Martial arts shouldn't take years to learn.

[Gerry Seymour]

I'm not joking. If you don't train any of those tools, how do you know how to counter it?

I can counter a lot of throws I can't do.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

a few punches a few kicks and a few throws/ locks are all that are needed ...

Assume it takes about 3 months (I believe it should take at least 6 months) to develop a single tool. Also assume you need at least the following tools,

1. jab,
2. cross,
3. uppercut,
4. hook,
5. front kick,
6. side kick,
7. roundhouse kick,
8. hip throw,
9. leg break,
10. single leg,
11. double legs,
12. finger lock,
13. wrist lock,
14. elbow lock,
15. shoulder lock.
16. full mount,
17. side mount,
18. arm bar,
19. leg bar,
20. choke.

That's already 5 years minimum there.

 

[jobo]

Assume it takes about 3 months (I believe it should take at least 6 months) to develop a single tool. Also assume you need at least the following tools,

1. jab,
2. cross,
3. uppercut,
4. hook,
5. front kick,
6. side kick,
7. roundhouse kick,
8. hip throw,
9. leg break,
10. single leg,
11. double legs,
12. finger lock,
13. wrist lock,
14. elbow lock,
15. shoulder lock.
16. full mount,
17. side mount,
18. arm bar,
19. leg bar,
20. choke.

That's already 5 years minimum there.

that's only if you learn them one at a time, you really don't have to spend three months doing upper cuts, before moving on to jabs, so all punches in three months, all kicks in another, you are all ready well on your way.

nb it really doesn't take three months to go from " couldn't bruise an apple" to knocking someone over

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

that's only if you learn them one at a time, you really don't have to spend three months doing upper cuts, before moving on to jabs, so all punches in three months, all kicks in another, you are all ready well on your way.

nb it really doesn't take three months to go from " couldn't bruise an apple" to knocking someone over

In another skill development thread, I don't agree that you should try to develop more than 1 tool at any time period.

 

[jobo]

In another skill development thread, I don't agree that you should try to develop more than 1 tool at any time period.

they are not tools, the punches for instance,are,simple movement patterns, you may not believe that a person can develop three simple movement patterns in three months, but that is true,

are you really going to make some spend 3months doing nothing bit jabs, om surprised you have an,students

nb i learnt to drive in weeks, how many movement patterns is that?

you would have,someone just working the indicator for,12weeks

 

[jobo]

In another skill development thread, I don't agree that you should try to develop more than 1 tool at any time period.

they are not tools, the punches for instance,are,simple movement patterns, you may not believe that a person can develop three simple movement patterns in three months, but that is true,

are you really going to make some spend 3months doing nothing bit jabs, om surprised you have an,students

nb i learnt to drive in 8( hours) weeks, how many movement patterns is that?

you would have,someone just working the indicator for,12weeks

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Assume it takes about 3 months (I believe it should take at least 6 months) to develop a single tool. Also assume you need at least the following tools,

1. jab,
2. cross,
3. uppercut,
4. hook,
5. front kick,
6. side kick,
7. roundhouse kick,
8. hip throw,
9. leg break,
10. single leg,
11. double legs,
12. finger lock,
13. wrist lock,
14. elbow lock,
15. shoulder lock.
16. full mount,
17. side mount,
18. arm bar,
19. leg bar,
20. choke.

That's already 5 years minimum there.

Based on this 3 month idea, and that you need to master 320 techniques (not including your '5' without a specific number), it would take 80 years to become simply a good fighter. And by the time you are at the end you would have forgotten the beginning techniques since they don't all build on each other. So basically it is impossible to become a 'good' fighter from your assumption.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Assume it takes about 3 months (I believe it should take at least 6 months) to develop a single tool. Also assume you need at least the following tools,

1. jab,
2. cross,
3. uppercut,
4. hook,
5. front kick,
6. side kick,
7. roundhouse kick,
8. hip throw,
9. leg break,
10. single leg,
11. double legs,
12. finger lock,
13. wrist lock,
14. elbow lock,
15. shoulder lock.
16. full mount,
17. side mount,
18. arm bar,
19. leg bar,
20. choke.

That's already 5 years minimum there.

Based on this 3 month idea, and that you need to master 320 techniques (not including your '5' without a specific number), it would take 80 years to become simply a good fighter. And by the time you are at the end you would have forgotten the beginning techniques since they don't all build on each other. So basically it is impossible to become a 'good' fighter from your assumption.

 

[Dirty Dog]

that's only if you learn them one at a time, you really don't have to spend three months doing upper cuts, before moving on to jabs, so all punches in three months, all kicks in another, you are all ready well on your way.

nb it really doesn't take three months to go from " couldn't bruise an apple" to knocking someone over

And there is a lot more to martial art training, to most of us, than merely knocking someone over.

 

[jobo]

And there is a lot more to martial art training, to most of us, than merely knocking someone over.

his post was how long it takes to be a good fighter , not master ma...

if you cant knock someone down they you are not a good puncher

 

[Dirty Dog]

his post was how long it takes to be a good fighter , not master ma...

