Need a HKD BB to go with your TKD BB?

[Kong Soo Do]

http://www.gmwons.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Hapkido-Info.pdf

Great news for anyone wanting a HKD BB to compliment their TKD BB, without the fuss of actually having to train for one (at least beyond two days). And better yet, you may not have to start at 1st Dan, it could be higher. There are stringent requirements though so be forwarned, you need a TKD BB and you will have to attend at least two days training time to be eligible to test for a HKD BB. That's a whole weekend!

And even better news, if you attended last years seminar you're likely to be eligible for a promotion already.

I'm not sure what the test fee is, but it is in addition to the seminar fee. Only Visa and Master Card are excepted though.

 

[oftheherd1]

Awww, rats! I already have a BB in Hapkido. Do you suppose I could go there and get one in TKD?

What a rip! If the Korean Hapkido Federation agrees to that, shame on them. If they don't, they should sanction him. Same with the Kukilwon.

Ok well.

 

[StudentCarl]

I wonder if you have to have one of those cable connection ports in the back of your skull, like in The Matrix. I'd be interested to see the curriculum.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Awww, rats! I already have a BB in Hapkido. Do you suppose I could go there and get one in TKD?

You may have to wait for another KKW special testing for that BB.

 

[dancingalone]

I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt. Hopefully, the people this is marketed at are supposed to have extensive hapkido experience already otherwise they will fail the test given for certification. Gotta admit it doesn't look good though and makes me wonder about the value of IHF paper.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt. Hopefully, the people this is marketed at are supposed to have extensive hapkido experience already otherwise they will fail the test given for certification. Gotta admit it doesn't look good though and makes me wonder about the value of IHF paper.

This is, I think, what it all boils down to. If you can get the paper with nothing more than a weekend seminar, then it's worthless, and calls into question the validity of all IHF certifications. If it's a real test, however, and the seminar merely gives you the chance to try (and fail) then the question becomes whether they will simply let anyone test (and pay) or only allow those with a reasonable grasp of the material to test.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

http://www.gmwons.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Hapkido-Info.pdf

Great news for anyone wanting a HKD BB to compliment their TKD BB, without the fuss of actually having to train for one (at least beyond two days). And better yet, you may not have to start at 1st Dan, it could be higher. There are stringent requirements though so be forwarned, you need a TKD BB and you will have to attend at least two days training time to be eligible to test for a HKD BB. That's a whole weekend!

And even better news, if you attended last years seminar you're likely to be eligible for a promotion already.

I'm not sure what the test fee is, but it is in addition to the seminar fee. Only Visa and Master Card are excepted though.

Already have one. Already higher than first degree. I think I'll keep my cards un-dented.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt. Hopefully, the people this is marketed at are supposed to have extensive hapkido experience already otherwise they will fail the test given for certification. Gotta admit it doesn't look good though and makes me wonder about the value of IHF paper.

Commenting only by what the flyer states...

Paragraph 4: Comments on some TKD schools teaching HKD as part of the TKD curriculum, but not necessarily recognizing it as HKD. This sounds like TKD with a few joint locks and throws tossed into the mix. It states that both basic and advanced techniques will be covered.

Paragraph 5: Centered around student retention and being competitive (read $).

Paragraph 6: Here is the crux of the matter. You can test, for an extra charge after the seminar. How long this test is, or what it entails is not mentioned. But other than the basic and advanced taught in the seminar, what would the test consist of? Fact is that not every HKD school teaches exactly the same material. And cutting to the matter, it isn't aimed at HKD students, but rather TKD students so any material other than what was taught at the seminar itself could vary widely. Additionally, it states you need a TKD BB. Why? What would one have to do with the other? People can never take TKD, but train in a legitimate HKD school and make BB. So basically, looking at the flyer, this is for TKD folks who may or may not have a bit of HKD training, taking a weekend's worth of techniques and then being tested upon those techniques and being given a BB.

