Modernization of Ninjutsu

Jusroc

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back to the original intention of the post.
I think that Ninjutsu could be resigned for the modern world.

Not sport orientated
But for helping people become effective at defending themselves, others and society under various different circumstances.

Problem with sport is that the strong willed, intelligent and strong bodied often prevail.
The problem with that, is that those who are already superior intellectually, and physically, with stronger will power aren't the most vulnerable.

Through life, being diagnosed with Autism Spectrum Disorder, and coming into contact with loads of other people with ASD. I have realised that the people who need to learn to defend themselves the most, can often be those who will not flourish in a competitive combat sport environment, no matter how good the style is.

That is a flaw with a lot of martial art classes, is that in some cases, the students (and sometime even the instructors) turn into even bigger bullies.

I think that Stephen K Hayes is an interesting guy, open minded to developments. but also has a strong focus in the moral / spiritual aspects of ninjutsu.

As Ninjutsu, learnt un-tethered to a good honest spiritual path, can be extremely dangerous, especially to self stylist wanna be ninja's who learn the style so to use the art for their own selfish purposes.

People forget, Ninjutsu really was ancient spy craft, which in its full authenticity does teach people how to murder and ruin peoples lives.

People who are not grounded with strong spiritual values, may be endanger of being tempted into using illegal harmful ancient ninja strategy to get what they want out of life.

I have seen it myself, with several of the people whom i grew up with.
Several of the people are now psychotic, and I believe it is possible that they have taken life or lives,
while experimenting with strategies they have picked up from reading in the historical books on ninjutsu.

Note. The type of things these people have done they learnt from historical stories rather than direct teachings from a qualified and grounded instructor.

That is a danger with the arts that are associated with the Historical Ninja.
Tend to attract more than their fare share of nuts, who are attracted to the covert criminal methodology.

Nothing against legitimate schools.
The nuts would argue (using volatile mind science arguments) that in reality, their is no difference in them making up their own style or practising an established style. both were created by men after all.

This being true the authentic ninjutsu however has a lineage and a responsibility is there for the instructors to teach morally, ideally, while giving spiritual guidance to ensure that no one ends up on the wrong path.

This perhaps is something that needs to be emphasised in all martial arts.
Especially in this day and age of MMA (which i also like)

That is my take on it anyhow, for what its worth.
:)
 

drop bear

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Rickson is much harder to hold down because he trains in that environment. It's not a matter of a difference between "modernisation vs just working well", as you haven't really differentiated them for one thing, but more importantly, you're just saying that training to a focus and a context works better for that focus and context... well, yeah. The biggest issue is you guys all want to use your focus and context to represent all martial approaches... and the world is a lot bigger than that.

Ok. It was suggested here somewhere that say instead of learning sword defense you would learn beer bottle defence.

But in essence if you have the base components right it doesn't matter that much.

And if you don't then modernisation won't help.

Which leads on to BJJ. As a general the guys doing grappling for self defense have nowhere near the knowledge of the Rickson gracies.

And so you are better off training with the knowledgeable guy and converting it. Rather than train the conversion with a less knowledgeable guy.

And so when you are modernising your system. It has to work first.
 

Hanzou

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back to the original intention of the post.
I think that Ninjutsu could be resigned for the modern world.

Not sport orientated
But for helping people become effective at defending themselves, others and society under various different circumstances.

Problem with sport is that the strong willed, intelligent and strong bodied often prevail.
The problem with that, is that those who are already superior intellectually, and physically, with stronger will power aren't the most vulnerable.

What exactly is "sport oriented"?

BJJ has a sport component, but it also has a self defense component. The benefit of the sport component is that it keeps the martial art sharp and enhances the overall skill of the participants. The sport component also allows quite a bit of innovation because competitors are constantly trying to find ways to be better than their competition. This bleeds back into the self defense portion of the art. Leg locks are a prime example of this.

Also any martial art worth its salt should make you strong willed, intelligent, and strong bodied. If it doesn't, then it isn't doing its job and you should look elsewhere.

The problem with arts like Ninjutsu is that there isn't a competitive impetus for new ideas and concepts to flourish. Nor is there a true testing ground to make sure that even the old methods are sound and practical. Thus the art stagnates and it begins to devolve instead of evolve.
 

drop bear

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back to the original intention of the post.
I think that Ninjutsu could be resigned for the modern world.

Not sport orientated
But for helping people become effective at defending themselves, others and society under various different circumstances.

Problem with sport is that the strong willed, intelligent and strong bodied often prevail.
The problem with that, is that those who are already superior intellectually, and physically, with stronger will power aren't the most vulnerable.

Through life, being diagnosed with Autism Spectrum Disorder, and coming into contact with loads of other people with ASD. I have realised that the people who need to learn to defend themselves the most, can often be those who will not flourish in a competitive combat sport environment, no matter how good the style is.

That is a flaw with a lot of martial art classes, is that in some cases, the students (and sometime even the instructors) turn into even bigger bullies.

I think that Stephen K Hayes is an interesting guy, open minded to developments. but also has a strong focus in the moral / spiritual aspects of ninjutsu.

As Ninjutsu, learnt un-tethered to a good honest spiritual path, can be extremely dangerous, especially to self stylist wanna be ninja's who learn the style so to use the art for their own selfish purposes.

People forget, Ninjutsu really was ancient spy craft, which in its full authenticity does teach people how to murder and ruin peoples lives.

People who are not grounded with strong spiritual values, may be endanger of being tempted into using illegal harmful ancient ninja strategy to get what they want out of life.

I have seen it myself, with several of the people whom i grew up with.
Several of the people are now psychotic, and I believe it is possible that they have taken life or lives,
while experimenting with strategies they have picked up from reading in the historical books on ninjutsu.

