Muscle training?

SacredCoconut

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How important is muscle training in MA in this case karate?

I feel like i don't have much muscle strenght especially in arms and i'm small. I go to karate leasons twice a week and was wondering should i do more muscle training? If so do you think doing simple 2 set workout with out tools ones a days is enough. I'm reluctant to pay for gym, but doing more muscle training is kinda boring with out tools.

I don't have goal to get muscular body just balanced healthy body that allows to train MA better.
 

Bill Mattocks

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How important is muscle training in MA in this case karate?

I feel like i don't have much muscle strenght especially in arms and i'm small. I go to karate leasons twice a week and was wondering should i do more muscle training? If so do you think doing simple 2 set workout with out tools ones a days is enough. I'm reluctant to pay for gym, but doing more muscle training is kinda boring with out tools.

I don't have goal to get muscular body just balanced healthy body that allows to train MA better.

In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with weight and resistance training for the most part. However, much can be done by simply training in your martial art. And 'boring' basics such as sit-ups and push-ups should not be discounted, they are quite effective.

Also, consider cardio-vascular training that increases your ability to provide bursts of energy without getting gassed too quickly. Endurance can be as important as strength.

One last suggestion; don't confuse muscle with strength. Many muscular people who start martial arts training eventually find that using their muscle as opposed to proper body mechanics is something that hurts them rather than helps them as they progress. If you're not that muscular, you will have to learn properly to begin with, and that's not a bad thing. True strength in martial arts comes from good body mechanics, and that does not depend entirely on muscle. Most arts, I believe, teach this in one form or another. Proper technique overcomes massive muscle quite often.

Now, with the rare person who has both effective use of body mechanics AND are quite strong muscle-wise, that's a killer combination right there. But of the two, I'd prefer the former over the latter if I could only choose one.
 
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SacredCoconut

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I may have had some problems with the word choises as im not native english speaker. yeah i was asking is it important to have muscle and is just doing the muscle execises at leasons enough or is more needed.

I have no problem with basics like sit ups, but doing more than 10-30 min can be boring with out tools.

And thank you for info it was helpful
 

Bill Mattocks

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I may have had some problems with the word choises as im not native english speaker. yeah i was asking is it important to have muscle and is just doing the muscle execises at leasons enough or is more needed.

I have no problem with basics like sit ups, but doing more than 10-30 min can be boring with out tools.

And thank you for info it was helpful

Not a problem. I understand that English can be tricky.

What I mean is this. In most martial arts, the application of the techniques requires you to be able to call upon the resources of your body. That does mean muscle, but it also means using that muscle effectively, using your balance, your speed, and involving muscle groups that you might not think are normally involved. A punch, for example, can involve a lot more than the strength in your arm alone. So muscle training by itself can teach you to rely on muscle instead of proper technique. Good technique is better than lots of muscle. Good technique with muscle also is a great thing. If I had to choose one, it would be good technique.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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Just some food for thought, I weigh about 120-130 pounds. I am by no means muscular. However, I am fairly confident that I can beat a 'jacked' person with no formal experience in a fight (this confidence is not based on nothing. I don't go out picking fights, but I have been in a few with annoying jocks who picked on my friends in HS, and I won all of them). A 'jacked' person with fighting skills, well, that's a different story, but for me, stamina and technique are more important than just strength/muscle.
 

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One last suggestion; don't confuse muscle with strength. Many muscular people who start martial arts training eventually find that using their muscle as opposed to proper body mechanics is something that hurts them rather than helps them as they progress.

I know a few body builders who fit this description. A bud and I used to surprise them at the gym. "Paper Tigers" is what we used to call them
 

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Many historical karateka used all kinds weight lifting practices to build up their muscle strength, try googling "hojo undo." It was considered an essential part of the practice of karate.
 

Buka

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Start with a hundred pushups a day, done in sets to suit your fitness level. Work your core. This should be done daily, outside of your Martial class training.

Increase your pushups to five hundred a day by the end of year one. Work your core. Keep increasing every year. Pushups are not an arm exercise, they are an exercise in discipline.

If a yearly breakdown seems out of reach, take up a new sport. Not trying to be cold here, just honest. :)
 

rframe

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It's all a matter of balancing many tools and assets. Strength is good. Speed is good. Endurance is good. Agility is good. Balance is good. Technique is good. Lacking any of these is a pretty serious weakness to a martial artist. These are all things that must be developed with effort. None will be developed very well in just two classes per week, so you need to develop habits to build these and other areas regularly.

If your question is about weight training, sure it can be helpful but would be low on my priority list. I average a couple short circuits of weights each week. I spend much more time doing functional fitness, calisthenics, isometrics, and the like, moving my body. I build more "relevant" strength this way.

