Miyama-ryu Jujutsu & GM. Antonio Pereira

elder999

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upnorthkyosa said:
Is Miyama Ryu comparable to Dan Zan Ryu? What specifically characterizes Miyama Ryu?

I should say first off that all opinions offered are my own, and your mileage will vary-I'm not the authority on Miyama ryu.

I don't have a lot of familiarity with danzan-ryu, and what I do have is chiefly through brief contact with Small-circle jujutsu people. However, they both use some of the judo gokkyo no waza, and that's one similarity.

jujutsu_indonesia said:
Danzan-ryu is like old Judo, like Judo as done before WWII. Much of the techniques of Judo is there but done differently and reflects the older Jujutsu systems.

Miyama is much more modern and very street-smart, very effective and to the point.

Interestingly, I've often described Miyama-ryu as like "old-time judo," "pre-WWII judo, " or what used to be called "dirty judo." You're right though, Miyama-ryu kata are geared towards western street crime, and this is one chief characterization, along with a more "rough and tumble" method of practice than other styles of jujutsu.


Ths syllabus through 1st kyu is available on the website, as well as several other Miyama-ryu school's webpages, and there are some differences in practice from teacher to teacher, depending upon when and by whom they were trained, and what other training they've had.

Some practitioners are learning/practicing sosuishitsu ryu kata, and some are learning SMR jo. Some have moved on to other arts, or have done other arts all along, so there is some variation, regionally and personally. Being one of the few practitioners west of the Mississipi, I've had fairly limited contact with my extended Miyama ryu family and I have Jim McCoy to thank for getting us back in touch.......ironically.
 
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jujutsu_indonesia

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elder999 said:
Interestingly, I've often described Miyama-ryu as like "old-time judo," "pre-WWII judo, " or what used to be called "dirty judo."

Umm.. the Miyama video I watch has no "dirty" moves at all, all the demonstrator moves very well, very smoothly, not sloppy at all. There are many karate-like strikes and kicks, and many techniques which are closer to Aikido than to Judo. I think Danzan is much closer to old Judo than Miyama.

Anyway, I am glad you agree with me that Miyama-ryu is very effective modern jujutsu system. This kind of jujutsu should be taught to the military and bodyguards.
 

elder999

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jujutsu_indonesia said:
Umm.. the Miyama video I watch has no "dirty" moves at all, all the demonstrator moves very well, very smoothly, not sloppy at all. There are many karate-like strikes and kicks, and many techniques which are closer to Aikido than to Judo. I think Danzan is much closer to old Judo than Miyama.

Anyway, I am glad you agree with me that Miyama-ryu is very effective modern jujutsu system. This kind of jujutsu should be taught to the military and bodyguards.

It's an old expression, "dirty judo"-doesn't mean sloppy so much as effective. It comes from the WWII combatives programs which had their foundation in Judo-a tradition which the founder was part of.
 
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jujutsu_indonesia

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elder999 said:
It's an old expression, "dirty judo"-doesn't mean sloppy so much as effective. It comes from the WWII combatives programs which had their foundation in Judo-a tradition which the founder was part of.

Oh I am sorry sir, English is not my 1st language so I think I havent recognized all the peculiar terms yet :)

I got to say though, Miyama has evolved way beyond Judo, it has lots of techniques which can't be found in Judo. I think Mr. Pereira deserved to be considered as one of the pioneers of "Made in USA" style of Jujutsu, along with Prof. Wally Jay and many others.
 

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elder999 said:
The syllabus through 1st kyu is available on the website, as well as several other Miyama-ryu school's webpages, and there are some differences in practice from teacher to teacher, depending upon when and by whom they were trained, and what other training they've had.

Can you please re-post a link to the website? I'm a dummy and can't seem to find it. Thanks! :)
 

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The real question of lineage and authority here, is: Who's going to be running Los Alamos? California, or Texas?
 

elder999

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arnisador said:
The real question of lineage and authority here, is: Who's going to be running Los Alamos? California, or Texas?

The Department of Energy will announce that the University of California won the contract tommorrow......of course, I don't really know that, as I'm officially on leave from the Lab while I do....something else......
 

arnisador

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Ah, OK. Here at Sandia in Albuquerque the big news is the stolen explosives...and the requirement to save energy by keeping the buildings at an Arctic temperature (a policy that figures into 98% of recent e-mails from administrators).

