Mitose

[Nate_Hoopes]

I have head the name James Mitose more times than i can count since i began my training in Kenpo, Heard stories about how he is/was arrested and put to trial for some reason, does anyone here have any more information about this, I would love to learn more. :asian:

 

[donald]

Hello Sir,
What I remember from written accounts. Is that he was convicted for some type of sven gali type act. It was supposed to have taken place not to long after the "manson family" nightmare. One of his former "students" turned states evidence, and he(Mr.Mitose) was hung out to dry!!! Whether he was truly guilty, or not I could'nt say. His is an intriguing legacy to say the least.
By His Grace

 

[Sanxiawuyi]

Try this BIOGRAPHY OF James M. Mitose

 

[GouRonin]

Don't forget that the Tracy website is somewhat biased.

Mitose's claims became grander towards the end of his life. While there is no doubt that he possed some knowledge and has some historical content to him it is hard to distinguish what was fact and what is embellishment.

 

[Nate_Hoopes]

Part if the reason I asked was I had only heard that he was arrested and tried, No one had ever told me if in fact he was convicted, which i just found out yes he was convicted, or even what he was arrested for, and now i understand that he was arrested for extortion and murder, So now i have another question, Who was he convicted of murdering, was that person significant, I wish i had more overall detail as to the whole story, theres millions of bits and pieces, but i would take me years to get any true insight to this, Many I'm talking to now say that theres so many clouds around the scenario that i shouldt even bother trying to find this stuff out. Well I'm often too stubborn to just let something drop like that before im satisfied that i atleast have the jist of the story and enough information that i feel comfortable that i can at least make a partial judgement for my self as to what really happened.

 

[Robbo]

This is the version I heard from Bruce Juchnik while attending one of his seminars.


http://www.mackido.com/Thought/Ethics_of_a_fight.html

this too,

http://kempo.4mg.com/articles/mitose.htm

 

[Sanxiawuyi]

Try this artical published in the November 1992 issue of Black Belt Magazine

Hope this helps
:asian:

 

[Nate_Hoopes]

Originally posted by Sanxiawuyi
Try this artical published in the November 1992 issue of Black Belt Magazine

Hope this helps
:asian:

Best Info I found so far at least this give me the whole story of who he was convicted of murdering and some insight as to why it occured. Definitely an interesting story, at very least it give you some insight as to what a skilled person with little or no self control can do (talking about mitose's studesnt not mitose), Kind of sad that one of the greats in our art was F%&*#D Over by one of his students. Does anyone know anything about the student that supposedly sold him out. Who is he, where is that student now etc. Thanks for all your help

:asian:

 

[Sanxiawuyi]

The students name at that time was Terry Lee. He later changed it too Nimr Hassan continues to teach at his dojo in Philadelphia,The Koga Ha Kosho Shorei Ryu Kempo Association of Philadelphia


James Mitos's son, Thomas B. Mitose, teaches and passes on his family’s art of Kosho-ryu at his dojo,Mitose's Kosho-Ryu Karate Kenpo Academy", in Antioch, CA.

:asian:

 

[GouRonin]

Originally posted by Nate_Hoopes
Kind of sad that one of the greats in our art was F%&*#D Over by one of his students.

Oh come on. Mitose SENT that guy over there to collect money he was extorting from the guy. In the old country the stuff Mistose was pulling might have flown but in North America it swam like a concrete block.

Mitose was responsible for his own problems. He was well aware who he was sending to meet with the farmer and what he was going to do. Whatever his skill was he was a con man and a liar. He pretended to be a priest, he exaggerated his own lineage as time went on and he got caught. He was influential in the makeup of American Kenpo but was just a piece of the pie. He brought some elements to it but was not the vital link in the chain.

His claims over Chow are also suspect. Chow would have pounded the puss out of Mitose. And threatened to do so when Mitose tried to pull some strong arm stuff on him. I don't blame him for backing down. From what I hear Chow could %$#@ up a steel ball with a rubber mallet he was so tough.