Note. The type of things these people have done they learnt from historical stories rather than direct teachings from a qualified and grounded instructor.

That is a danger with the arts that are associated with the Historical Ninja.
Tend to attract more than their fare share of nuts, who are attracted to the covert criminal methodology.

Nothing against legitimate schools.
The nuts would argue (using volatile mind science arguments) that in reality, their is no difference in them making up their own style or practising an established style. both were created by men after all.

This being true the authentic ninjutsu however has a lineage and a responsibility is there for the instructors to teach morally, ideally, while giving spiritual guidance to ensure that no one ends up on the wrong path.

This perhaps is something that needs to be emphasised in all martial arts.
Especially in this day and age of MMA (which i also like)

That is my take on it anyhow, for what its worth.
:)

In relation to this. Here is a segment on gendered marketing.


See if you can work out how it applies.
 

Jusroc

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I think that many of the traditional jiu jitsu techniques (including the ones that come from Ninjutsu)
technically work, as the body physiology hasn't changed.

What has changed is how people attack.
So its not necessarily the techniques that need to change, its how people attack / i.e. how you train to use the techniques.

Years ago I did aikido for two years, after haven trained in Kenpo for 10 years, and later I did BJJ and Judo.

It is my opinion that the aikido techniques work (mostly as arm locks) because they are technically correct,
the way that the Aikidoka trains however, often isn't as realistic as they could do, which means that the Aikidoka doesn't pick up as much experience applying their techniques against a realistic full forcefully resisting moving, thinking, free fighting opponent.

Although arguably it may be hard to realise such a latter training method due to the lethality of some of the techniques used. Even in Judo,and BJJ which has taken out a great deal of the more dangerous techniques, it is still easy to get injured if one is not careful.

I do think that for some techniques however, it would be possible to pressure test them to a level
(for example, ikkyo and sankyo could be applied with control against a simulated free fighting attacker, as long as the attacker is aware of the dangers and learns not to be cocky and not submit / be careful when put into a lock).

That is what i recommend, although, needs to be approached progressively. and apply extreme caution at every step of the way, as if you do not, you can do a great deal of damage to your opponents body including permanent damage to your partners limbs / ligaments / bones.
 
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Yamabushii

Yamabushii

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In the sense of a physical altercation/violent sudden attack.
Wait...so you have never had to physically use your Ninpo training to defend yourself or someone else?


bluntly, with your few years of training and involvement, you're not in that much of a position to laugh at people who have have been doing it a lot longer, and understand the layout a lot better than you do.

Bluntly, you're too arrogant for your own good. I have spent about 15-17 years in martial arts as a whole at this point. Your three decades in Ninpo means very little when you have admitted in this very thread that you practice 95% just kata in your training, and also that you have never even had to use your physical techniques against a stranger whose intentions you know nothing about. There are sadly many people who have spent several years just practicing kata only to find out their techniques don't actually work against people resisting. I am starting to see quite a bit of similarity between yourself and Rokas before he realized his years of practicing kata did very little for him. You are not my senior, my friend.

Best of luck to you in your training.
 

Jusroc

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Wait...so you have never had to physically use your Ninpo training to defend yourself or someone else?




Bluntly, you're too arrogant for your own good. I have spent about 15-17 years in martial arts as a whole at this point. Your three decades in Ninpo means very little when you have admitted in this very thread that you practice 95% just kata in your training, and also that you have never even had to use your physical techniques against a stranger whose intentions you know nothing about. There are sadly many people who have spent several years just practicing kata only to find out their techniques don't actually work against people resisting. I am starting to see quite a bit of similarity between yourself and Rokas before he realized his years of practicing kata did very little for him. You are not my senior, my friend.

Best of luck to you in your training.
Hello Mr Yamabushi
Just out of interest, is your last post aimed at me?
There are some quotes in your post which are nothing to do with me. So am a little confused.
 

Jusroc

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Hi Mr Yamabushii
I understand. I also can find forums a bit of a challenge at times.
I don't always do what I am supposed and am sometimes oblivious to people's
expectations due to rules.
Thanks
 

Tony Dismukes

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Still learning how to quote properly in this forum.
If you want to just quote selected text rather than an entire post, first select the text you wish to quote. You should then get a little pop-up offering you the choice to "quote" or "reply". If you choose "reply", then you will begin a new post with just that selection quoted. If you choose "quote", then the selection will be added to a sort of clipboard and you can select/quote other pieces of text as you wish. Then when you are ready to make a post, use the "Insert quotes" button at the bottom of the Post Reply text box. This will allow you to insert whichever selected quotes you like in whatever order.
 

Jusroc

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If you want to just quote selected text rather than an entire post, first select the text you wish to quote. You should then get a little pop-up offering you the choice to "quote" or "reply". If you choose "reply", then you will begin a new post with just that selection quoted. If you choose "quote", then the selection will be added to a sort of clipboard and you can select/quote other pieces of text as you wish. Then when you are ready to make a post, use the "Insert quotes" button at the bottom of the Post Reply text box. This will allow you to insert whichever selected quotes you like in whatever order.
Thanks for the advice. I shall keep it in mind the next time i need to quote.
Thanks
 
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Yamabushii

Yamabushii

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If you want to just quote selected text rather than an entire post, first select the text you wish to quote. You should then get a little pop-up offering you the choice to "quote" or "reply". If you choose "reply", then you will begin a new post with just that selection quoted. If you choose "quote", then the selection will be added to a sort of clipboard and you can select/quote other pieces of text as you wish. Then when you are ready to make a post, use the "Insert quotes" button at the bottom of the Post Reply text box. This will allow you to insert whichever selected quotes you like in whatever order.
Thank you
 

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