Modern Arnis Community/United Nations

[norshadow1]

Originally posted by Pappy Geo
I was watching the UN Security Council this morning and it came to me that the "fragmentized" Modern Arnis Community is similar to the UN Security Council, posturing and communicating over who is on first base.

Now this is not meant to be controversial just an observation that posturing is common even amongst world leaders.

I have read through everything posted several times. I am impressed with the clear insights given about the need to work together. But so far I have seen only three concrete examples of people standing behind their words with actions - Dan Anderson, Rich Parsons and Dr. Jerome Barber. Perhaps I have missed something.

Lamont

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by norshadow1
I have read through everything posted several times. I am impressed with the clear insights given about the need to work together. But so far I have seen only three concrete examples of people standing behind their words with actions - Dan Anderson, Rich Parsons and Dr. Jerome Barber. Perhaps I have missed something.

Lamont

Lamont,

Even though I like the compliment, I think you might be forgetting a whole lot of people.

Namely all the people out there hosting seminars and giving seminars. Tim Hartman and the WMAA, the IMAF Schea Group, MARPIO, et al.

With out all these people hosting and instructing, no one would learn.

Now it might be difficult for someone to be a senior person of one group to go and train and obtain instruction from one of the other groups. As this would be a bad marketing move for them, I can see how it may not happen.

As, I am a lower ranked person and independant, I have more freedom and less restrictions.

Just my thoughts, and thanks again. :asian:

 

[Red Blade]

Originally posted by norshadow1
I have read through everything posted several times. I am impressed with the clear insights given about the need to work together. But so far I have seen only three concrete examples of people standing behind their words with actions - Dan Anderson, Rich Parsons and Dr. Jerome Barber. Perhaps I have missed something.

Lamont

Could you explain this statement?

 

[bloodwood]

I have read through everything posted several times. I am impressed with the clear insights given about the need to work together. But so far I have seen only three concrete examples of people standing behind their words with actions - Dan Anderson, Rich Parsons and Dr. Jerome Barber. Perhaps I have missed something.

Lamont
I think you have missed a lot. As Red Blade has stated, Please explain this statement. It seems ridiculous and way off base. Besides, What are YOU doing to make things better other than being the Who's Working With Who Police?

Bloodwood

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Originally posted by norshadow1
I have read through everything posted several times. I am impressed with the clear insights given about the need to work together. But so far I have seen only three concrete examples of people standing behind their words with actions - Dan Anderson, Rich Parsons and Dr. Jerome Barber. Perhaps I have missed something.

Lamont

Yeah, I'm curious also.

 

[Dan Anderson]

Lamont,

Thanks for the compliment but I am as curious as the rest. Hey, if this works the way it might, I'll be again the center of yet another controversy. Lucky me. :erg:

Yours,
Dan Anderson

PS - My offhand thinky think on this is our very vocal promotion of the upcoming Symposium.

 

[norshadow1]

Originally posted by bloodwood
Lamont
I think you have missed a lot. As Red Blade has stated, Please explain this statement. It seems ridiculous and way off base. Besides, What are YOU doing to make things better other than being the Who's Working With Who Police?

Bloodwood

Perhaps, I am not the one who has missed a great deal!

Lamont

 

[norshadow1]

Originally posted by Dan Anderson
Lamont,

Thanks for the compliment but I am as curious as the rest. Hey, if this works the way it might, I'll be again the center of yet another controversy. Lucky me. :erg:

Yours,
Dan Anderson

PS - My offhand thinky think on this is our very vocal promotion of the upcoming Symposium.

Dan,

You are welcome with regard to the compliment. I am just reading the mail and taking what I have read at face value.
I doubt that you will be the at the center of any other controversies and my comments really are not a promotion of
the symposium.

To answer several people at once - You were mentioned because you will be attending the WMAA Camp and then the symposium.
Two trips from the left coast, when I recall that someone said it was too far and expense to make a single trip for a Modern Arnis event.

Rich Parsons was mentioned because of the potential camps/seminars that he intends to participate in. Most of us can't do what he might do because of work, cash and possibly family considerations. I envy his flexibility.

