My Wife's Jaded Opinion - Agree or Disagree?

[ArmorOfGod]

I was talking to my wife a few days ago and made the offhand comment that she could be black belt level by now (we have been married for 11 years) and that she could be helping me run my school. Now, keep in mind that I was not serious, as I know she has zero interest in training herself, but is completely supportive of my training.
She told me that she is glad that she never trained under me and advanced in rank because when she sees a married couple wearing black belts and running a school, she automatically assumes that it is a sham and the couple are phonies or a mcdojo.
Now, I see why she feels that way. She and I know a few local schools that are that way and that has jaded her opinion.

What does everyone think though? In general, is it true? When you see a husband/wife teaching team is one usually legit (or semi-legit) and the other a hastily promoted black belt, being promoted by the other?

AoG

 

[CuongNhuka]

My Sensei used to train his wife (left due to lack of intrest), his older daughter (left do to too full of a schedule), and his younger daughter (not sure why she left). When he felt they were ready to test he would consult a differnit student. This one was a 5th dan in Tae Kwon Do, and is currently a Black Belt in Cuong Nhu. She would also run the entire test. Sensei would have nothing to do with it. He wouldn't even consult her on his oppion. He also wont Ukemi during self defense (a training drill from Aikido), be a partner during blocks and punchs (a drill from Wing Chun), or hold boards.
However, there is a Tae Kwon Do school in our area that is nothing like that. He decides when is wife and son in law test, run the test, grant them all kinds of special priviledges during tests, and hold boards in a cheap way (meaning, he bends them till they are ready to break on their own). Some how, this knuckle head is a 5th dan, his wife is a 3rd dan (in a record time of 2 years) and his son in law is a 2nd Dan (after a year and a half, and while being 11).
So, it is possible for their to be legitmate schools like that, and illegit ones as well.

 

[Ceicei]

I see nothing wrong with a married black belt couple who runs a school together. In fact, she had worked her way up the ranks and was already a black belt before she fell in love later and then married her husband.

I also know of another school with owners who are both black belts and married to each other. They went through the ranks under the same instructor (not necessarily always earning the same rank at same time). After they became experienced instructors, when they decided to set up a school, they did so together. There were no "early promotions" just because they're married. They just simply worked hard and trained hard and earned their rank.

- Ceicei

 

[Changhfy]

Generally speaking based on Chinese heritage,

When a wife has children whether she is a martial artist or not she then becomes a mother and is expected to take care of the children and fulfill her duties first then Martial Arts later.

So generally you dont see to many Chinese martial artist that both teach together inless their well known.

But I can understand what you are saying, and fortunately I havent seen this take place too often. But I have seen it happpen, and I feel that its really a disgrace.

For instance let me give you an example, when I was 8 years old and just starting out in the Martial Arts. Their were a well known family of Martial Artist at this time the children of the Master were only 1st degree black belt and their senior was a 4th degree. Who taught them most everything that they learned. Anyways 4 or 5 years later the children of the Master progressed and were each promoted atleast one degree higher than their original senior, the eldest being either a 6th or 7th degree. While their original senior had trained atleast 10 years longer than the kids and kept his same rank no matter what.

This type of martial etiquette is really a shame.



take care

 

[stickarts]

It has been the opposite for us. My wife and I run our school and it has left a good impression on others and it has a real family environment. It all has to do with how you conduct yourself. If each person works hard, is profocient, honest, and is good to others, you do fine. My wife is evaluated for promotion the same as everyone else.
You make your own reputation as good or bad.
I have seen successful and unsuccessful ventures with schools run by married couples.
Now both of my daughters are taking classes too so it has become a real family endeavor. I wouldn't have it any other way!
We have flourished since 1993, so I know it can be done.

 

[stoneheart]

I've seen it happen too, but I think it plays into the larger issue of how diluted a black belt has become thanks to the knuckleheads out there. I'm no longer impressed by anyone holding a black belt until I see their skills on the floor for myself.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

It has been the opposite for us. My wife and I run our school and it has left a good impression on others and it has a real family environment. It all has to do with how you conduct yourself. If each person works hard, is profocient, honest, and is good to others, you do fine. My wife is evaluated for promotion the same as everyone else.
You make your own reputation as good or bad.
I have seen successful and unsuccessful ventures with schools run by married couples.
Now both of my daughters are taking classes too so it has become a real family endeavor. I wouldn't have it any other way!
We have flourished since 1993, so I know it can be done.

