"Money buys Freedom but not always happiness?"

[Chrisinmd]

I had an interesting discussion with a family member that you could buy freedom but not always happiness. I guess my take would be that this is at least partially true. From my personal experience I can buy plenty of things that are fun. Great vacation or experience that I really enjoy and had a lot of fun doing. Or an item i really enjoy. Not sure once these experiences are over im happy though. Guess I have good fun / happy memories to remember and smile about. Guess the other question would be if you are having fun are you happy? Are they one in the same thing?

I would relate this to drinking by saying when I go to a great party I have fun in the moment.

I would agree 100 percent that money buys freedom. Ive been poor earlier in my life and now I would say im comfortably middle class. Its no fun to be living paycheck to paycheck and worrying how you can put food on the table and pay the bills. Stuck in a job you hate because you have really no choice because you need the money. Money gives you the freedom to not worry about a lot of different things and pursue your hobbies and passions that you truly enjoy. Cant do that if your working 60 hours a week to survive


So any thoughts on "Money buys Freedom but not always happiness?"

 

[jobo]

I had an interesting discussion with a family member that you could buy freedom but not always happiness. I guess my take would be that this is at least partially true. From my personal experience I can buy plenty of things that are fun. Great vacation or experience that I really enjoy and had a lot of fun doing. Or an item i really enjoy. Not sure once these experiences are over im happy though. Guess I have good fun / happy memories to remember and smile about. Guess the other question would be if you are having fun are you happy? Are they one in the same thing?

I would relate this to drinking by saying when I go to a great party I have fun in the moment.

I would agree 100 percent that money buys freedom. Ive been poor earlier in my life and now I would say im comfortably middle class. Its no fun to be living paycheck to paycheck and worrying how you can put food on the table and pay the bills. Stuck in a job you hate because you have really no choice because you need the money. Money gives you the freedom to not worry about a lot of different things and pursue your hobbies and passions that you truly enjoy. Cant do that if your working 60 hours a week to survive


So any thoughts on "Money buys Freedom but not always happiness?"

money doesn't buy freedom unless you've got enough to buy your own island.
it does however give you options, there are things you can choose not to do and thinks you can choose to do, that aren't available to those that are living payday to payday.

there a connection between mental well being and poverty, but not between happiness and increasing amounts of money. you just want more and unnecessary things . that in themselves will not increase your happiness at all

drunken fun isn't happiness, unless your still happy the next day, that why people buy alcohol, its happiness in a bottle

 

[Chrisinmd]

it does however give you options, there are things you can choose not to do and thinks you can choose to do, that aren't available to those that are living payday to payday.

Very well said. That was my point exactly. "Options" is probably the better term for it that you used then how I described it as freedom.

Your correct happiness dosent increase with more money after a certain point. I seen a study that says once you hit the $70,000 a year any money on top of that dosent make you much more happier. Of course 70,000 grand goes a lot farther in rural Kansas than it does in New York City so you have to take cost of living into account. So basically once you have your basic needs are meant and you are comfortable any additional money doesn't increase your happiness that much.

 

[Martial D]

I had an interesting discussion with a family member that you could buy freedom but not always happiness. I guess my take would be that this is at least partially true. From my personal experience I can buy plenty of things that are fun. Great vacation or experience that I really enjoy and had a lot of fun doing. Or an item i really enjoy. Not sure once these experiences are over im happy though. Guess I have good fun / happy memories to remember and smile about. Guess the other question would be if you are having fun are you happy? Are they one in the same thing?

I would relate this to drinking by saying when I go to a great party I have fun in the moment.

I would agree 100 percent that money buys freedom. Ive been poor earlier in my life and now I would say im comfortably middle class. Its no fun to be living paycheck to paycheck and worrying how you can put food on the table and pay the bills. Stuck in a job you hate because you have really no choice because you need the money. Money gives you the freedom to not worry about a lot of different things and pursue your hobbies and passions that you truly enjoy. Cant do that if your working 60 hours a week to survive


So any thoughts on "Money buys Freedom but not always happiness?"