Consider this however, a quote from Richard "Huk" Planas on the skill he saw of Mitose.

"I personally don't know the extent of Mitose's training. All I can say is that back in the time when I was running the Pasadena studio there was a short period of time where Mitose came in almost daily. He would get on the mat and show us things that were not impressive to anyone of us. He once wanted to show me a 'secret move' and told me to throw a punch at him. When I did he immediately dropped down on his right knee and punched me in the top of the foot. Mr. Parker and the rest of us who were on the mat just looked at each other in disappointment."

Let's stay real about this.

 

[Sanxiawuyi]

Originally posted by GouRonin


Oh come on. Mitose SENT that guy over there to collect money he was extorting from the guy.

Mitose was responsible for his own problems. He was well aware who he was sending to meet with the farmer and what he was going to do. Whatever his skill was he was a con man and a liar.

Let's stay real about this.

Gou,
I really respect your opinions, but like the other side of the “Mitose coin”, they are just your opinions. Aside from the Planas quote, how do you know for certain those allegations are true?

Isn’t sort of odd that almost everyone in American Kenpo spread the same info as you just stated, and people from the other Kenpo camps tell the other story. Things that make you go Mmmm. Do you think the truth may lie somewhere in the middle?

As for the Chow thing, people have been arguing about this for years, but the fact remains he got a black belt from Mitose, was in his book, Chow’s brother says William studied with Mitose, etc, etc,. …Chow must have thought he could learn something from Mitose. Those were tough times in Paloma settlement in Hawaii and if you taught martial arts, you had to back it up.

With respect,
Sanxiawuyi

:asian:

 

[GouRonin]

Actually, my opinons and those of others are just as factual as any the Tracy's have put forward. I have spoken with a few people from both sides.

What I find odd is that now Ed Parker is dead and people are suddenly screaming of lineage to Mitose when they didn't say jack when he was alive. Although it's like that with some people and Ed Parker too.

You are right. The truth lies in the middle I am sure. But I doubt it's as far to the side as the Tracy's would have anyone believe. In the end I wasn't there so I am going on the words of a few men I respect. I am sure that you are as well. However it just seems that the Tracy people are more vocal about their version.

Chow did train with Mitose and that is not in dispute. It was a tough time and I am sure that Mitose had some skills. But to say that Chow and Parker got it all through Mitose is a huge leap.

 

[Sanxiawuyi]

Originally posted by GouRonin
Chow did train with Mitose and that is not in dispute. It was a tough time and I am sure that Mitose had some skills. But to say that Chow and Parker got it all through Mitose is a huge leap.

Hey Gou,

I enjoy meeting you on these forums. Your post are rationally based, not emotionally, you’re a fellow Canuck, and you don’t get “too” nasty

I never have said that Chow and Parker got it all through Mitose. Anyone who knows me, and yes I do practice Tracy Kenpo, knows I don’t agree with the linage as laid out. There are many elements missing, but I have been searching. I think people who read the history page at my site know what I believe, and that road isn’t direct back to Mitose. As you have said, Chow was an incredible martial artist, no dispute, and he did not learn all of that from Mitose. On the other hand, he didn’t learn the rest from his father!

Kimo Ferreira has tracked down some interesting history on Kenpo as well.

Respectfully,
Sanxiawuyi

 

[GouRonin]

Of course I am rational. I'm Canadian! I'll be the first to say that Chow was a little weird too. The guy used to get things in dreams for his martial arts etc he claimed.

But that was then and this is now. I doubt we'll ever know the real truth. At the moment I am still trying to track down who taught Ed Parker his judo. It's not easy. No one knows.

As funny as it seems I really am sorta Rabid and vicious but Jaybacca keeps me on some semblence of a leash.

Before I used to be really mean...

 

[Kirk]

Before I used to be really mean...

Yeah, I heard that too

 

[vincefuess]

BOTTOM LINE NATE:

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is likely a duck.