To go further, it states it is a COMBINATION of your ability AND your current TKD rank. So what does this mean? If you're a 5th Dan in TKD and can do all the techniques taught during the two days of training...do you then qualify for a 2nd or 3rd or a 4th in HKD in this HKD organization?

Paragraph 8: If you took last years seminar and got a BB, apparentely you could be eligible for a promotion. So if you made a BB higher than 1st Dan last year, you only have one year TIG for promotion?

 

[oftheherd1]

I wonder if you have to have one of those cable connection ports in the back of your skull, like in The Matrix. I'd be interested to see the curriculum.

Follow the link posted by Kong Soo Do ( http://www.gmwons.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Hapkido-Info.pdf ) where it looks like all you have to have is a TKD BB (makes no sense, as the Hapkido I learned does not share any traits with TKD), and attend two 7 hour days, then test. I can only imagine the testing consists of 'if you can stumble through the techniques and stretching I taught sometimes, you are a BB.'

Then look at some of the online videos of seminars at http://www.google.com/search?q=joo+...8&startIndex=&startPage=1&rlz=1I7ADFA_enUS436 to see what he is teaching. He actually looks like he knows about Hapkido, but I can't imagine if that is so, why he would issue BBs after only 14 hours of instruction.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Commenting only by what the flyer states...

Paragraph 4: Comments on some TKD schools teaching HKD as part of the TKD curriculum, but not necessarily recognizing it as HKD. This sounds like TKD with a few joint locks and throws tossed into the mix. It states that both basic and advanced techniques will be covered.

Paragraph 5: Centered around student retention and being competitive (read $).

Paragraph 6: Here is the crux of the matter. You can test, for an extra charge after the seminar. How long this test is, or what it entails is not mentioned. But other than the basic and advanced taught in the seminar, what would the test consist of? Fact is that not every HKD school teaches exactly the same material. And cutting to the matter, it isn't aimed at HKD students, but rather TKD students so any material other than what was taught at the seminar itself could vary widely. Additionally, it states you need a TKD BB. Why? What would one have to do with the other? People can never take TKD, but train in a legitimate HKD school and make BB. So basically, looking at the flyer, this is for TKD folks who may or may not have a bit of HKD training, taking a weekend's worth of techniques and then being tested upon those techniques and being given a BB.

To go further, it states it is a COMBINATION of your ability AND your current TKD rank. So what does this mean? If you're a 5th Dan in TKD and can do all the techniques taught during the two days of training...do you then qualify for a 2nd or 3rd or a 4th in HKD in this HKD organization?

Paragraph 8: If you took last years seminar and got a BB, apparentely you could be eligible for a promotion. So if you made a BB higher than 1st Dan last year, you only have one year TIG for promotion?

I've seen this approach many times before. Its a bandwagon that people like to jump on because it is profitable and grows your instructor network.

Unfortunately, it also produces unqualified and/or under-qualified instructors. I would not consider any of these people to be learning actual hapkido; just culling techniques from hapkido to add to their TKD classes.

I would rather see them issue a hoshinsul certification. It would still be profitable and it would give the TKD instructors taking the course another certificate to hang on the wall. Its not like the bulk of their walk in customers actually know what hapkido is anyway, so what the certificate says is almost immaterial.

 

[miguksaram]

Has anyone tried contacting the IHF directly to clarify the actual requirements? Do you know if this was mass marketed to every martial art school or marketed directly to the TKD schools within the US Hanmookwan organization? Which IHF is sponsoring this and what is their overall record of quality? (If you look up International Hapkido Federation on google you will receive several different orgs with several different leaders)

 

[oftheherd1]

...

Unfortunately, it also produces unqualified and/or under-qualified instructors. I would not consider any of these people to be learning actual hapkido; just culling techniques from hapkido to add to their TKD classes.

QUOTE]

I once visited a dojang in Annandale, VA, which had big letters proclaiming they also taught Hapkido. The teacher wasn't there but his wife told me what time I should come back and closed up and started down the stairs, sort of dismissing me. I then asked her what style they taught. She stopped in her tracks, and gave me a much different look, then wanted to know if I knew Hapkido and if I had a black belt. She then wanted to introduce me to her husband who had come to pick her up.

