Need actual help. Truly need some Knowledge / Input...

Blackjacket

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Hello to whom ever it may concern. Here is the deal : I am having a real ***** of a time 'finding' out WHERE in heck I might find and pay for what I would be inclined to refer to as 'immersion' training for lethal self defense...and I mean absolutely Lethal. And I don't mean 'martial art', I mean more along the lines of 'get it done and kill the guy who is trying to kill YOU' type instruction. I am not a big man, and am not young anymore either. But---I have been lifting wieghts for my entire---life. AND, I am a former pro-mountain biker, so though I am 'thin' and small boned, I'm fairly tough, have built in strength from all my years of athletics, and very good endurance. I don't mind if I have to shell out 5 grand to access an immersion course --so long as it is the REAL DEAL. But I'll be damned if I can't find ANYONE....ANY WHERE who has ANY clue about 'where' I might find such a course. They all just keep trying to point me in the direction of entering into some form of martial art, and I am NOT interested in 'that' approach. More like mastering a brutal and effective use of the basic boot knife, and or, in conjunction with a hand gun, and or even a wooden club or club and knife. ..Just...somebody...does ANY one have clue here about what I am looking for...??? I want to become 'capable' of quickly killing someone who is trying to KILL ME as the way I see it, I don't think that 'reality' as we know it is going to be as 'nice' and 'peaceful' as we are all accustomed to and take for granted for all that much longer, it's just a 'gut' feeling. ..I hope I am wrong of course, but I am adamant to make sure I am one of the people who is damned well READY and RIPE in case the **** hits the fan....so to speak. ...Anyone??? And please, don't offer any stupid or wise-crack advice. I'm not in the mood for *** hats. Just someone who might think they know what I might be talking about. I am in the Pacific Northwest, so it would of course be nice if I didn't have to 'fly' to a place....as I do--not--fly anymore thanks to all the *** hats liberal politicized virus horseshit agend etc etc add nausium....

Anyhow, thanks in advance to ANY one who has even a scant TRACE of bona fide, relevant input for me.

...
We're all capable of quickly killing someone, but I'm not surprised you can't find what you are looking for as most of us don't want to carry that kind of attitude around too close to our surface; there are consequences and costs to everything. Most of the people I know who are really good at that sort of thing are now in prison. At the end of the day the person most likely to kill you is yourself, bad diet, stress, substance abuse and above all a bad attitude.
Hello to whom ever it may concern. Here is the deal : I am having a real ***** of a time 'finding' out WHERE in heck I might find and pay for what I would be inclined to refer to as 'immersion' training for lethal self defense...and I mean absolutely Lethal. And I don't mean 'martial art', I mean more along the lines of 'get it done and kill the guy who is trying to kill YOU' type instruction. I am not a big man, and am not young anymore either. But---I have been lifting wieghts for my entire---life. AND, I am a former pro-mountain biker, so though I am 'thin' and small boned, I'm fairly tough, have built in strength from all my years of athletics, and very good endurance. I don't mind if I have to shell out 5 grand to access an immersion course --so long as it is the REAL DEAL. But I'll be damned if I can't find ANYONE....ANY WHERE who has ANY clue about 'where' I might find such a course. They all just keep trying to point me in the direction of entering into some form of martial art, and I am NOT interested in 'that' approach. More like mastering a brutal and effective use of the basic boot knife, and or, in conjunction with a hand gun, and or even a wooden club or club and knife. ..Just...somebody...does ANY one have clue here about what I am looking for...??? I want to become 'capable' of quickly killing someone who is trying to KILL ME as the way I see it, I don't think that 'reality' as we know it is going to be as 'nice' and 'peaceful' as we are all accustomed to and take for granted for all that much longer, it's just a 'gut' feeling. ..I hope I am wrong of course, but I am adamant to make sure I am one of the people who is damned well READY and RIPE in case the **** hits the fan....so to speak. ...Anyone??? And please, don't offer any stupid or wise-crack advice. I'm not in the mood for *** hats. Just someone who might think they know what I might be talking about. I am in the Pacific Northwest, so it would of course be nice if I didn't have to 'fly' to a place....as I do--not--fly anymore thanks to all the *** hats liberal politicized virus horseshit agend etc etc add nausium....