Mitose was involved in nasty stuff- extortion, blackmail, etc.- the evidence is too strong to deny. Just like there are people who don't think Bill Clinton had extramarital sex- those of us who live in the real world know he did.

Mitose is the same situation. He was surrounded by controversy, and was convicted of only ONE of the crimes he commited. He sent a "disciple" to strongarm some money out of a strawberry farmer he had suckered into a deal and the guy killed the farmer. THIS IS FACT AND PUBLIC DOMAIN INFORMATION AVAILABLE THROUGH GOVERNMENT RECORDS.

Chow never had this crap surounding him, nor did SGM Parker. Was it just bad luck that 4 out of 5 people considered Mitose a cultist crook? Was it just bad luck you were speeding in your new Neon?

Look at the facts, and let judgement be your guide. Only people who need defense defend their position to a fault.

In MY own personal opinion, and it is a widely shared opinion, Mitose was a cultist criminal who preyed upon his fellow man like a vampire. Nobody in the martial arts community support him except those who claim lineage to him, and that claimed lineage is dubious you have to admit. It's funny nobody talks this way about Funakoshi, Oyama, Parker, etc....

There is a smell around Mitose, and it is there for a reason.

Vince

 

[Nate_Hoopes]

I am just looking for information, No i relaize i opened a huge "can'o'worms" there as so many sides and so many variations of the story ive heard so far that i have no idea what to believe, one things for certain, he was denitiely crazy, wehter he was crazy homocidal crazy i dont know but there are too many things, Either people say that he was super nice and only took blame for his student because of tradition, and that in the whole he was really a great guy that preached peace over violence. then there people that say hes an extorting murdering, lying, etc etc. type person. Odds are hes somewhere in the middle. I wasnt even alive when all of these things happened so i cannot pass any judgements to either side. one things for cure, A whole lotta crap did go on.
:asian:

 

[vincefuess]

Man, how many times can a dead horse be kicked? I have gone the scales to the extremes in both directions regarding "the Mitose thing". I have researched this from one end to the other (over a period of years), and the conclusion I draw is that if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it is a duck. There is OVERWHELMING amounts of information that paint Mitose a "shady character"- there is very little to the contrary, other than that offered by those "claiming the legacy", who have their own agendas and may not be too keenly interested in the truth if it doesn't suit their purpose.

I posted somewhere in this forum (maybe in this thread) asking someone to prove that the "Mitose Clan Kosho Ryu" even existed in Japan at all. I have seen nothing to convince that it did. Most every other traditional asian art can define its roots clearly, and are still represented in their homeland. Kosho Ryu is not. Even the mysterious NINJAS have more documentation of their existence and lineage. Did the Kosho Ryu just disappear from Japan in a puff of smoke?

I would be happy to be proven wrong in this assumption of mine, I really would. Nobody has succeeded so far, though.

 

[Nate_Hoopes]

Hey yo man... When did i argue with you, Like you said youve had years to research I've been at it a week, And yes I've gotten to the point where im seeing something thats walking like a duck and sounds like a duck, but its too far off in the distance for me to be sure if its a duck, My HS years were strange, maybe im hallucinating the duck (joke) I dont disagree with anything youve said. Never hurts to get all the information you can.
:shrug:

 

[vincefuess]

Dang Nate! Did ya think I was chapped or something?? LOL- I didn't mean to come off that way at all. ASK QUESTIONS- ALWAYS ASK QUESTIONS!

By "kicking a dead horse" I meant that when the subject of Mitose comes up, you always here the same tired OPINIONS- and that is all they are is opinions. Nobody seems to be able to offer up any substantiated fact. That's why I raise the question about the existence/history/etc. of the Kosho Ryu in Japan- to go PAST Mitose (cuz you won't find squat in the way of answers as relates directly to him) and try to reach some truth by coming up the "historical rear" so to speak.

You have never done anything to chap my hinder. Rubbing people the wrong way is what "I" do best!! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: