mook jong man
Senior Master
Yeah , there is that minor little matter that he doesn't stick to the damn centerline , and quite a few other principles that are ignored.
But other than those minor details everything is hunky dory.
Master Wong - Legit?
- Thread starter Mr. President
- Start date
Yeah , there is that minor little matter that he doesn't stick to the damn centerline , and quite a few other principles that are ignored.
But other than those minor details everything is hunky dory.
OP
Mr. President
Green Belt
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Maybe he developed an "alternate" Wing Chun or something. A system that relies on basic Wing Chun principles but doesn't stick to them religiously in every situation. Just like others have developed things like "combat (name of martial art)", because the traditional version wasn't practical enough or something.
If anyone in this forum is UK based and can do some full contact sparring with him, it would be nice to hear their experience.
If anyone in this forum is UK based and can do some full contact sparring with him, it would be nice to hear their experience.
The man is probalbly a pretty good fighter, but I have to agree with mook on this.
He not only ignores many of the principles that make up WC, he contradicts them.
Does that mean he can't fight? That he's a despicable human being?
No...it just means he's not doing WC.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Without the principles it is not Wing Chun, you can teach Wing Chun and stick to the principles or you can use some of the principles of Wing Chun and teach somehing else
As for the term "Combat" anything. it is mostly sales and shows that the peron teaching the "combat" whatever is either out for $$$ or does not understand or did not take the time to truly learn the base art.
Combat Macramé anyone?
I have to say that I'm surprised that people go so easy on this guy. I can only assume they haven't watched many of his videos. Before I knew anything about Wing Chun, I came across his videos and watched all of them. They were entertaining, but I did wonder if they were legitimate or not, so I did heavy research on Wing Chun, its history, and different instructors and lineages. I came to the very sound conclusion that Micheal does not line up with any of them - not even in principle, much less technique.
For goodness sake, in the video the OP posted, he's trying knock away punches with his elbows - horizontally. In his iconic stance, he holds up double wu-saus for his guard. He has no regard for his centerline. Much of the time he practices his techniques well outside of proper range, and does funny distance fighting techniques that look like bad JKD. And his forms and chisau are just bad.
It doesn't take a whole lot of experience to notice these things.
For goodness sake, in the video the OP posted, he's trying knock away punches with his elbows - horizontally. In his iconic stance, he holds up double wu-saus for his guard. He has no regard for his centerline. Much of the time he practices his techniques well outside of proper range, and does funny distance fighting techniques that look like bad JKD. And his forms and chisau are just bad.
It doesn't take a whole lot of experience to notice these things.
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Yeah...I've tried REAL hard ever since I saw the title of this post and..well...I can no longer resist....what can I say...I'm weak :EG: 
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StormShadow
Blue Belt
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besides wing chun I also study jerry poteet's way of jkd... I have to check that out but jkd is different. You can learn bruce lee's way but if you embody that, it's arguably not jkd for you. Since it was what bruce found good for him. So it's harder to say this or that is not jkd. Jkd is just a term for a way of fighting. But honestly the more I think about it, without some sort of structure there is chaos so jkd probably should've been defined better. Else it's just street mma pretty much.
Never have watched this guy much before. Love what I see. Very entertaining. Nothing inherently wrong with what he is doing. He comes from Pan Nam line so this wing chun should be different from Yip Man line. Their center line idea's are different so it won't match with Yip Man sensibilities. He is not trying to knock away punches with elbows although it appears that way by his application. What he is doing is usually taught as a covering method he just ad's his own flair and drama.
He looks like he is trying to do a hong kong movie demo tape as well provide his wing chun idea's. I for one enjoy the over the top B- movie feel.
He looks like he is trying to do a hong kong movie demo tape as well provide his wing chun idea's. I for one enjoy the over the top B- movie feel.
wingerjim
Green Belt
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I couldn't agree more. I too am sure he can fight and his methods, though not conventional Yim Man style, look intersting, but I too have trouble calling what Master Wong teaches "Wing Chun".
You will if it is different from your lineage.
See what you can take from what he says, bet he's an animal.
Since we've dug this thread up...
It's not about differences in lineage. It's about whether or not what he does can be classified as Wing Chun at all. The difference in most lineages is superficial - Wing Chun is built on concepts and principles. Those principles will be the same, whether you're talking about Leung Jan's Wing Chun or my own teacher's Wing Chun, a century and a half later. The thing is, those principles don't seem to be present with Micheal Wong.