I would disagree on both counts. It doesn't buy you either.

Some of the happiest people I know have nothing, while some of the most miserable c#nts are rich.

Freedom..yes and no. Generally those that have lots are slaves to it. Sure they have more options, but they don't always really as their lives are enslaved to getting more and keeping it.

 

[Buka]

Money might not buy happiness, but it's one hell of a down payment. I can say that because I've spent most of my life happy without having the accompanying money

But, heck fire and golly gee, I'd much rather cry in a Bentley. I'd look the berries in a Bentley.

 

[granfire]

try being poor and see how free you are.

 

[drop bear]

I had an interesting discussion with a family member that you could buy freedom but not always happiness. I guess my take would be that this is at least partially true. From my personal experience I can buy plenty of things that are fun. Great vacation or experience that I really enjoy and had a lot of fun doing. Or an item i really enjoy. Not sure once these experiences are over im happy though. Guess I have good fun / happy memories to remember and smile about. Guess the other question would be if you are having fun are you happy? Are they one in the same thing?

I would relate this to drinking by saying when I go to a great party I have fun in the moment.

I would agree 100 percent that money buys freedom. Ive been poor earlier in my life and now I would say im comfortably middle class. Its no fun to be living paycheck to paycheck and worrying how you can put food on the table and pay the bills. Stuck in a job you hate because you have really no choice because you need the money. Money gives you the freedom to not worry about a lot of different things and pursue your hobbies and passions that you truly enjoy. Cant do that if your working 60 hours a week to survive


So any thoughts on "Money buys Freedom but not always happiness?"

I raised this idea in another thread.

There is a difference between happiness and fulfillment.

And I think people confuse the two.

 

[laurameida]

In fact, it all depends on what happiness is for you. For someone, happiness is millions of dollars, and for someone, happiness is a sip of water. But as for me, I think otherwise. My happiness is not money, my happiness is what I can get for money. My dream is to travel around the world, and it's quite expensive. And if I have a lot of money, then I will be able to travel around the world. In this case, am I buying my happiness? Or do I achieve it with the help of money? Everyone thinks in their own way, but for me, money is not the ultimate goal, but just a tool that will help me achieve my goal. So people who are chasing money are fools for me, you need to chase your dream, and money will help you in this.

 

[Chrisinmd]

My happiness is not money, my happiness is what I can get for money. My dream is to travel around the world, and it's quite expensive. And if I have a lot of money, then I will be able to travel around the world. In this case, am I buying my happiness? Or do I achieve it with the help of money? Everyone thinks in their own way, but for me, money is not the ultimate goal, but just a tool that will help me achieve my goal.

Very true. Traveling to new places makes me happy. I need money to accomplish it. So its not the money itself that makes me happy but that is allows me to pursue my interests and passions.

For example if a guy gets true joy from riding his brand new Harley motorcycle he got the joy as a result of having the money to buy the motorcycle in the first place!

 

[Steve]

I had an interesting discussion with a family member that you could buy freedom but not always happiness. I guess my take would be that this is at least partially true. From my personal experience I can buy plenty of things that are fun. Great vacation or experience that I really enjoy and had a lot of fun doing. Or an item i really enjoy. Not sure once these experiences are over im happy though. Guess I have good fun / happy memories to remember and smile about. Guess the other question would be if you are having fun are you happy? Are they one in the same thing?

I would relate this to drinking by saying when I go to a great party I have fun in the moment.

I would agree 100 percent that money buys freedom. Ive been poor earlier in my life and now I would say im comfortably middle class. Its no fun to be living paycheck to paycheck and worrying how you can put food on the table and pay the bills. Stuck in a job you hate because you have really no choice because you need the money. Money gives you the freedom to not worry about a lot of different things and pursue your hobbies and passions that you truly enjoy. Cant do that if your working 60 hours a week to survive


So any thoughts on "Money buys Freedom but not always happiness?"