Anyhow, thanks in advance to ANY one who has even a scant TRACE of bona fide, relevant input for me.

...
 

Steve

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I think his point was that sport does reward these risky plays (like hitting for home runs). So we should expect to see walk-off home runs, even though the attempt comes with an elevated risk of strikeout vs. what we might call "technical hitting" where the attempt is to get the ball in play with the lowest chance of strikeout and greatest chance of getting to base.

And my point is that the more you're actually good at, the more options you have available, and the more likely you will be to improvise in a situation based on the context of that situation. You seem to think I don't understand his point. I do, and I think it's ridiculous. Instead of trying to explain what you think he was thinking, why not share your own opinions?

Agreed. That was my point. And even then, I think the risk is minimal with rulesets that don't reward risky stuff overly much. So somebody training for MMA competition - even if they train exclusively for competition - is probably not developing any problematic high-risk habits.

I even suspect that home run hitter might have an advantage over me in a fight, if we both have bats. Ow.

Terrific.

And now I'm looking forward to reading your posts where you explain to @isshinryuronin what you think I'm trying to say. Should be good fun.
 

cgtomash

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Hello to whom ever it may concern. Here is the deal : I am having a real ***** of a time 'finding' out WHERE in heck I might find and pay for what I would be inclined to refer to as 'immersion' training for lethal self defense...and I mean absolutely Lethal. And I don't mean 'martial art', I mean more along the lines of 'get it done and kill the guy who is trying to kill YOU' type instruction. I

Join the army where they would teach such things. If you are in hand to hand combat with the enemy, it would be kill ore be killed. Other than that, good luck finding such instruction.
 

andras

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Google "Mental Health Counseling for Anger Management and Delusions Near Me".

If you're lucky, the liberals will have funded it for you with tax dollars.
 

kfman

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Hello to whom ever it may concern. Here is the deal : I am having a real ***** of a time 'finding' out WHERE in heck I might find and pay for what I would be inclined to refer to as 'immersion' training for lethal self defense...and I mean absolutely Lethal. And I don't mean 'martial art', I mean more along the lines of 'get it done and kill the guy who is trying to kill YOU' type instruction. I am not a big man, and am not young anymore either. But---I have been lifting wieghts for my entire---life. AND, I am a former pro-mountain biker, so though I am 'thin' and small boned, I'm fairly tough, have built in strength from all my years of athletics, and very good endurance. I don't mind if I have to shell out 5 grand to access an immersion course --so long as it is the REAL DEAL. But I'll be damned if I can't find ANYONE....ANY WHERE who has ANY clue about 'where' I might find such a course. They all just keep trying to point me in the direction of entering into some form of martial art, and I am NOT interested in 'that' approach. More like mastering a brutal and effective use of the basic boot knife, and or, in conjunction with a hand gun, and or even a wooden club or club and knife. ..Just...somebody...does ANY one have clue here about what I am looking for...??? I want to become 'capable' of quickly killing someone who is trying to KILL ME as the way I see it, I don't think that 'reality' as we know it is going to be as 'nice' and 'peaceful' as we are all accustomed to and take for granted for all that much longer, it's just a 'gut' feeling. ..I hope I am wrong of course, but I am adamant to make sure I am one of the people who is damned well READY and RIPE in case the **** hits the fan....so to speak. ...Anyone??? And please, don't offer any stupid or wise-crack advice. I'm not in the mood for *** hats. Just someone who might think they know what I might be talking about. I am in the Pacific Northwest, so it would of course be nice if I didn't have to 'fly' to a place....as I do--not--fly anymore thanks to all the *** hats liberal politicized virus horseshit agend etc etc add nausium....

Anyhow, thanks in advance to ANY one who has even a scant TRACE of bona fide, relevant input for me.

...
Try Krav Maga.
 

nigebj

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OP - seems to have gone, but as may have said killing is easy - the question is why that is what you want to learn? Are you in a situation (country, domestic, whatever) where your life is threatened? If so, you don't have time to learn (and 5K isn't going to get you the instruction, repetition, and practice to make a difference.

