My opinion on self defense. I want your opinions!

[WaterGal]

IWhat I've seen from many TKD schools is that their hosinsul curriculum seems to be a collection of counters (possibly derived from hapkido) to various (mostly static, mostly unrealistic) grabs. Often the techniques use an entirely different set of body mechanics and tactics from what is taught in the forms and in sparring. From my standpoint as a grappler, the execution and understanding of these techniques is often... not very impressive. This would be a typical example of the sort of stuff I usually see:

I only watched about 1/3 of the video, but from what I saw, I'd say they were pretty much 100% ripped from Hapkido. I'm guessing the person who put this curriculum together studied Hapkido for a year or two, but the guy demonstrating the techniques doesn't entirely understand the techniques and is often muscling through a technique that should be relying on leverage.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

In my opinion, it's rather a misnomer to call these techniques "self-defense", although I believe that is a more or less direct translation of "hosinsul", which is the general term for this portion of the TKD curriculum.

What I've seen from many TKD schools is that their hosinsul curriculum seems to be a collection of counters (possibly derived from hapkido) to various (mostly static, mostly unrealistic) grabs. Often the techniques use an entirely different set of body mechanics and tactics from what is taught in the forms and in sparring. From my standpoint as a grappler, the execution and understanding of these techniques is often... not very impressive. This would be a typical example of the sort of stuff I usually see:

This is a gross generalization, of course. I'm sure there are TKD schools where the hosinsul material is better thought out and more integrated with the rest of the curriculum. Perhaps some of the senior TKD practitioners here can offer some input on the subject.

Wow. Okay, now I revise my original post to @FlamingJulian. If the hosinsul you are experiencing is like this, I can entirely understand why it would seem so weak. You need to understand both the intention AND the principles necessary (in the clip Tony posted, there's really no control of the "attacker", and no realism in the attacks).

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Thanks. Yeah i was thinking like JKD something appreciate your answer. Very helpful


-Julian

I wouldn't go looking for a style. As so many have said before, visit schools and look at what they are doing. Look for a school that fits your need, not the art.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yeah that is true. Me and my brother have realistic sparring matches where we fight differently each match to simulate a real fight the best we can. We try to include realistic scenarios such as chokes and realistic reactions as well as realistic striking without rules. The only takedown I've ever landed was a leg catch and sweep from there. Self defense was no use at all so far. Me and my brother are both Tkd fighters at the same rank so that could be why it didn't work so far.


-Julian

It's almost certainly why. When I get on the mats with folks, I'm more likely to find opportunities for take-downs than you are, because that's about 80% of what I train for. I do like to work strikes, but you're more likely to see those opportunities, since that's nearly all you do. If you want to see the difference, start mixing it up with folks who do different arts. Get on the mats with a BJJ blue belt, and I almost guarantee you he'll find those takedowns for you.

 

[FlamingJulian]

It's almost certainly why. When I get on the mats with folks, I'm more likely to find opportunities for take-downs than you are, because that's about 80% of what I train for. I do like to work strikes, but you're more likely to see those opportunities, since that's nearly all you do. If you want to see the difference, start mixing it up with folks who do different arts. Get on the mats with a BJJ blue belt, and I almost guarantee you he'll find those takedowns for you.

How exactly do you guys do takedowns? Obviously there realistic unlike ours. But does someone punch and leave it there fore you to perform a takedown or what?


-Julian

 

[justkool141]

Hi julian


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[FlamingJulian]

I wouldn't go looking for a style. As so many have said before, visit schools and look at what they are doing. Look for a school that fits your need, not the art.

Yeahh true. Idk exactly my plan, I'll probably refer to one of you pros. I'm probably going to only train in TKD for now then one day I'll look at other styles. But nothing seems to be as perfect as Taekwondo so far but I started at 9 so that's what I like.


-Julian

 

[FlamingJulian]

Don't worry too much about the actual technique itself. The important thing is not to concentrate on that, but on the principals that make it work.

Techniques have a finite use, and it is not practical to learn a different counter for every possible attack. Principals however have an almost infinite application, and it is these principals that are the most important part of whatever counter you are being taught.

Dang u got good points. [emoji3]


-Julian

 

[FlamingJulian]

Hi julian


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Hi Justin


-Julian

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

How exactly do you guys do takedowns? Obviously there realistic unlike ours. But does someone punch and leave it there fore you to perform a takedown or what?

Most of the take down will require you to control your opponent's leading arm. When your opponent punches at you, you need to block/deflect and wrap his punching arm. Your take down will then start from there.

 

[FlamingJulian]

Most of the take down will require you to control your opponent's leading arm. When your opponent punches at you, you need to block/deflect and wrap his punching arm. Your take down will then start from there.

