And you know this how exactly?
It's very amusing when people state things strongly and then later, when they have been proven wrong, see them come up with pathetic excuses for their mistakes...
So, carry on believing that you know everything about the nine ryūha (from books, internet and hearsay).
"Proven wrong"? Really? By who? You came along, made your second (anonymous) post for the forum, stating that there "is kusarifundojutsu and torinawajutsu in Gyokko Ryu", without any backup, support, or evidence, let alone any comment on where such knowledge comes from, and you're calling that "proof"? As far as "pathetic excuses", read again. I answered how I came to my understanding, as well as the support for such an idea.
Oh, and my understanding comes from a much more diverse range of sources than has been intimated or even guessed at, for the record... inside and outside the Bujinkan.
Just a small note however...
Of course...
Indeed. It hasn't. But Wayne Roy did not receive full transmission in the nine ryū. In fact, looking at his movement and his students' movements, it can be argued that he didn't receive any transmission at all. In any ryū. Being a member of the Bujinkan, and training in the presence of Hatsumi sensei, doesn't mean one is receiving transmission in the ryū. Receiving a list of kata, or even the order of the movements within the kata, isn't real transmission either. Anyone can get that. Just because you are well read and knowledgeable it doesn't mean you can make definite statements regarding the ryū, and I hope that people who read your posts on this forum (and others) realize that you are just a man with an opinion, who - like most people - holds very few facts regarding the ryū.
And we're back to this again...
Look, I get that most Bujinkan don't like us, and frankly, I don't give a damn. More importantly, the entire premise of this paragraph is rather off, as well as missing a few salient points. We can start with the "didn't receive any transmission at all" comment... bluntly, I have yet to see any evidence of anyone receiving any "true transmission" in any of the Ryu-ha from Hatsumi. And yeah, I'm talking about something far more than a list of kata as well. As far as "just because you're well read and knowledgeable it doesn't mean...", hmm.... you really are missing where that information comes from.
Mr. Parker, if you are familiar with the yurushi then you should also know that they exist within the Mizuta Den as well as just about every other branch of Takagi ryu. In addition there are other scrolls, as well as possibly other schools, sometimes taught within or along with Takagi Ryu that would contain weapons etc.
Hi Todd,
I'm very aware of the other lines, the weaponry systems, the variances, and so on, as well as the yurushi no den within many lines... but, as I said, what is known as the yurushi within the Mizuta-den seems (to me) to be taken from the Ishitani-den, rather than being the Mizuta-den itself.
To address another point, it is also a know fact that Hatsumi didn't teach certain portions of the ryu to very senior members, for whatever reason, and that most people have no true idea of the ryu content as they practice a system created from the schools and not the schools themselves. An excellent example of this is Manaka sensei. A great budoka I have experienced many times but himself said that he only learned a portion of Muto Dori and didn't have other sets of kata within Takagi Ryu. This is actually quite shocking due to his extended time with Hatsumi sensei and dedication to the arts. This doesn't take away from Manaka sensei in the least bit and I only mention it as a clear example of Hatsumi sensei's unorthodox teaching approach.
Completely agreed with the first sentence (particularly the statement that the Bujinkan teaches a system created from the schools [Budo Taijutsu... but it's origins are more than that, of course], and not the Ryu themselves). But a large part of my information comes not from relying on people who've trained part....Manaka, to use your example, didn't receive Menkyo in Takagi Yoshin Ryu, only Gyokko and Togakure, so him not having the whole system is fine (from that perspective).
Mr. Parker, I have had Paul Richardson in visiting my school on several occasions as I have other friends of mine. When you say you know of the workshop, I am not sure that means you read about it on web or that you possibly know Paul. If you do in fact know him, you can ask his opinion directly about my involvement with Takagi Ryu and its branches.
I didn't mean to imply anything negative about yourself, or Paul's seminar and teachings there, my apologies if it came across that way. I was more pointing out that the claim of Takagi Ryu Iai goes against the claims of pretty much everyone else, including and up to Hatsumi, for the record. Paul wasn't the only one to teach such things, he wasn't the first, he won't be the last, but that doesn't mean there was actually any Iai in Takagi Ryu (Mizuta-den... or Ishitani, for that matter).
It is also important to realize we are all "seekers on the path", so to speak, which makes it difficult to say something does or does not have material without some intimate knowledge of the school. However, I think anyone has the right to inquire about sources and validity of information when someone claims something outside the norm.
So my claims, which match all other known information, the comments and claims of various Soke and Menkyo holders, people who are ranked specifically in the schools and so on, are the ones that are "outside the norm", and should be questioned? I agree that claims should be questioned, but I disagree that claims that match common understanding should be dismissed, questioned, or be attempted to be discredited because someone doesn't like who is saying it... and I see that a fair bit.
I am interested in the SFR and Gyokko Ryu claims from a research perspective. I am quite sure most of that material existed in most koryu in Japan. Just not so sure that the document being referenced earlier is from the same lineage and would be open to discuss it privately.
You might want to do some more reading of what was in various Koryu, then... because, as a rule, it wasn't. But, for the record, this is an open discussion forum, and it's considered bad form (not to mention technically against the rules) to invite private conversation rather than open discussion in the threads... just a heads up.