General. There was a lot of back-and-forth on sparring. I personally feel that a surprise attack in the street is very different to anything you will find in a ring. When you step in a ring you are pre-wired for combat, to think your system will go from quietly enjoying the evening to 'fight mode' instantly should you be attacked is - IMO and IME, naive for anyone other than those with military training. Your first response will be "what's happening", then "oh I'm being attacked - why?" and then finally "**** I need to protect myself and get out of here".

I have been stabbed in a crowd, no prior warning and did not realize until the second strike was on it's way (yes you may not feel a sharp, small blade much). In another situation I fell for the "what's the time trick" - I was only young, give me a break. In both cases there was no lead in confrontation - just "we're fighting". I am unconvinced ring work prepares you for that. I mention this not to challenge anyone's ego, but in the hopes that anyone whose confidence in themselves is built on that at least gives it a second thought before relying on it.
 

George Kohler

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Hello to whom ever it may concern. Here is the deal : I am having a real ***** of a time 'finding' out WHERE in heck I might find and pay for what I would be inclined to refer to as 'immersion' training for lethal self defense...and I mean absolutely Lethal. And I don't mean 'martial art', I mean more along the lines of 'get it done and kill the guy who is trying to kill YOU' type instruction. I am not a big man, and am not young anymore either. But---I have been lifting wieghts for my entire---life. AND, I am a former pro-mountain biker, so though I am 'thin' and small boned, I'm fairly tough, have built in strength from all my years of athletics, and very good endurance. I don't mind if I have to shell out 5 grand to access an immersion course --so long as it is the REAL DEAL. But I'll be damned if I can't find ANYONE....ANY WHERE who has ANY clue about 'where' I might find such a course. They all just keep trying to point me in the direction of entering into some form of martial art, and I am NOT interested in 'that' approach. More like mastering a brutal and effective use of the basic boot knife, and or, in conjunction with a hand gun, and or even a wooden club or club and knife. ..Just...somebody...does ANY one have clue here about what I am looking for...??? I want to become 'capable' of quickly killing someone who is trying to KILL ME as the way I see it, I don't think that 'reality' as we know it is going to be as 'nice' and 'peaceful' as we are all accustomed to and take for granted for all that much longer, it's just a 'gut' feeling. ..I hope I am wrong of course, but I am adamant to make sure I am one of the people who is damned well READY and RIPE in case the **** hits the fan....so to speak. ...Anyone??? And please, don't offer any stupid or wise-crack advice. I'm not in the mood for *** hats. Just someone who might think they know what I might be talking about. I am in the Pacific Northwest, so it would of course be nice if I didn't have to 'fly' to a place....as I do--not--fly anymore thanks to all the *** hats liberal politicized virus horseshit agend etc etc add nausium....

Anyhow, thanks in advance to ANY one who has even a scant TRACE of bona fide, relevant input for me.

...
Look into a shooting course... like Chuck Pressburg's Presscheck Consulting courses. He doesn't live in Washington anymore but he still does a lot courses there.

 

Phoenix44

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Hello to whom ever it may concern. Here is the deal : I am having a real ***** of a time 'finding' out WHERE in heck I might find and pay for what I would be inclined to refer to as 'immersion' training for lethal self defense...and I mean absolutely Lethal. And I don't mean 'martial art', I mean more along the lines of 'get it done and kill the guy who is trying to kill YOU' type instruction. I am not a big man, and am not young anymore either. But---I have been lifting wieghts for my entire---life. AND, I am a former pro-mountain biker, so though I am 'thin' and small boned, I'm fairly tough, have built in strength from all my years of athletics, and very good endurance. I don't mind if I have to shell out 5 grand to access an immersion course --so long as it is the REAL DEAL. But I'll be damned if I can't find ANYONE....ANY WHERE who has ANY clue about 'where' I might find such a course. They all just keep trying to point me in the direction of entering into some form of martial art, and I am NOT interested in 'that' approach. More like mastering a brutal and effective use of the basic boot knife, and or, in conjunction with a hand gun, and or even a wooden club or club and knife. ..Just...somebody...does ANY one have clue here about what I am looking for...??? I want to become 'capable' of quickly killing someone who is trying to KILL ME as the way I see it, I don't think that 'reality' as we know it is going to be as 'nice' and 'peaceful' as we are all accustomed to and take for granted for all that much longer, it's just a 'gut' feeling. ..I hope I am wrong of course, but I am adamant to make sure I am one of the people who is damned well READY and RIPE in case the **** hits the fan....so to speak. ...Anyone??? And please, don't offer any stupid or wise-crack advice. I'm not in the mood for *** hats. Just someone who might think they know what I might be talking about. I am in the Pacific Northwest, so it would of course be nice if I didn't have to 'fly' to a place....as I do--not--fly anymore thanks to all the *** hats liberal politicized virus horseshit agend etc etc add nausium....