Dr. Barber, was mentioned because he has organized the symposium and opened it to ALL Modern Arnis students and instructors without regard for any organizational affiliations.
A very difficult task and I have seen some posts suggesting that he has taken on an impossible task. In addition he is going to be attending the WMAA Camp in May. That is significant since he is not a WMAA member and he was originally scheduled to attend the Tracy Kenpo meeting in Chicago, regarding the planned succession of GM Al Tracy.

Given all of the fallout and bickering after the passing of Yip Man, Ed Parker and Remy Presas, the Tracy's are going to try to nip that problem before it raises it's ugly head. Given the importance of that meeting, since Dr. Barber, is a member of the Tracy organization, his attending the WMAA Camp is quite significant.

In the context of this particular thread and the statements made by the thread orginator as well as the comments posted later, I named the people who posted on this thread and who were doing more than just posting (talking). I never said that these were the only people putting action behind their posts, I mentioned them as examples. ALL anologies and examples are flawed. ALL analogies and example should break down under strong scrutiny, and this example would be no exception.

Do I have a "policing function"? No! But I suggest that people be very careful about making such statements or inferences, even within a rethorical question, because I am not one of those people who jump all over Jeff Delaney and Lisa McManus in posts. I am not a fan or supporter of either person, but when posting about them, some people do take on that 'policing mantle'.

As to what I am doing to help establish a better Modern Arnis Community, I am organizing several of my former classmates to attend the symposium. I am going to attend a Modern Arnis Inc. camp with two former classmate, because one of my friends lives in Chicago and wants to attend. (Putting MY Money where My Mouth has been.)

Lamont

 

[norshadow1]

quote: Originally posted by norshadow1

In addition he is going to be attending the WMAA Camp in May. That is significant since he is not a WMAA member.
Lamont


Dan IS a WMAA member. Unless some one forgot to tell me something.


__________________
As it is written, so shall it be.
So Says The Renegade


The point to be made is that he is making TWO TRIPS to the East Coast. It is also important to note that he is supporting a braoder venture in addition to supporting an organizational gathering. Many, if not most people will stay within the comfort zone of their organizational membership.

Lamont

 

[Dan Anderson]

It appears the last post got tangled together with another. It looks like Renegade's post got hooked up in Norshadow 1's slot.

Anyway, I am currently a member of WMAA and yes it is going to be quite an expense to hit both camps. I am working on offsetting the costs by doing some karate seminars of my own which do not conflict with the purposes of the camps.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

PS - King Crimson is going to be in Portland tomorrow night and I am going to be in pig heaven. Yeehah!

 

[Datu Tim Hartman]

Originally posted by Dan Anderson

PS - King Crimson is going to be in Portland tomorrow night and I am going to be in pig heaven. Yeehah!

Cool! Islands baby!

 

[Dan Anderson]

This is going to be some rugged business. Any of you out there interested, check out the new release The Power To Believe. It'll put hair on your chest. Ladies, watch out! :boing2:
Yours,
Dan Anderson

 

[bloodwood]

Lamont
Since joining this forum you are trying to be the one with all the answers and the one who gives every one advice. You also have political undertones to your posts and are deeply entrenched in DrB's corner. I don't get it all but I don't miss much either.

Bloodwood

 

[Emptyglass]

Bloodwood:

I think Lamont has some strong opinions on subjects but I don't see evidence of political undertones. I thought we were trying to keep politics out of these forums. May be I'm misunderstanding the purpose though. I've noticed that you also have very strong opinions which express often and freely.

As for giving advice, I would think that it is always freely offered but not forced to be taken. I don't like to give advice, since it is usually a frustrating endeavor for me but Lamont obviously has a higher tolerance for frustration than me if he is indeed doing so.

As for having all of the answers. In the past I've noticed that Lamont has more than most in many cases.

Ahh well, just a difference of opinion I suppose. Will you be at the Symposium in July? I'd love to meet you and to talk about these sorts of things over a few beers.

Regards,

Richard Curren

 

[norshadow1]

Originally posted by bloodwood
Lamont
Since joining this forum you are trying to be the one with all the answers and the one who gives every one advice. You also have political undertones to your posts and are deeply entrenched in DrB's corner. I don't get it all but I don't miss much either.