I was polite, but didn't think I needed to ask any more questions. I haven't been back since. I think it is just what you are describing.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Has anyone tried contacting the IHF directly to clarify the actual requirements? Do you know if this was mass marketed to every martial art school or marketed directly to the TKD schools within the US Hanmookwan organization? Which IHF is sponsoring this and what is their overall record of quality? (If you look up International Hapkido Federation on google you will receive several different orgs with several different leaders)

The emblem on the right hand corner of the document is that of the IHF that generally comes to mind; GM Myung Jae Nam's organization.

I suspect that this is not an organizational program, but one being endorsed by a small group of instructors with enough rank to process dan applications.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

Has anyone tried contacting the IHF directly to clarify the actual requirements?

I believe the flyer was quite clear on the actual requirements; A TKD BB, attend at least 2-days of the seminar and two passport photos. No checks, Master Card or Visa only. As I mentioned earlier, what other requirements could they be possibly tested on, other than what was presented at the seminar?

Do you know if this was mass marketed to every martial art school or marketed directly to the TKD schools within the US Hanmookwan organization?

It is an open flyer on their website. It was brought to my attention by a Hapkido instructor that has nothing to do with the HMK. I see no restrictions for attendence mentioned in either the flyer or the website.

 

[miguksaram]

The emblem on the right hand corner of the document is that of the IHF that generally comes to mind; GM Myung Jae Nam's organization.

I suspect that this is not an organizational program, but one being endorsed by a small group of instructors with enough rank to process dan applications.

Which is why I wondered if anyone contacted them to clarify the requirements and who this was marketed to.

 

[miguksaram]

I believe the flyer was quite clear on the actual requirements; A TKD BB, attend at least 2-days of the seminar and two passport photos. No checks, Master Card or Visa only. As I mentioned earlier, what other requirements could they be possibly tested on, other than what was presented at the seminar?

So you did call them up to clarify your interpretation of the flyer correct?

It is an open flyer on their website. It was brought to my attention by a Hapkido instructor that has nothing to do with the HMK. I see no restrictions for attendence mentioned in either the flyer or the website.

Right on their website, which, for the most part, would be viewed by people from their organization. Do you know if they were marketing this to everyone? Did they post it on chat boards or do mass emails to the general population? I have very rarely heard of people restricting seminars to just their people. However, I also know a lot of schools may only advertise it within their own organization. If others get wind of it, that is just a bonus for them.

They may be selling rank. They may be testing people in their group who have been doing HKD for a while but never had a chance to test. I do not know for certain....do you? If you are to pass judgement, be sure to have all the facts first, that is all that I am trying to say.

 

[Tenchi]

I find it generally offensive for Martial Arts for one to be selling rank. Selling knowledge which allows for appropriate rank is one thing, but this is cutting through the difficulties and expertise any Dan should possess. I am a 2nd Dan of Taekwondo, and I certainly would not achieve the ability to be an Hapkido Dan in a mere two days. I'm sure many share my opinion.

 

[Kong Soo Do]

So you did call them up to clarify your interpretation of the flyer correct?

Why call to ask them what is already clearly presented in the flyer? No interpretation required, simply reading what they have put on paper.

Right on their website, which, for the most part, would be viewed by people from their organization. Do you know if they were marketing this to everyone? Did they post it on chat boards or do mass emails to the general population?

You have answered your own question;

I have very rarely heard of people restricting seminars to just their people.

They may be selling rank.

You think? You said it, not me. I'm just commenting on the contents of the flyer.

They may be testing people in their group who have been doing HKD for a while but never had a chance to test.

Well according to my instructor, who was HMK...as well as your buddy Glenn who knows GM LEE personally and has stated authoritatively...HMK TKD is strictly KKW sport TKD. No SD element beyond what is contained in the KKW curriculum. So 'doing HKD for a while' isn't within the scope of what the HMK is all about, according to the GM of HMK as well as those who are/were associated directly with them. And 'doing HKD for a while' isn't quite the same as actually training in HKD. Or do you disagree?

