I thought it might be time to get a lighter bag that is more gentle on my hands.

So I bought one of these:

Ringside Soft Filled Leather 65 lb. Heavy Bag

Ringside Soft Filled Leather 65 lb. Heavy Bag

www.ringside.com

It has a leather outer shell, actually weighs closer to 76 pounds, and claims to have a specially tweaked filling that absorbs impact better, and is more gentle on the hands. The problem is, the leather shell is stiff and kinda rough, almost hard. My old bag is softer, and really isn’t all that much heavier.

So the question is, is it possible to soften the leather to the point where it can be used bare-handed, without tearing up my knuckles, and without feeling like I am punching a board? Will a leather conditioner do that? Is there another method? Perhaps a leather bag like this one really needs to be used with gloves, at least?

Or should I just stick with my old bag or look for something else?

Thanks!

I had a similar problem in my 50s, first my old friend, my Everlast bag, had the vinyl cover beaten off of it (still have it by the way, just couldn't bring myself to get rid of it). So I replaced it with another Everlast leather bag, 70lbs. Ad after that, my hands started not liking hitting it as much with my fists, so I went to boxing gloves, which for me, was a mistake. The angle at which you hit the bag changes based on the thickness of the glove, and I hurt my wrist. I did try wrapping, but hated it. So I went and got a pair of TITLE MMA Conflict Training Gloves. Been fine since then. I simply like to have my fingers free to move.

 

[isshinryuronin4 4]

I don’t do wraps. They change the shape of the fist, and I use a number of different hand shapes for different strikes. So wraps would just be a hinderance. For me, one big reason to hit the bag is to know that I can deliver a strong technique without the protection of wraps and gloves. So wraps are simply counter-productive to what my goals are.

I am generally against protective equipment for these reasons but the wrap I'm talking about is not layers and layers turning your hands into padded immobile tools - just a single thin layer whose only purpose is to reduce friction-abrasion on your skin - maybe a thin nylon or cotton glove will do the trick for you until you beat your bag into submission.

 

[JowGaWolf2]

I am generally against protective equipment for these reasons but the wrap I'm talking about is not layers and layers turning your hands into padded immobile tools - just a single thin layer whose only purpose is to reduce friction-abrasion on your skin - maybe a thin nylon or cotton glove will do the trick for you until you beat your bag into submission.

This is a good idea for martial arts systems that have different fist / hand structures for strikes. Jow Ga uses the same fist formation for multiple strikes. If the hands and knuckles are conditioned properly then it's possible to use that same fist formation to strike with any knuckle. But that can't be done without slightly changing the structure based on how the fist will strike the surface. This change occurs during the relax state that occurs before the strike and after the strike.

Full hand wraps prevent those changes and don't allow the structural changes to be made. If someone's shifting between different types of strikes, then the wraps become a source of disruption that prevents or restricts proper fist formation for that specific strike. If the goal is to protect the skin, then this can be done with a light material vs a padded one.

 

[Fungus104 2]

just a single thin layer whose only purpose is to reduce friction-abrasion on your skin

I fully agree. I used to not have gloves, but the main problem is that once it starts to bleed, it will bleed through even ghe glove, and that is not popular in sparring session. It happaned that I realized that everbodies gi is covered with red dots, and its first when i take off my golves i realise blood gets out of the fingers of the glove.

I have tried probalby 5 different gloves and they one i have not is not percet, but its the best so far. It's a leather glove made for the bag with cut off fingers, it prefere a slightly thinner one but havent found one so far.

I also tries boxing wrap but that amke your hand feels like they are int cast and it gives unnormally high wrist support, that allows you to strike very sloppy. However inside a bloxing glove owhere you really cant' form a proper first, it might be necessary to make up for the lack of a fist stabilization.

 

[JowGaWolf2]

I fully agree. I used to not have gloves, but the main problem is that once it starts to bleed, it will bleed through even ghe glove, and that is not popular in sparring session. It happaned that I realized that everbodies gi is covered with red dots, and its first when i take off my golves i realise blood gets out of the fingers of the glove.

I have tried probalby 5 different gloves and they one i have not is not percet, but its the best so far. It's a leather glove made for the bag with cut off fingers, it prefere a slightly thinner one but havent found one so far.

I also tries boxing wrap but that amke your hand feels like they are int cast and it gives unnormally high wrist support, that allows you to strike very sloppy. However inside a bloxing glove owhere you really cant' form a proper first, it might be necessary to make up for the lack of a fist stabilization.

So during my hand conditioning I realized that the callous has 2 main types. The one that is close to the bone and one that floats above the bone (imagine a callous on top of a blister).

When I condition my knuckles, I always check to make sure that the Callous is not floating. This type of formation pads your knuckles but does not protect against ripping the skin. In this situation the callous strikes the bag but the fist stills moves.

I guess a better visual is like your fist sliding around in your glove causing the same outcome that you tried to prevent on the bag. Now think of your skin like a glove and the callous the padding and your skin still gets damaged not because of the impact but because of the sliding.

The light knuckle tapping that I use to condition my hands prevents that "floating callus"

Some of you might have seen photos of boxers where the callus rips of the skin. That's the bad callus that you don't want. The one that is closer to bone doesn't move around when the hand is opened flat.