I have worked with people who are desperately poor, usually disabled. I'm talking about people who have a net worth of less than a couple of thousand dollars. There's a point where people have enough money to start thinking about more than survival, where the stress of worrying about whether you can pay rent next month, buy food, pay for medicine, keep gas in the car, stops gnawing at your stomach. I've been that poor. My family has been that poor. There was a time, after I got out of the Air Force, where I couldn't get a job, had no heat or electricity turned on in my (literally) rat infested apartment, and was eating a stack of pancakes every three days because it was the cheapest thing that I could order and was filling.

I can tell you from both my personal and professional experience that poverty ages you. It causes health issues. It can affect your behavior and your cognitive function. Every thought you have is about short term survival. Where's my next meal? How am I paying for gas? Can I pay rent? You have no bandwidth to think strategically about long term goals, and any higher level functioning is right out.

Having money, in my opinion, isn't necessarily about being rich. It's about having enough money that you can literally afford to think about other things.

 

[Urban Trekker]

For me, you're not truly free unless you're free from responsibility. And the people that are the closest to experiencing that type of freedom are the homeless. More money means more responsibility. Why? Because you have more to lose. You're free when you have nothing to lose.

For example: say the wrong thing on social media, and you'll lose your cushy job. You think homeless people are worried about that? Hell no. Once they've solved the problem of getting a bite to eat and finding a spot where they can get some undisturbed sleep, they're good for the day.

 

[Steve]

For me, you're not truly free unless you're free from responsibility. And the people that are the closest to experiencing that type of freedom are the homeless. More money means more responsibility. Why? Because you have more to lose. You're free when you have nothing to lose.

For example: say the wrong thing on social media, and you'll lose your cushy job. You think homeless people are worried about that? Hell no. Once they've solved the problem of getting a bite to eat and finding a spot where they can get some undisturbed sleep, they're good for the day.

I don't know how to react to this post. Do you know some people who are homeless by choice in a search for "true freedom?" I've worked with a lot of people who are homeless, and seen a lot of different things that have led them there, but that's a new one for me.

 

[Urban Trekker]

I don't know how to react to this post. Do you know some people who are homeless by choice in a search for "true freedom?" I've worked with a lot of people who are homeless, and seen a lot of different things that have led them there, but that's a new one for me.

I'm fully aware that the majority of the homeless are in their situation due to things like psychiatric conditions, severe drug addiction that prevents them from functioning normally in society, etc.

There are various different terminologies for homeless people (each with their own meanings), but most hobos (defined as homeless people who lead a "drifter" lifestyle, and earn money by performing odd jobs and day labor) are voluntarily homeless.

I actually would have taken a stab at that lifestyle myself, but I got married and had children before I gained an interest in it.

I suppose that, whether or not a particular person's homelessness is voluntary, they're fully aware of their freedom.

One example that proves this, is the refusal of many to sleep in homeless shelters in order to avoid living by someone else's rules.

 

[Argus]

Assets buy you freedom. Liabilities take it away.

If you have a net worth of $10 million, but you buy a yacht, an extremely expensive house, expensive cars, etc. etc., how free are you? You had better work really hard if your yearly expenses are $9 million.

On the other hand, if you are willing to live a modest life, and have maybe $80,000 in expenses per year, but have a $1,000,000 portfolio producing income for you, then heck yeah, you have a lot of freedom. More so than the guy who is living up to his means, no matter how much he makes.

One of my goals is to, some day, attain this sort of financial freedom so that I can do more of what I really care the most about. If you can save and invest and live modestly, that allows you to do all kinds of really meaningful things in life, be it traveling, volunteering, starting a meaningful business, devoting time to creative or intellectual pursuits, or, indeed, training with the people you want to, all over the world. Buy land, start a farm, open a martial arts school -- whatever it is that you really want to do and which will actually enrich your life.

The value of money is dependent on you, and how you use it. If you spend it on liabilities, you'll simply enslave yourself to lifestyle creep. Invest it wisely, and you will gain more freedom and options, not less.