Ohh okay thnx. A lot more legit than Tkd takedowns


-Julian

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Ohh okay thnx. A lot more legit than Tkd takedowns


-Julian

To take your opponent down in a striking environment is different from wrestling or Judo environment.

Here are some good examples.

 

[FlamingJulian]

To take your opponent down in a striking environment is different from wrestling or Judo environment.

Here are some good examples.

Nice takedowns and it really caught my eye. The takedown that is a Tkd move is the one where he catches the leg and sweeps the other one


-Julian

 

[drop bear]

How exactly do you guys do takedowns? Obviously there realistic unlike ours. But does someone punch and leave it there fore you to perform a takedown or what?


-Julian

ok. it is a progression. so the easiest way to drill and effective takedown is to drill combinations.

and for now without getting complicated and off track I will say the primary aim of combinations is to counter defences. when someone defends they open themselves to an attack from another angle.

like tennis where you make a guy run from either side of the court to return the ball. each time someone defends they create an opening for an attack.

so at a single layer. You strike, they defend you throw them at a different point of their body. keep it head legs for now.

so I punch their head their hands go up I attack their legs.

or they punch my head their hands go up in attack their legs.

but people are not that stupid. so you add layers. you punch, they defend,you throw, now they defend that. so you then add another throw that works in combination with the first throw. that attacks the opening they create by defending that first throw.

and so on.

now it does not need to be a new throw every time. you can switch between two throws at its most basic level.

take it away Jason sKelly.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

How exactly do you guys do takedowns?

The "single leg" is the easiest take down (throw) to learn that you

- push on your opponent's shoulder, and
- pull his leg at the same time.

Anybody can learn it within 10 minutes.

 

[FlamingJulian]

The "single leg" is the easiest take down (throw) to learn that you

- push on your opponent's shoulder, and
- pull his leg at the same time.

Anybody can learn it within 10 minutes.

Oh Thank you!


-Julian

 

[FlamingJulian]

ok. it is a progression. so the easiest way to drill and effective takedown is to drill combinations.

and for now without getting complicated and off track I will say the primary aim of combinations is to counter defences. when someone defends they open themselves to an attack from another angle.

like tennis where you make a guy run from either side of the court to return the ball. each time someone defends they create an opening for an attack.

so at a single layer. You strike, they defend you throw them at a different point of their body. keep it head legs for now.

so I punch their head their hands go up I attack their legs.

or they punch my head their hands go up in attack their legs.

but people are not that stupid. so you add layers. you punch, they defend,you throw, now they defend that. so you then add another throw that works in combination with the first throw. that attacks the opening they create by defending that first throw.

and so on.

now it does not need to be a new throw every time. you can switch between two throws at its most basic level.

take it away Jason sKelly.

Thanks for breaking it down to me. Helps a ton


-Julian

 

[justkool141]

Tips for self defense! Research bruce lee's Philosophy and take some jkd


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[marques]

While I was looking around for the style I wanted to study, I visited a lot of martial arts schools...took a lot of free lessons. Sadly, MANY of them started me out with the "if someone grabs your wrist" shtick. The defensive moves you described are not useless, but the whole wrist-grabbing thing is unrealistic. I've witnessed a lot of street fights in my day. No one ever went for a wrist grab first. If I were you, I would check out some other schools. You want to find a style where, when you see it, you say, "Wow, I see how that could be applied!" You want something that speaks out to you, that strikes you as making sense the SECOND you see it.

At least, that is my opinion on it anyway...for what it's worth.

I also never saw a wrist grab attack. (Perhaps more possible if you have hands up... Happened to me in training.) But the defences are technically interesting...
On the other hand, things are not always self evident in a 'Second'. Sometimes things are decomposed and trained separately. And they only make sense when showed all together in an application.

 

[RTKDCMB]

In my opinion, it's rather a misnomer to call these techniques "self-defense", although I believe that is a more or less direct translation of "hosinsul", which is the general term for this portion of the TKD curriculum.

What I've seen from many TKD schools is that their hosinsul curriculum seems to be a collection of counters (possibly derived from hapkido) to various (mostly static, mostly unrealistic) grabs. Often the techniques use an entirely different set of body mechanics and tactics from what is taught in the forms and in sparring. From my standpoint as a grappler, the execution and understanding of these techniques is often... not very impressive. This would be a typical example of the sort of stuff I usually see:

This is a gross generalization, of course. I'm sure there are TKD schools where the hosinsul material is better thought out and more integrated with the rest of the curriculum. Perhaps some of the senior TKD practitioners here can offer some input on the subject.

I wouldn't read too much into how the techniques were executed the video seems to be either for an introduction for students learning the techniques for the first time or a reference for the techniques required for advancement. There are some techniques shown that I recognize from Hapkido. Number 17 looks like it was taken from Hwa rang hyung.