This is probably a better read of what I tried to explain
Ai Written:
There are two different tissue states that fighters, climbers, rowers, and runners all experience:

Ai Response:

A. Pressure‑induced hyperkeratosis​

This is the medical term for the “anchored, close‑to‑the‑bone” callus.

It forms when:

• the skin is repeatedly compressed
• the epidermis thickens
• the deeper layers stay bonded
• the tissue becomes dense and protective

This is the good callus.

B. Shear‑induced epidermal separation​

This is the medical term for the “floating callus” you described.

It forms when:

• the skin layers separate due to friction
• a blister or micro‑blister forms
• the outer layer hardens over the separated tissue
• the callus is not anchored and can slide

This is the dangerous one that tears.

My question to Ai: What's the relation to impact and friction?

1. Impact and friction create ​

This is the core truth:

Impact → Compression → Bonded callus​

Friction → Shear → Floating callus​

They are not the same stimulus, and the skin does not adapt the same way.

Let’s break them down.

2. IMPACT = Compression = “Bonded” callus (protective)​

Impact creates vertical force into the knuckle.

This causes:

• the epidermis to thicken downward
• the dermis and epidermis to stay tightly bonded
• collagen to align and stiffen
• the tissue to compact

Medical term: pressure‑induced hyperkeratosis

This is your:

• “close to the bone” callus
• “anchored” callus
• “true conditioning” callus

It protects you because all layers move together on impact.

There is no sliding, so no tearing.

3. FRICTION = Shear = “Floating” callus (dangerous)​

Friction creates horizontal force across the skin.

This causes:

• the epidermis to slide over the dermis
• micro‑separation between layers
• fluid or damaged tissue to form between layers
• the top layer to harden over a weak base

Medical term: shear‑induced epidermal separation (or blister‑derived hyperkeratosis)

This is your:

• “floating callus”
• “callus on top of a blister”
• “unstable pad”

It tears because the top layer stops but the deeper layers keep moving.

Exactly like your glove analogy.

4. The relationship between impact and friction is this:​

Impact builds callus.​

Friction undermines it.​

Impact = compression = bondingFriction = shear = separation

They are opposite forces acting on the same tissue.

This is why:

• you can have strong knuckles but still rip skin
• you can have thick calluses that fail under shear
• you can condition bone but still damage the epidermis

Impact strengthens. -
Friction destabilizes.

5. Why fighters get confused​

Because both impact and friction can produce thickened skin, but:

• one is anchored
• one is floating

Thickness ≠ stability.

My Question to Ai: So, impact would be striking directly into a heavy bag and friction would be striking across the bag?

Ai Response:

Yes — that’s exactly the right way to think about it, and you’re not misunderstanding anything.Let me give you the clean, mechanically accurate breakdown using your example.

1. Impact = straight‑in strike = compression​

When you hit a heavy bag directly into it, with the force going into the bag, the skin experiences:

• vertical force
• compression
• no sliding
• no shear

This produces the bonded, protective callus (pressure‑induced hyperkeratosis).

All the skin layers move together on impact.

This is the good kind.

2. Friction = glancing strike = sliding across the bag​

When your fist slides across the bag — even slightly — the skin experiences:

• horizontal force
• shear
• micro‑movement between layers
• epidermal separation

This produces the floating callus (shear‑induced epidermal separation / blister‑derived callus).

The top layer stops.The deeper layers keep moving.That’s what causes tearing.

This is the dangerous kind.

 

[Flying Crane]

I’ve got a couple emails in to the company and hopefully will get a reply after the weekend.

They have another similar model, same weight and size, made from something they call “powerhide” but I haven’t been able to find a definition on their website for what that is. I suspect it is a synthetic leather or vinyl of some kind, probably softer than real leather, similar to my old Everlast. In hindsight, I should have purchased that bag instead.

I suspect the resolution to this situation is that I will sell the bag on Nextdoor, and buy one of the Powerhide models. The leather bag was on sale for significant discount, although the shipping made up for much of that discount. At any rate, I suspect I should be able to recover nearly all of what I spent by selling it as nearly new. Maybe I’ll knock off $30 or something, but that’s as good as even. Then I can buy the Powerhide version.

 

[Flying Crane]

I like to punch on my heavy bag like a mad man as hard/fast as I can until I get totally exhausted. It takes about 65 punches.

I use outdoor water punching bag (filled with water). It's very comfortable for the hands.

View attachment 34032

This is interesting. I looked it up online and it claims weight to over 200 pounds, depending on how much water you put in. That is too much weight to hang from the rafters in my garage. I want under 100 pounds. The description claims you can fill it to your desired weight and then pump in air to the firmness you desire. I don’t understand that, because then the water would be in the bottom half, and the top half would be all air. If you are striking on the top half, it negates the whole purpose of having a water bag.

Comments? Thoughts?

 

[Kung Fu Wang114 145]

This is interesting. I looked it up online and it claims weight to over 200 pounds, depending on how much water you put in. That is too much weight to hang from the rafters in my garage. I want under 100 pounds. The description claims you can fill it to your desired weight and then pump in air to the firmness you desire. I don’t understand that, because then the water would be in the bottom half, and the top half would be all air. If you are striking on the top half, it negates the whole purpose of having a water bag.

Comments? Thoughts?

I use my water punching bag outdoor and hang it on a tree branch. If you only fill up water halfway, you can hang it higher and not hit on the top part of the bag.

Have you considered the wavemaster used indoor?