Bloodwood

I don't give advice, I make statements about what I believe to be true. I have also withheld some statements because I know that they would inflame some people. Sure, I like DocB, so what?
I have been to camps and seminars that he has hosted and everyone of them was a success in terms of the instruction. I also attended seminars that he taught. He is an excellent teacher. I have seen several of his students at the college over an extended period of time. They developed into very strong and capable martial artists. So the man has earned my respect. Just because you might not know him (and I do not have any information in either direction) that is no reason why I should with hold my positive respct for him. There are numerous people who expressed their liking of other instructors/leaders. Have I commented on who others like? NO!

As I mentioned in another post on another thread, I have a worked with in seminars and/ or camps with a number of people who will be presenting at the symposium in July. They are all very good people. there are several who I have not met before and I am looking forward to meeting them. If there is a scheduling conflict between some one I know and another whom I do not know, then I will most likely resolve it in favor of the unknown person, because I want to see what others have to offer. I am not locking myself into a comfortable box, I am going to take some risks. You and all others are free to do as you wish.

I am aware of the uphill battle a lot of people are facing with the death of Professor Presas. I am also aware that some people have been quite adament about no one ever being able to replace Professor. I have noted that some people are quite strongly pointed toward the idea that there will never be another Modern Arnis grand master. I do not happen to share that latter point of view, but I will grant you that Jeff Delaney is not the person that I would support as the GM. As I see it and as I have read a number of your past posts, you are not a 'shrinking violet' either.

I do not expect everyone to agree with me. Wouldn't be any fun if they did. I have not flamed or slandered anyone, I simpy have written what I felt I wanted to say and I have deliberately stayed away from telling anyone that they are flat-out wrong on anything.

I am looking forward to several events this coming summer. Maybe I will see you at one of them. If not, good luck, train hard and do well.

Lamont

 

[progressivetactics]

Well, I am new to this format of debate/discussion. And I appreciate Paul J. hooking me up to this method of information gathering. Thanks Paul.
I have noticed in this very long and lengthy thread that the possibility for world peace is IMPOSSIBLE! Arnis practioners just in the US can't get along!

Sorry. I think everyone was American in the last 40 or so posts I seen related to this.

I am relatively new to Modern Arnis, and was lucky enough to have Paul stop down to my school and introduce a bit of back ground to me. He did explain some of the 'infighting' and problems through out. Everyone here just confirmed it.

If we don't believe in change, if we don't work at change, if we don't try to change. WE WONT CHANGE.

Everyone seems to have good intentions, good ideas, and respectful. Lets keep going on that track, and get off the high horses, stop complaining about who isn't pulling the 'change machine' and try to do a better job at uniting the martial spirit. Despite your instructor/affiliation and club.

Just my humble opinion...

Respects to Mr Dan Anderson. I have your "american freestyle karate" book. A gift from my instructor. Nice work! It is about 15 years old (to me) and I still go back and read it!

 

[bloodwood]

I also try to just state opinions rather than give advice because most people really don't want to be given advice. Most of the time it just rubs folks the wrong way. I post as I see things, however they are just my personal views on the state of Modern Arnis and the people who make up this art. Sometimes I rub people the wrong way and sometimes it's the other way around. One way or the other it keeps us all honest and gets the cards out on the table. I do not know Lamont other than from here on Martial Talk, but after his last post I do know more about him, his intentions and where he's coming from. If it works out I would like to attend the symposium. We'll see.

I am much more likable in person.

I will say that most of the issues brought up here on Martial talk, whether personal, technical or organizational do get resolved in a fairly cordial manner. Maybe we're not that bad after all.

 

[Dan Anderson]

Originally posted by bloodwood
If it works out I would like to attend the symposium. We'll see.

I am much more likable in person.

I will say that most of the issues brought up here on Martial talk, whether personal, technical or organizational do get resolved in a fairly cordial manner. Maybe we're not that bad after all.

Blood,
I'd love to see you there. We actually will get along better as I think we have much more in common than not. And no, we're nowhere near bad. We do differ in opinons though, don't we.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

PS - last night's King Crimson concert was killer!!!.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Originally posted by bloodwood

I am much more likable in person.