Martial Arts is not just about what you want to do or how you express yourself. A martial art is a combative method; a practical skill. Therefore, unlike "Art," there's most certainly a Wrong way to do it.
At any rate, I feel a disambiguation is in order:
Master Wong
Master Wrong
It's not about differences in lineage. It's about whether or not what he does can be classified as Wing Chun at all. The difference in most lineages is superficial - Wing Chun is built on concepts and principles. Those principles will be the same, whether you're talking about Leung Jan's Wing Chun or my own teacher's Wing Chun, a century and a half later. The thing is, those principles don't seem to be present with Micheal Wong.
Martial Arts is not just about what you want to do or how you express yourself. A martial art is a combative method; a practical skill. Therefore, unlike "Art," there's most certainly a Wrong way to do it.
At any rate, I feel a disambiguation is in order:
Master Wong
Master Wrong
Hi All,
I can confirm that Michael Wong practices Pan Nam Wing Chun kuen (I have studied PNWCK also). I have no idea about his Sifu's/Lineage etc.
In addition I can also say that he executes his PNWCK differently than how it is normally practiced within the system. He seems to practice it as more of an external system (you can see this). He will say otherwise, that his system is internal. I don't see this. Loud breathing does not equal internal...
I give a little bit of credit to the fact he wants to stand on his own two feet. You can't argue that what he practices and teaches is distinctly his own expression of the art!
I can confirm that Michael Wong practices Pan Nam Wing Chun kuen (I have studied PNWCK also). I have no idea about his Sifu's/Lineage etc.
In addition I can also say that he executes his PNWCK differently than how it is normally practiced within the system. He seems to practice it as more of an external system (you can see this). He will say otherwise, that his system is internal. I don't see this. Loud breathing does not equal internal...
I give a little bit of credit to the fact he wants to stand on his own two feet. You can't argue that what he practices and teaches is distinctly his own expression of the art!
wingchunguy
Yellow Belt
Master Wong is definitely legitimate, if you want to learn modified wing chun or JKD, which is not nearly as good as traditional. Traditional wc is a COMPLETE system (Unlike others that have to be supplemented with OTHER MARTIAL ARTS, LIKE THE MMA, which has standup that is supplemented with jiu jitsu) that includes standup, locks and throws, sweeps, anti-takedown and anti-grappling techniques that use the ten concepts, a VERY IMPORTANT PART OF REAL WING CHUN THAT MODIFIED AND JKD DO NOT HAVE!! You are better off with traditional, it is a complete system. Key components of traditional wing chun were taken out like proper stance, proper footwork (circle inside a triangle)proper way to close the distance, and, of course, the ten concepts, which dictate the proper application of wing chun in a fight or self defense scenario, which makes modified wc and JKD stiff and inflexible and a lot less effective and efficient. Traditional wing chun is the ONLY FULLY CONCEPTUAL MARTIAL ART ON THE PLANET. Others say they use concepts, but not ten of them and they DO not dictate application. In technique-based mas (like boxing or any boxing derivative such as muay thai or karate, even bjj), the technique dictates the response making it, like I said stiff and rigid. The ten concepts are just guidelines used to determine the proper application of the technique. This allows the traditional wc user to tailor his wing chun to his own personality, abilities and disabilities, and that of his opponent (something you CANNOT DO WITH TECHNIQUE-BASED MAS!).
blindsage
Master of Arts
Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
StormShadow
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I am of grandmaster william cheung's lineage and I would not say other versions of wing chun are incomplete just different. It really doesn't matter how complete or incorrect someone thinks a system is, chances are there is someone in that system who can break you. Everything will always be on individual ability and what you are able to personally accomplish in yourself and how you can adapt to situations.
I call BS on this! Declaring your system the "best" and everybody else inferior won't fly around here. I've run across some good practitioners in different WC/VT/WC lineages including "TWC" --Phil Redmond always impressed me, for example. But your breast-beating proclamations of superiority are better suited to a religious revival meeting than a forum like this. Go back and re-read what Storm Shadow said.
wingchunguy
Yellow Belt
Yes, chinaboxer has one of the best tutorials on you tube and is highly recommend if you want to learn REAL WING CHUN.