I think that it is true that you can have a very successful situation if both people really work hard, build their skills and are professional in what they do.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

I've seen it happen too, but I think it plays into the larger issue of how diluted a black belt has become thanks to the knuckleheads out there. I'm no longer impressed by anyone holding a black belt until I see their skills on the floor for myself.

Stoneheart this is a very good and realistic way to approach life in general with all relationships and skill sets.

 

[Adept]

This is really just another totally artificial problem created by an arbitrary and needless ranking system. You're only ever as good as you are, no matter what colour your belt is. Why worry about whether someone deserves their black belt, or who gave them their black belt, or how hard they had to work for that belt? Focusing on the belt means you aren't focusing on what really matters: how good they are at what they do.

 

[grydth]

My daughters go to a goju ryu dojo run by a husband and wife, and it is no mcdojo. They were both accomplished martial artists when they met, and both have an impressive set of credentials, accomplishments and reputable prior teachers. The teaching styles differ, but compliment each other.

I would say one has to take each dojo on its own merits.

 

[Kacey]

It has been the opposite for us. My wife and I run our school and it has left a good impression on others and it has a real family environment. It all has to do with how you conduct yourself. If each person works hard, is profocient, honest, and is good to others, you do fine. My wife is evaluated for promotion the same as everyone else.
You make your own reputation as good or bad.
I have seen successful and unsuccessful ventures with schools run by married couples.
Now both of my daughters are taking classes too so it has become a real family endeavor. I wouldn't have it any other way!
We have flourished since 1993, so I know it can be done.

I think that it is true that you can have a very successful situation if both people really work hard, build their skills and are professional in what they do.

My daughters go to a goju ryu dojo run by a husband and wife, and it is no mcdojo. They were both accomplished martial artists when they met, and both have an impressive set of credentials, accomplishments and reputable prior teachers. The teaching styles differ, but compliment each other.

I would say one has to take each dojo on its own merits.

I would have to agree with all of the above, especially the parts I bolded. Each situation has to be taken on its own merits - whether the instructors are married or not. How a married couple that co-own and operates a dojang conducts themselves is another piece of information that prospective students should consider prior to joining a class, along with the professionalism, experience, and technical abilities of the instructor(s) in general.

 

[K31]

I have less of a problem with this taking place because it is an MA environment than I have with married people working together in general.

This might be okay if it is only the husband and wife but when other employees become involved it is a bad practice.

 

[ArmorOfGod]

You know, really this boils down to a mcdojo discussion, at least regarding my wife's opinion. She knows that the schools that tainted her opinion were run by less than reputable teachers, so it's a matter of a bad apple ruining the bunch.
I can name a few schools run by married couples that are legit, but my wife has only bumped into the ones run by the fakes.

AoG

 

[Edmund BlackAdder]

She makes a good argument. I know of a few couples who take extra care not to be seen as partaking in nepotism with promotions. In at least one case, if anything, she is judged at a higher level than anyone else in the school. People still make comments, but, that is their misinformed opinion.

 

[Josh Oakley]

My original San Soo instructor, Paul Schroeder, and his wife seem to be having success and they're no sham.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

For every husband and wife team where one is promoted too quickly, I see two or more where one is promoted too slowly. I'm likely guilty of the latter. I want my wife to have no doubt that she's earned her rank, so I cut her less slack and give her more crap than any of my other students. She hasn't tested for black belt yet, but when she does I know she'll have no doubt as to its authenticity.

 

[Karatedrifter7]

I don't see anything wrong with it, I've run across it alot too. Bear in mind that I am not married, nor run a dojo. So this is just an observation. I've also encountered some divorcees who ran schools together! I'm not saying this causes it. But I could see how competiion could be a problem, even if a couple studies at the same dojo.

 

[Balrog]

SWMBO and I run a school together. There is no doubt in anyone's mind that she has earned her rank through sweat and dedication.

I think the viewpoint that married instructors automatically = McDojo is wrong on a whole bunch of levels.

 

[tsd]

What does everyone think though? In general, is it true? When you see a husband/wife teaching team is one usually legit (or semi-legit) and the other a hastily promoted black belt, being promoted by the other?AoG

In our association Black Belt is Black Belt......you don't have a rank of "female black belt" or "wife black belt". Most of the husband/wife teaching teams I have experienced are legit. Each has distinct strengths and personality. I believe that a variety of teachers improves student's training. Be they married, advanced students, visiting MA,etc.

 

[Phoenix44]

What if a father and son ran a dojo? Would you automatically assume that the son isn't legit?