I will say that most of the issues brought up here on Martial talk, whether personal, technical or organizational do get resolved in a fairly cordial manner. Maybe we're not that bad after all.

Bloodwood,

Look me up at the Synposium if you get there. I like to meet and to talk to new people and old friends.
:asian:

 

[DoctorB]

Originally posted by norshadow1
I don't give advice, I make statements about what I believe to be true. I have also withheld some statements because I know that they would inflame some people. Sure, I like DocB, so what?
I have been to camps and seminars that he has hosted and everyone of them was a success in terms of the instruction. I also attended seminars that he taught. He is an excellent teacher. I have seen several of his students at the college over an extended period of time. They developed into very strong and capable martial artists. So the man has earned my respect. Just because you might not know him (and I do not have any information in either direction) that is no reason why I should with hold my positive respct for him. There are numerous people who expressed their liking of other instructors/leaders. Have I commented on who others like? NO!

Lamont

Hello Lamont,

Thanks for all of your very kind remarks about my students, my teaching skills and the seminars that I have host, which you attended; I'm grining from ear to ear!

Now, I must also add that it is time to chill out!

First and foremost the Symposium **is not** about me! I am the conduit to the event. The Symposium is all about the PRESENTERS - the people who you and everyone else should be focused on - the people who have agreed to show us how they do Modern Arnis.

To everyone else:

I have said before in another post and regarding a different thread, there are three eras within Modern Arnis and although they overlap, they can be identified as 1. the art within your art era, 2. Filipino Arnis-Jujitsu era and 3. the tapi-tapi era.

Professor taught for 25 years in the USA, Canda and Europe, therefore it is impossible for us to have a "single, correct, othodox" Modern Arnis standard. Without a central HQ school, an established curriculum and codified promotional standards program written out by Professor, we must accept the fact that different people have different ideas about the art. The purpose of the Symposium is to give ALL OF US, an opportunity to EXCHANGE ideas about this art!!!

The instructors who have agreed to share their understandings about Modern Arnis are as representative a group as we are going to get at this time:

Senior Master, Dan Anderson - Modern Arnis 80
Punong Guro, Tom Bolden - American Modern Arnis Associates
Guro, Bruce Chiu - Modern Arnis - Remy Presas Style
Senior Master, Bram Frank - Common Sense Self Defense/ SC
Datu, Tim Hartman - World Modern Arnis Alliance
Datu, Dieter Knuttel - Modern Arnis Germany
Guro/Sensei, Dawud Muhammad - Modern Arnis - R. Presas Style
Guro, David Ng - IMAF, Inc.
Senior Master, Rocky Paswik - Modern Arnis - Cuentada
Senior Master, J. Richard Roy - IMAF, Inc.
Guro/Sifu, Peter Vargas - American Modern Arnis Associates

ALL of the Senior Masters cover the first two eras totally and were at least still active with Professor into the third era.
PG Bolden and Senior Master Paswik, take us back to the late 1970's. Senior Master Roy and Datu Hartman, , were involved from the early and mid 1980s right through to Professor's retirement in 2000. Senior Masters Frank and Anderson came on the scene in the early 1980's and were active in Modern Arnis, through 2000, although they were not always at seminars and camps in the middle to late 1990's. Datu Knuttel, Guros, Chiu, Muhammad, Ng and Vargas got involved in Modern Arnis in the 1990's. These time frames, as rough and generalized as they are should give us all a good indictaion about how different some approaches to Modern Arnis can be.

There is no way in the world that we are going to see identical approaches to the art from these men. Their experiences and martial arts backgrounds, preclude that from happening!!!

In a couple of different private exchanges, I have questioned the assumptions of three different people who presumed that there would not be anything new presented at the Symposium. But all three had to back away from that contention when they were forced to admit that they had not worked with everyone on the program. If you have not worked with ALL of the listed instructors, how can you conclude that there is nothing new that will be offered?

I can guarentee everyone that if you have not trained with one or more of the instructors on the Symposim roster, then you HAVE NOT seen it all before. So I am suggesting to everyone that this is going to be a very productive and exciting event. In the meantime please focus on the "players" and not the "announcer"!

Jerome Barber, Ed.D.