Anyhow, thanks in advance to ANY one who has even a scant TRACE of bona fide, relevant input for me.

...
I actually thought this was a serious matter, and based on 25 years of experience as a martial artist, I did have a few suggestions for you. But then I got to the end of your post, where you called me an "***hat liberal." Maybe someone else can help you. Maybe someone with expertise in another field.
 

nigebj

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I actually thought this was a serious matter, and based on 25 years of experience as a martial artist, I did have a few suggestions for you. But then I got to the end of your post, where you called me an "***hat liberal." Maybe someone else can help you. Maybe someone with expertise in another field.
Yeah, I should have read to the end - trolling it seems. But then again, someone mid-thread pointed out that there may be people looking more seriously for this kind of thing. As others have said, this is more likely to be found in the firearms training world than MA world. There are a bunch of adrenaline driven courses here in CO which claim to give this kind of exposure. But it seems to me that anything you don't live-and-breath for many years is unlikely to prepare you for kill or be killed - so if you are not ex-military it seems unlikely you'll get to a level of competence, probably just false-confidence.
 

BigMotor

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killing is easy, its the not going to prison part thats hard to figure out.
sometimes its better to get close to the person and just do little things that erode their sense of well being as you get to watch their soul die a little more each day until finally that person is nothing more than an empty shell.
boowhaahahaha
I didn't go to prison after I was charged with murder; and that was hard, since it took a jury trial, and an acquittal.

After my acqittal, two of his moron buddies, challenged me to a knife fight. It was dark and they couldn’t see my .45 Auto, that I had in my pocket.

Its a good thing that they never pressed their luck, because I would have killed them too. Your model needs a lot of work, since getting close to psychopaths doesn’t work.

And since this is a discussion board, I am probably the only one here that has killed, outside of combat. Or I am the only one that will admit it.
 

gpseymour

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And my point is that the more you're actually good at, the more options you have available, and the more likely you will be to improvise in a situation based on the context of that situation. You seem to think I don't understand his point. I do, and I think it's ridiculous. Instead of trying to explain what you think he was thinking, why not share your own opinions?
Apparently I misunderstood one of your posts - I thought you were reading his post saying something different. My opinion is apparently pretty close to yours - that practicing more options gives you a better skillset for improvising.
 

gpseymour

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Reminder to all users:

Political discussion is not allowed on MartialTalk.

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Dlangly

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Hello to whom ever it may concern. Here is the deal : I am having a real ***** of a time 'finding' out WHERE in heck I might find and pay for what I would be inclined to refer to as 'immersion' training for lethal self defense...and I mean absolutely Lethal. And I don't mean 'martial art', I mean more along the lines of 'get it done and kill the guy who is trying to kill YOU' type instruction. I am not a big man, and am not young anymore either. But---I have been lifting wieghts for my entire---life. AND, I am a former pro-mountain biker, so though I am 'thin' and small boned, I'm fairly tough, have built in strength from all my years of athletics, and very good endurance. I don't mind if I have to shell out 5 grand to access an immersion course --so long as it is the REAL DEAL. But I'll be damned if I can't find ANYONE....ANY WHERE who has ANY clue about 'where' I might find such a course. They all just keep trying to point me in the direction of entering into some form of martial art, and I am NOT interested in 'that' approach. More like mastering a brutal and effective use of the basic boot knife, and or, in conjunction with a hand gun, and or even a wooden club or club and knife. ..Just...somebody...does ANY one have clue here about what I am looking for...??? I want to become 'capable' of quickly killing someone who is trying to KILL ME as the way I see it, I don't think that 'reality' as we know it is going to be as 'nice' and 'peaceful' as we are all accustomed to and take for granted for all that much longer, it's just a 'gut' feeling. ..I hope I am wrong of course, but I am adamant to make sure I am one of the people who is damned well READY and RIPE in case the **** hits the fan....so to speak. ...Anyone??? And please, don't offer any stupid or wise-crack advice. I'm not in the mood for *** hats. Just someone who might think they know what I might be talking about. I am in the Pacific Northwest, so it would of course be nice if I didn't have to 'fly' to a place....as I do--not--fly anymore thanks to all the *** hats liberal politicized virus horseshit agend etc etc add nausium....