Sorry, I'll stop taking this off-topic! I have to run to a quantum computing mini-course soon anyway. Fun stuff.

Back to jujutsu...
 

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I believe the word dirty is often used to describe arts that are more directly aggressive towards an attacker, and try to damage/ injure anything within reach as fast as possible.
And that is not a bad thing at all.
 

elder999

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JAMJTX said:
I already asked for this account to be closed. It seems I have time for 1 last post.
-snip!-

Some people just lie about everything.

The reputation was disabled due to abuses.

:rolleyes: Bwahaha!

jujutsu_indonesia said:
I got to say though, Miyama has evolved way beyond Judo, it has lots of techniques which can't be found in Judo.

With all due respect to the founder and Miyama ryu-my personal martial arts foundation since 1983, BTW- it's probably more accurate to point out how Judo has devolved into something that most practitioners teach and "play" as a sport-while some Judo people still train with plenty of (wink of the eye at JAMJTX) goshin jutsu, most of the Judo we see today, sadly does not. ....there are more than a few techniques found in Miyama ryu that "can't be found in Judo," but some of them used to be......
 
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jujutsu_indonesia

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elder999 said:
With all due respect to the founder and Miyama ryu-my personal martial arts foundation since 1983, BTW- it's probably more accurate to point out how Judo has devolved into something that most practitioners teach and "play" as a sport-while some Judo people still train with plenty of goshin jutsu, most of the Judo we see today, sadly does not. ....there are more than a few techniques found in Miyama ryu that "can't be found in Judo," but some of them used to be......

Yes, my sensei told me that pre WWII Judo still retains techniques which we will recognize at Jujutsu, but after WWII has been forgotten. This is very true because here in Indones we have Judo Sandans who never heard of "Kime Shiki" or "Kodokan Goshin Jutsu". Which is ironic because Kodokan Goshin Jutsu was created in 1956 by Tomiki sensei :( it's not even 100 years old!
 

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jujutsu_indonesia said:
Yes, my sensei told me that pre WWII Judo still retains techniques which we will recognize at Jujutsu, but after WWII has been forgotten. This is very true because here in Indones we have Judo Sandans who never heard of "Kime Shiki" or "Kodokan Goshin Jutsu". Which is ironic because Kodokan Goshin Jutsu was created in 1956 by Tomiki sensei :( it's not even 100 years old!

Denny, just because it is like that in Indonesia, it doesn't mean that it is the same situation in other countries. Granted, the Kime Shiki is rather rare to find, but it is still taught if you know where to go. Kodokan Goshinjutsu isn't taught until godan or rokudan, so your sandan friends haven't gotten that far yet.
 
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Saitama Steve said:
Denny, just because it is like that in Indonesia, it doesn't mean that it is the same situation in other countries. Granted, the Kime Shiki is rather rare to find, but it is still taught if you know where to go. Kodokan Goshinjutsu isn't taught until godan or rokudan, so your sandan friends haven't gotten that far yet.

Well I don't expect them to be able to perform the Kodokan Goshinjutsu or Kime Shiki, but I expect them to at least know what is Kodokan Goshinjutsu and what is Kime Shiki and that those Katas are part of the syllabus. Instead, I got the answer that "We never heard of those". :(
 

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jujutsu_indonesia said:
Well I don't expect them to be able to perform the Kodokan Goshinjutsu or Kime Shiki, but I expect them to at least know what is Kodokan Goshinjutsu and what is Kime Shiki and that those Katas are part of the syllabus. Instead, I got the answer that "We never heard of those". :(

Ah OK, that is a BIG difference, they should have at least heard of those kata.

Merry Christmas all.
 

elder999

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jujutsu_indonesia said:
Well I don't expect them to be able to perform the Kodokan Goshinjutsu or Kime Shiki, but I expect them to at least know what is Kodokan Goshinjutsu and what is Kime Shiki and that those Katas are part of the syllabus. Instead, I got the answer that "We never heard of those". :(

Somehow missed this-in Miyama ryu we perform the first 15 moves of Kodokan Goshinjutsu kata for 1st kyu.
 

bignick

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Students start learning pieces of the Goshin Jutsu kata at white belt in my dojo...
 
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elder999 said:
Somehow missed this-in Miyama ryu we perform the first 15 moves of Kodokan Goshinjutsu kata for 1st kyu.

wow, that's very good. I hope this trend will also spread to Judo dojos!
 

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