If doing a repetitive set of pushups and situps and squats gets boring, I dont blame you, I get bored too.... so if you're not doing one, I'd look at a DVD based HIT program. They've already thought out the balance issues and it's more like attending a group session, good tips, good music, good motivation. I do much better with a program like this than just having a list of exercises to go do.

As one example, I personally really like Georges St Pierre's RUSHFIT system. It's not an overwhelming time commitment but is well balanced and gives you a great workout when you adjust your intensity, and the movements often have direct relationship to a martial artists needs.
 
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SacredCoconut

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As continuation question if i'm just going to do predetermined amount of repeative training daily what would be good list of moves? I'm realy bad at making training for my self as i feel like i just don't know enough. Some HIT program could be nice as i would not need to.
 

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Depends on the martial art and your focus. I train heavy on the side since I practice Judo and compete in the heavyweight divisions. So when I am not training, I am either running or powerlifting.

This topic has been discussed before in great detail so try doing a search to see some of the earlier responses.
 

Bill Mattocks

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Apparently, I am being misunderstood. Let me be more clear.

There is nothing wrong with weight or strength training. Stronger is generally better.

HOWEVER, if you do not have proper body mechanics, being strong CAN be a liability, because you will tend to use your power to perform techniques, rather than align your body properly to generate power and ward off strikes.

If I had the choice between proper body mechanics and strength in martial arts, I would choose proper body mechanics. And if I have to put them in order of importance to martial arts training, I would put body mechanics first, strength training second.

I believe it is infinitely preferable to first learn how to generate power, how to use your body correctly, and THEN, if desired or necessary, to add muscle. Muscle added to proper technique will enhance your abilities greatly.

But muscle as a substitute for good body mechanics is not wise for martial arts training. Muscle can and will fail. Good body mechanics are yours for life.

That's my opinion on the subject.
 
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SacredCoconut

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I did understand and it made me give up the idea of going to gym, but i still feel like i should do at least some training home. I was thinking like doing 50 sit ups, push ups and squats. (is there basic move i'm missing?)
 

Bill Mattocks

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I did understand and it made me give up the idea of going to gym, but i still feel like i should do at least some training home. I was thinking like doing 50 sit ups, push ups and squats. (is there basic move i'm missing?)

I wasn't suggesting giving up going to the gym. I was suggesting that you make sure you're learning good body mechanics as you train in martial arts. If you trust in your strength it will always let you down in the end. If you trust in your training, it will not.

If you want an exercise to do at home that will assist you in every possible way, get a jump rope and spend ten minutes a day with it. Challenge yourself to build up speed, endurance, and balance. The simple jump rope may be the best tool ever invented for the martial artist or fighter.
 
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SacredCoconut

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I may have worded it wrong. I alredy hesitated going to gym and your post made the chose easier. Rope is good one i havent thought (It would be nice warming up as well).
 

Bill Mattocks

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I may have worded it wrong. I alredy hesitated going to gym and your post made the chose easier. Rope is good one i havent thought (It would be nice warming up as well).

Understood, thanks. Jumping rope is a classic exercise that offers many advantages. It builds the cardiovascular system, helps the reflexes and it teaches timing. It is infinitely variable; as you get better, you can go faster and challenge yourself more and more. By doing 'tricks' with the rope, you can avoid boredom and also learn footwork, balance, and gain even more speed and timing. Boxers have been doing it since the beginning, and it is just a great all-around training tool. You never run out of the jump rope's capabilities, you can take it with you anywhere, and you can do it without a huge training space or a lot of preparation.

http://www.fightscope.com/fitness-endurance/skipping/
 

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As continuation question if i'm just going to do predetermined amount of repeative training daily what would be good list of moves? I'm realy bad at making training for my self as i feel like i just don't know enough. Some HIT program could be nice as i would not need to.

For some good varations on bodyweight workouts, try some of these:

http://www.trainforstrength.com/workouts.shtml

Some of them require various gear, but at least three are straight bodyweight, have fun, they will kick you ***.
 

rickster

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Apparently, I am being misunderstood. Let me be more clear.

There is nothing wrong with weight or strength training. Stronger is generally better.

HOWEVER, if you do not have proper body mechanics, being strong CAN be a liability, because you will tend to use your power to perform techniques, rather than align your body properly to generate power and ward off strikes.

If I had the choice between proper body mechanics and strength in martial arts, I would choose proper body mechanics. And if I have to put them in order of importance to martial arts training, I would put body mechanics first, strength training second.

I believe it is infinitely preferable to first learn how to generate power, how to use your body correctly, and THEN, if desired or necessary, to add muscle. Muscle added to proper technique will enhance your abilities greatly.

But muscle as a substitute for good body mechanics is not wise for martial arts training. Muscle can and will fail. Good body mechanics are yours for life.

That's my opinion on the subject.

I haven't misunderstood
 

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