 

[Tez3]

Interesting that money defines what class you are in the US, elsewhere it doesn't ,where changing your class because your financial situation changes doesn't really happen, you can be rich working class or poor middle class even upper class (the theme for many an English novel). It's an interesting subject.

I saw an interesting quote the other day, "you are only rich when you have something money can't buy"

 

[Urban Trekker]

We're in a martial arts forum, talking about money and freedom, and the big shocker is that Fight Club hasn't come up yet!

If you haven't yet seen it (or read the book), it illustrates a lot of what I'm talking about.

Two of my favorite quotes from Fight Club:

- "It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything."

- "...working jobs we hate, so we can buy $#!+ that we don't need."

 

[Urban Trekker]

Interesting that money defines what class you are in the US, elsewhere it doesn't ,

Money defines your class in countries that do not have royalty, nobility, peerage, or existing remnants thereof.

In fact, this is even moreso the case in Latin America than in the US.

Brazil, a country whose race problems aren't much different than in many other counties, has a saying: "Money whitens."

What that means is that a monoracial dark-skinned black Brazilian is basically "white," if he has enough money. Not the case in the US by a long shot. You can be president of the US and still get called the n-word.

 

[Steve]

Interesting that money defines what class you are in the US, elsewhere it doesn't ,where changing your class because your financial situation changes doesn't really happen, you can be rich working class or poor middle class even upper class (the theme for many an English novel). It's an interesting subject.

I saw an interesting quote the other day, "you are only rich when you have something money can't buy"

Now I feel like I need to go read Mansfield Park again.

 

[Steve]

We're in a martial arts forum, talking about money and freedom, and the big shocker is that Fight Club hasn't come up yet!

If you haven't yet seen it (or read the book), it illustrates a lot of what I'm talking about.

Two of my favorite quotes from Fight Club:

- "It's only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything."

- "...working jobs we hate, so we can buy $#!+ that we don't need."

I think you have a very romantic idea of homelessness and freedom. My experience with homelessness, personally and professionally, is that it's stressful, unhealthy, and generally involuntary. Whether someone who is homeless trusts institutions is unrelated to whether they are homeless by choice, as a part of some noble pursuit of freedom.

To be clear, I think Thorstein Veblen was right when he first defined conspicuous consumption and the idea of ceremonial adequacy back around the turn of the 20th century. But financial stability is not the same as gross consumerism.

 

[Urban Trekker]

I think you have a very romantic idea of homelessness and freedom. My experience with homelessness, personally and professionally, is that it's stressful, unhealthy, and generally involuntary.

So I have experienced homelessness, and I'll admit that my claim to homelessness is one that someone who has ever lived in a box on Skid Row would laugh at:

While I was active duty, I was going through a divorce. We were living in base housing, but the rule is that I can't continue living there if I'm separated and the spouse has moved out.

I had to pay spousal support, and because of all the debts I was stuck with upon separating, I would not have had the money pay the spousal support if I had accepted single living quarters (because you don't get BAH, or basic allowance for housing, if you're assigned quarters - whether single or family unit).

There was one exception to this: there was what was called "geo-bachelor barracks," which existed for married personnel whose spouses lived outside of the area. And because the military isn't legally obligated to offer them, there's no standards that geo-bachelor barracks are required to meet.

I learned this the hard way when I tried to check in: it was open bay, with beds separated by stained curtains. The floor had missing tiles - I mean, the place was just filthy.

So I went right back and handed them the key, and decided to sleep in my car.

I did this for a few months, until the divorce was final, and I was able to get my own apartment again.

During those months, I kept separate boxes of clean and dirty laundry in the trunk, I took showers at the gym every morning, and I had friends who allowed me to iron my uniforms at their place. I also had a friend at Pizza Hut who would give me food at the end of her shift, from call-in orders that never got picked up.

Would I do that again for "freedom," if I didn't have a wife and children to take care of? Yes.