"Martial arts shouldn't take years to learn" is the title of the thread. Not "knocking someone down shouldn't take years to learn."
Like you, the OP seems to think there's nothing more to martial arts training than knocking someone down.
That tiny subset of what martial arts training includes doesn't take years to learn.
And some people never learn anything more than that. Sad.

 

[drop bear]

And there is a lot more to martial art training, to most of us, than merely knocking someone over.

A lot more is one thing. Not learning to knock a person over at all is another.

You could learn a bunch of life affirming skills from playing the violin rather than fighting. But if you did you would not be considered shallow if at the end of the process you wanted to be able to play the violin.

 

[drop bear]

And why is everything about martial arts about not delivering. There is something really wrong with that.

 

[Dirty Dog]

A lot more is one thing. Not learning to knock a person over at all is another.

You could learn a bunch of life affirming skills from playing the violin rather than fighting. But if you did you would not be considered shallow if at the end of the process you wanted to be able to play the violin.

You can learn the basic fingering to play the violin in quite a short time. I have a daughter who played her way through college with the Ft Worth Symphony who can teach you, even.
But she'll also tell you that it will take a lot more time and effort to learn to really PLAY the violin than just learning the fingering for the notes.
Same for martial arts.
If you're content with just learning the fingering (or to knock someone over), then that's fine. You're missing out on an awful lot, but that's your loss, and I won't lose any sleep over it.

 

[drop bear]

You can learn the basic fingering to play the violin in quite a short time. I have a daughter who played her way through college with the Ft Worth Symphony who can teach you, even.
But she'll also tell you that it will take a lot more time and effort to learn to really PLAY the violin than just learning the fingering for the notes.
Same for martial arts.
If you're content with just learning the fingering (or to knock someone over), then that's fine. You're missing out on an awful lot, but that's your loss, and I won't lose any sleep over it.

So did she learn to play the violin so she could play the violin? Or was it a spiritural journey to develp herself as a person?

I mean would you recomended not actually learning the violin just, I dont know, some sort of concept violin training?

There is seriously something weird with this whole mindset for me. It seems to be a striving not to deliver. Not only not deliver on fighting skills. But not deliver on anything.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

are you really going to make some spend 3months doing nothing bit jabs, om surprised you have any students.

I have seen someone who spent

- 6 months to develop a "side kick".
- 6 months to develop a "single leg".
- 2 years to develop a "hip throw".
- ...

To run a MA business is different from to train just few fighters. In MA, you will need to develop many

- generals (door guarding techniques - finish moves), and
- soldiers (general techniques).

The more generals that you have developed, the better fighter you will be.

 

[Dirty Dog]

So did she learn to play the violin so she could play the violin? Or was it a spiritural journey to develp herself as a person?

She learned to play so she could play. Because she loves music. And music, to most, is a lot more than just the noise you get from someone who thinks just learning the fingerings is enough.

I mean would you recomended not actually learning the violin just, I dont know, some sort of concept violin training?
There is seriously something weird with this whole mindset for me. It seems to be a striving not to deliver. Not only not deliver on fighting skills. But not deliver on anything.

Sorry, but you're babbling. Where have I ever said anything remotely like the above nonsense?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Based on this 3 month idea, and that you need to master 320 techniques (not including your '5' without a specific number), it would take 80 years to become simply a good fighter. And by the time you are at the end you would have forgotten the beginning techniques since they don't all build on each other. So basically it is impossible to become a 'good' fighter from your assumption.

To complete that toolbox is impossible. Of course that's the extreme. It's used as an example to show the OP that there are 5 categories techniques that's needed to develop.

1. punch,
2. kick,
3. lock,
4. throw,
5. ground game.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

To complete that toolbox is impossible. Of course that's the extreme. It's used as an example to show the OP that there are 5 categories techniques that's needed to develop.

1. punch,
2. kick,
3. lock,
4. throw,
5. ground game.

That's fair, although I would argue that this might be needed to 'master' X martial art, but isn't needed to be a good fighter. What's more important is having reliable tools, along with counters for techniques in each category.
For instance, someone could be bad at throws/takedowns, and not get them well. However, that person could have good takedown defense, and if they do get thrown, they have good ground game. Because of those to things, they may not need to know how to throw.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

To complete that toolbox is impossible. Of course that's the extreme. It's used as an example to show the OP that there are 5 categories techniques that's needed to develop.

1. punch,
2. kick,
3. lock,
4. throw,
5. ground game.

That's fair, although I would argue that this might be needed to 'master' X martial art, but isn't needed to be a good fighter. What's more important is having reliable tools, along with counters for techniques in each category.
For instance, someone could be bad at throws/takedowns, and not get them well. However, that person could have good takedown defense, and if they do get thrown, they have good ground game. Because of those to things, they may not need to know how to throw.