Anyhow, thanks in advance to ANY one who has even a scant TRACE of bona fide, relevant input for me.

...
First thing there should be a long lecture somewhere about making sure what you do will be legally defensible. You kill a guy for stepping on your toe your going to prison.

Second the really intense groups, the best ones are going to ask for a background check, physical, and a psychiatric evaluation. Have them ready upon request.

Krav Maga is close to where you want to be. They have weekend intensive and weeklong instructor courses, which aren't bad.

Get Tough book by Fairbain is good
Kill or get killed by Rex Applegate
On Killing by Dave Grossman

Martial blade camp Google it.
Jim Grovers Combatives Series (Videos), he also has a training facility.

Camps and weeklong training siminars are seldom cheap, not for the faint of heart, expect a long liability waiver and have good health insurance. Expect to be injured and for the love of God invest in a good martial arts cup, not an insert.
 

hoshin1600

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Your model needs a lot of work, since getting close to psychopaths doesn’t work.
It's called humor and irony. Obviously if I was going to psychologically punish someone for a long period of time, I would be the psychopath wouldn't I.
And I was thinking more along the lines of family relationships. It had nothing to do with you.
 

cismab

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Wow, have to chime in here. Agree with Unkogami. ;) All people know how to "kill", sane people try to avoid killing unless in a kill or be killed situation.

Martial, Combat, Defense... or whatever you want to call it... has to do with knowing WHEN and HOW to react: targeting, speed, timing, anatomy, cause and effect, fine vs gross motor skills, defensive and offensive of weaponry, physiological and psychological issues, fight/flight or FREEZE and so much more. This is why real martial artists go through years / decades of training and continue to hone their skills. "Experience" can't be taught (via a couple of get-to-the point lessons). It's like saying you want to know what a med school graduate has learned, but you're age 6 and want to have the skills of a surgeon instantly. Yes, there are watered down "belt factory" schools out there, but there are also schools that will teach you how to properly defend yourself. It takes time, which obviously some are not willing to do. We live in an instant gratification world. For those who are willing - look for schools that don't brag on how many black belts they've produced or how many trophy's their schools have won. Look for ones that their curriculum is geared towards self defense (in practical application and not designed in theory) and not sport martial arts. Not bashing sport martial arts (those students are fast in their skills and tournaments are fun), but there is a mindset difference between sport and practical application skills. I shot on a sport rifle team decades ago and even though I have an expert sharpshooters aim, that doesn't mean I had the mindset to fire a rifle at another living being with the intent to take their life.

To kill is PHYSICALLY easy and can be a single action (pull a trigger for instance), the aftermath is the difficult part (law, justification, memory and mind games, the sheer biological gross factor, living with your actions for the remainder of your life).

Just my 2 cents worth.
 

TKD Dano

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Dear Luthor :

Saw your comment , appreciate your frustration , did not check other responses no time . but I've done the MA thing & I understand it's not the answer for all : So here you go, check out/get in touch with Raw Combat International (RCI) Luke Halloway ? not sure on spelling . He is a highly skilled MA in traditional MA BUT !!! He does not teach that , he DOES teach COMBATIVES , the down & dirty no frills get it done & walk away , but he also understands there are legal aspects to violence too . Should be able to find him with a google search . He is an Australian National living & making a living teaching his skill set in Japan & wait for it in Seminars around the globe . Cheers hope it helps .
 
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