Muslims rewriting history?

[LuckyKBoxer]

I saw this today on someones facebook
I have never heard of this before, and wonder if its even true.
I am unsure of the source... but the CBN? I assume its probably Christian Broadcast Network..
anyways I found it interesting, but have no idea what to think one way or the other about it.

 

[granfire]

I take Glen Beck over CBN news any day....

(I am kind of puzzled as to the 'God revealed the Koran to Mohamed' deemed as mistake, unless OH EM GEE is must read Allah...)

 

[Tez3]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A1029313

People who discovered America!

I have read before that the Phoenicians had been the 'discoverers' of America, they weren't Muslims though. They did travel widely and made it to Cornwall here in the UK to trade for tin, whether they made it to America or not, who knows. They had the ships and the knowledge to sail that far by all accounts but the time scale is 1200 BCE to 900 BCE well before Islam.

 

[CanuckMA]

They have been rewriting history gor a long time. To this day, they remove artifacts from the Temple Mount without cataloging. The goal is to remove proof of the Jewish Temples, therefore proof of the Jewish presence.

Now, the question to ask Xtians is, if Muslims are successful at riding Jerusalem of proof of the Jewish Temple and presence, what happens to Jesus' story and the very foundation of your religion?

 

[Sukerkin]

They did indeed make it here to Blighty, Tez and traded and intermingled an awful lot too - the Cross of St. George is derived from a Phoenician symbol in fact!

 

[5-0 Kenpo]

They have been rewriting history gor a long time. To this day, they remove artifacts from the Temple Mount without cataloging. The goal is to remove proof of the Jewish Temples, therefore proof of the Jewish presence.

Now, the question to ask Xtians is, if Muslims are successful at riding Jerusalem of proof of the Jewish Temple and presence, what happens to Jesus' story and the very foundation of your religion?

Jesus' story is still there. If I remove a photo album from your home, does that do anything to diminish who and what you are, or what you stand for?

 

[CanuckMA]

Jesus' story is still there. If I remove a photo album from your home, does that do anything to diminish who and what you are, or what you stand for?

Different. If your story hinges on you growing up in a certain house and I come along and tear it down and destroy any records of that house having ever existed, what happens to your story?

If the Jews were never in Jerusalem, who was Jesus? If the Temple never stood, what was Jesus speaking about? who were those moneychangers he got angry with?

 

[WC_lun]

If a religion is based upon artifacts then it will disapear anyway. Most Jews that I know are comfortable enough in thier religious beliefs that Israel itself could disapear and they would still believe. Of course, I hope this does not happen, but you get my point. Most Christians I know don't base thier religious beliefs off anything other than thier specific church beliefs and the bible. This smells like more of the Muslims-are-attacking-you nonsense to stir up hate against followers of Islam.

 

[chrispillertkd]

If a religion is based upon artifacts then it will disapear anyway. Most Jews that I know are comfortable enough in thier religious beliefs that Israel itself could disapear and they would still believe. Of course, I hope this does not happen, but you get my point. Most Christians I know don't base thier religious beliefs off anything other than thier specific church beliefs and the bible. This smells like more of the Muslims-are-attacking-you nonsense to stir up hate against followers of Islam.

I don't think that CanuckMA was saying everybody would lose faith if the archaeological evidence for Judaism disappears. But let's not forget that humans are, by nature, historical creatures. We live in history, relate to history to understand ourselves, etc. You might lose all your pictures of your greatgrandparents in a fire but still remember them and how you saw them when you were growing up. You can even share the stories you remember of them with your children. But the feeling of being linked through history with your own family is much stronger if you can produce pictures, heirlooms, etc.

It is similar with Judaism and Christianity. They are decidedly historical religions that are inextricably linked to historical people and events. That is not being based on relics. While each person must decide for themselves whether or not the supernatural claims made warrant an assent of faith, if the historical evidence is disposed of, especially purposefully, then there is going to be a problem.

Pax,

Chris

 

[WC_lun]

I don't think that CanuckMA was saying everybody would lose faith if the archaeological evidence for Judaism disappears. But let's not forget that humans are, by nature, historical creatures. We live in history, relate to history to understand ourselves, etc. You might lose all your pictures of your greatgrandparents in a fire but still remember them and how you saw them when you were growing up. You can even share the stories you remember of them with your children. But the feeling of being linked through history with your own family is much stronger if you can produce pictures, heirlooms, etc.

It is similar with Judaism and Christianity. They are decidedly historical religions that are inextricably linked to historical people and events. That is not being based on relics. While each person must decide for themselves whether or not the supernatural claims made warrant an assent of faith, if the historical evidence is disposed of, especially purposefully, then there is going to be a problem.

Pax,

Chris

If you believe this then you should read Jewish history more closely. They have already gone through what you are describing and thier faith did NOT diminish.

 

[chrispillertkd]

If you believe this then you should read Jewish history more closely. They have already gone through what you are describing and thier faith did NOT diminish.

I have read Jewish history pretty closely. I taught college classes that dealt with it. Despite what the Jews suffered through history there is quite a bit if archaeological evidence left. A systematic attempt at erasing evidence is bad, regardless of what happened before. It's tantamount to theft. Saying that something like this has happened before with a certain result in no way minimizes what is going on. Nor does it, I might add, guarantee a similar result this time around.