If you are to pass judgement, be sure to have all the facts first, that is all that I am trying to say.

Pass judgement? I don't recall having made a specific judgement really. I've offered the flyer and the facts of what the flyer states. Let the reader decide for themselves the merit of what is offered.

 

[oftheherd1]

So you did call them up to clarify your interpretation of the flyer correct?


Right on their website, which, for the most part, would be viewed by people from their organization. Do you know if they were marketing this to everyone? Did they post it on chat boards or do mass emails to the general population? I have very rarely heard of people restricting seminars to just their people. However, I also know a lot of schools may only advertise it within their own organization. If others get wind of it, that is just a bonus for them.

They may be selling rank. They may be testing people in their group who have been doing HKD for a while but never had a chance to test. I do not know for certain....do you? If you are to pass judgement, be sure to have all the facts first, that is all that I am trying to say.

It is probably not what you intended sir, but you sound as if you are defending the school's practices. I will join you in not being judgemental, except that I wonder how a TKD school can find the time to raise a TKD student from 1st to 2nd, or 2nd to 3rd, or whatever, in one year? Quite a feat wouldn't you think? And before you say they may have set aside their TKD curriculim to teach only Hapkido, why would they require the potential student to have a BB in TKD.

I think I can safely say you wouldn't run your school that way would you sir?

 

[miguksaram]

Why call to ask them what is already clearly presented in the flyer? No interpretation required, simply reading what they have put on paper.

Ok...so you did not call them. Are you afraid to contact them directly to confirm your assumption?

You have answered your own question;

No, I simply asked you to find out more information, which apparently you do not feel the need to. You seem content on just assuming your interpretation of the whole thing is 100% correct...which it could very well be, but alas, you will never know.

You think? You said it, not me. I'm just commenting on the contents of the flyer.

Do not try to put words in my mouth or quote only part of what I said. Here is what I said

They may be selling rank. They may be testing people in their group who have been doing HKD for a while but never had a chance to test. I do not know for certain

So I do not know what their intentions are, but then again, I am not the one posting this on a board with remarks like

Great news for anyone wanting a HKD BB to compliment their TKD BB, without the fuss of actually having to train for one (at least beyond two days).

Well according to my instructor, who was HMK...as well as your buddy Glenn who knows GM LEE personally and has stated authoritatively...HMK TKD is strictly KKW sport TKD. No SD element beyond what is contained in the KKW curriculum. So 'doing HKD for a while' isn't within the scope of what the HMK is all about, according to the GM of HMK as well as those who are/were associated directly with them. And 'doing HKD for a while' isn't quite the same as actually training in HKD. Or do you disagree?

I disagree with your interpretation. Because if you understood KKW TKD you would first, above all else, know that there is not such thing as KKW Sport TKD. There is KKW TKD, which has a sport aspect. Secondly KKW does not regulate what a school can and cannot have as part of their curriculum, outside of the requirements for KKW certification. This has been stated many times on this board, but some people either cannot grasp this concept or just choose to state or feel otherwise. With that said, the US HMK could have their own SD curriculum that is regulated by another organization. For all I know someone has been teaching them the IHF HKD curriculum. So those who have trained in it may not have received formal rank but could still know the curriculum. As I am not part of them I do not know. I can say without a doubt that if they do, then KKW would not care. Again, I am not the one posting this on here in the first place. I am simply asking if you did any research prior to posting it.

Pass judgement? I don't recall having made a specific judgement really. I've offered the flyer and the facts of what the flyer states. Let the reader decide for themselves the merit of what is offered.

On the contrary, your first post about this whole thing has already shown you to pass judgement. If you wanted the reader to decided for themselves you could have simply posted the link and said, "What do you think about this?" Instead you had to throw in your remarks which prejudice the reader from the beginning. You can deny not passing judgement, but the fact that you will not contact them directly for clarification of what they require or even for confirmation of what you believe it to be, shows that you have already decided what all of this is about.