Anyway, I noted that it's not a question of losing their faith. It's a question of feeling connected to your ancestors in order to better understand yourself.

Pax,

Chris

 

[CanuckMA]

The difference is that Jewish is not based on history. There is sufficient proof of uour presence in Israel to satisfy readings of Torah. The main tenets of my faith is the existence of G-d and His Covenant with my people.

My understanding of Xtianity is that it is based on Jesus being the son of G-d and having walked the earth. If the very evidence of places and times where he is alledged to have existed is destroyed, it reduces to story to, well, a story. There is virtually no extra-biblical evidence of Jesus's existence. The gospels are a circular argument if taken in a vacuum. The physical evidence of the Jewish Temple, and of the Jewish presence in Israel at that time help put the gospels into context and at least lead some form of credence to the stories. Remove the physical evidence and what are you left with?

That is the danger with this re-writing of history.

 

[CanuckMA]

If you believe this then you should read Jewish history more closely. They have already gone through what you are describing and thier faith did NOT diminish.

Our faith did not diminish, but we have never lost the history. We have been in that land since Abraham. There are records of our presence. While they are not necessary to our faith, they are the glue that tie Torah to our physical world. And it is a circular system. When you go to Israel for the first time, you identify places and names from what you have read in Torah. When you return, you read Torah differently, with a physical understanding. It's a different conection. You read about an event at a particular place, and it brings back vivid memories of having been there.

Let me put it in a concrete way. In Jerusalem, when you stand at the South-West corner of the Temple, near Robinsin's gate, you can see alcoves. I look at that and know that that is where pilgrims would purchase animals for the sacrifice. A Xtian will look at those and know that's where Jesus had his encounter with the money changers. Now imagine in a few generations if Muslims are successful in eradicating proff that the structue was the Second Temple. What are those alcoves?

 

[granfire]

Different. If your story hinges on you growing up in a certain house and I come along and tear it down and destroy any records of that house having ever existed, what happens to your story?

If the Jews were never in Jerusalem, who was Jesus? If the Temple never stood, what was Jesus speaking about? who were those moneychangers he got angry with?

I don't think you have to worry about that until the whole temple ount is carried off rock by rock and by then nobody probably cares.

History is a living thing, even past events are constantly under revue and reinterpreted.

 

[Ken Morgan]

It’s impossible and problematic to take into equal consideration all religious and cultures interpretations of historical events. Some we shouldn’t even consider taking into account because they ignore facts. Yes the Holocaust did happen, yes Vikings were in North America in the 11th century. Some facts ignore, diminish or paint some cultures in a bad light.

The Japanese interpretation of WW2 certainly is not what we have in our history books. The ongoing argument in the US about teaching evolution in the classroom, there is little disagreement from scientists but huge disagreements from religious groups.

An Islamic view of world history is similar to saying the Christian view of world history, or the Buddhist or the Hebrew. It’s all religious, it’s not coming from archeologists, palogeologists, or history professors, it’s coming from people who study religious texts.

The sooner we keep religion indoctrination out of the classroom, the sooner our education achievements will improve.

 

[billc]

The problem that is highlighted here is not the dependence of a religion and its history on artifacts, but the real problem is the effort to do so. They are trying, in this day and age, to destroy priceless artifacts and historical relics based on their religion. Look what the taliban has done in Afghanistan, what is happening in Israel. The fact that the radical extremists are attempting to blot out the record is the real problem, not wether they can succeed or not. They think they can, and they are going to do whatever it takes to get it done. Think of any other religion in the modern day coming on the relics of another religion, they would try to preserve the relics, at a minimum, for their historical value. Not the extremists in Islam. We are talking today, not the middle ages.

 

[granfire]

The problem that is highlighted here is not the dependence of a religion and its history on artifacts, but the real problem is the effort to do so. They are trying, in this day and age, to destroy priceless artifacts and historical relics based on their religion. Look what the taliban has done in Afghanistan, what is happening in Israel. The fact that the radical extremists are attempting to blot out the record is the real problem, not wether they can succeed or not. They think they can, and they are going to do whatever it takes to get it done. Think of any other religion in the modern day coming on the relics of another religion, they would try to preserve the relics, at a minimum, for their historical value. Not the extremists in Islam. We are talking today, not the middle ages.

That type of thing has been going on since before history:

The new ruler erradicting all traces of his predecessors. The father of King Tut is a very nice example. Or his widow.

many ancient statues fell victim to zealous Christians.

or stuff was sometimes simply smashed. Ignorance is bliss, never forget that.

However, considering CBN as source, I'd take it with a truckload of salt.

 

[billc]

that's why I mentioned, today, as opposed to the dark ages. This is happening now, not back in a time where this would have been a common practice.

 

[granfire]

that's why I mentioned, today, as opposed to the dark ages. This is happening now, not back in a time where this would have been a common practice.

You give the human race too much credit. We are still on the thresh hold of the cave we originate in...

In case you have not noticed, a lot of atrocities happened during the enlightened era of the last century...the next one is just around the corner. Paint is, when ever people become narrow minded, bad things happen. And yes, that does include too much of 'them right wingers' or 'them left wingers'

 

[Carol]

That doesn't make it right...