Martial Artist, what does that mean?

jks9199

Administrator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
23,473
Reaction score
3,795
Location
Northern VA
That I do completely disagree with by the way, at no point was I forcing anyone to adhere to anything, I was asking questions, possibly uncomfortable questions for some and possibly the wrong questions, but at no point was I asking anyone to comply to anything nor was I trying to force anyone into any belief of my own. I did disagree with some and ask more questions for clarification or to get deeper into the topic. Any feeling of being forced is all from your perception.
Seems to me the question was pretty clear at the start. Filter everything else out, and it boils down to "What does it take to call yourself a martial artist/martial practitioner/whatever term you like?" You can expand that out to include things like how much time do you have to spend, how dedicated do you have to be, what do you have to have given up, suffered through, etc
 

yak sao

Senior Master
Joined
Aug 18, 2008
Messages
2,183
Reaction score
761
And since I am not sure of the question maybe it is best just to walk away form the entire thread and leave it at that

Oh no you don't.....you ain't going anywhere mister !
Now let's get this settled.......
.
 
OP
Xue Sheng

Xue Sheng

All weight is underside
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
34,274
Reaction score
9,386
Location
North American Tectonic Plate
I don't use the term "martial artist" but instead martial practitioner. I really don't view what I do as art but more as a means of studying martial ways.

I am rapidly coming over to your side on this

If someone asked me what makes a martial practitioner? I would answer someone that trains in a martial system/science or way. Within the term "martial practitioner" there would be hobbyists and or course serious practitioner's but in the end they all just train!

I like this, so Martial Artist (forgive me I had to use it again) is a container like Martial Arts and inside martial arts you have different styles. So in martial artists you have different types of practitioners...I Like it
.
Oh no you don't.....you ain't going anywhere mister !
Now let's get this settled.......
.

I can't go yet, still working at arranging the whole death match thing with steve on an island near Hong Kong and I think we are only at the challenge and posturing part of the whole posturing, challenges, banter, and death match thingy for his offending my family and offending the Shaolin Temple.. and I have not even got to the challenge and posturing with hoshin for offending my family and offending the Didgeridoo :D
 
Last edited:

yak sao

Senior Master
Joined
Aug 18, 2008
Messages
2,183
Reaction score
761
[QUOTE="Xue Sheng, post: 1717569, member:

I can't go yet, still working at arranging the whole death match thing with steve on an island near Hong Kong and I think we are only at the challenge and posturing part of the whole posturing, challenges, banter, and death match thingy for his offending my family and offending the Shaolin Temple.. and I have not even got to the challenge and posturing with hoshin for offending my family and offending and the Didgeridoo :D[/QUOTE]

You could always do rock,paper,scissors and call it a day
 

Danny T

Senior Master
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
4,258
Reaction score
2,293
Location
New Iberia, Louisiana USA
Depends who you ask, in my opinion art is what someone thinks it is.

Someone might look at that picture and call it art, some may say its just a yellow square (not art), or they might say its both
Hence my statement of only looking a small piece of the total.
The yellow square is but a small piece of the total picture which is this. This is an art masterpiece by an amazing artist.
ah-mona-lisa.jpg
 

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
14,041
Reaction score
4,488
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
I am getting more and more uncomfortable with the term "Artist" ...
When you swing your sword, you are trying to cut your opponent's head off. How much art does that involve?

If you help some old lady to cross the street, you then call yourself "saint". That's overrated IMO.

This is why I don't like the term "self-defense". When my fist meets my opponent's face, I'm not defending myself, I'm hurting someone.
 
Last edited:

Balrog

Master of Arts
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
1,764
Reaction score
482
Location
Houston, TX
The "-ist" suffix in English denotes someone who does something. So a martial artist is someone who does a martial art. There's no differentiation between the White Belt beginner and the Grandmaster teaching him - they are both martial artists.
 

Tez3

Sr. Grandmaster
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Messages
27,608
Reaction score
4,901
Location
England
When you swing your sword, you are trying to cut your opponent's head off. How much art does that involve?

If you help some old lady to cross the street, you then call yourself "saint". That's overrated IMO.

This is why I don't like the term "self-defense". When my fist meets my opponent's face, I'm not defending myself, I'm hurting someone.


Maybe you aren't trying to kill him, you don't always 'swing' your sword in anger, more than likely it's for practice. Besides swords are rarely used in a fight to cut off the head.
If you help an old lady to cross the road you call yourself well brought up, what's with the saint bit?
'Self defence' is a term you need to use when questioned about the altercation, if you say you deliberately set out to hurt someone you will be charged instead or as well as the perpetrator. You may not like the term but you need to bear it in mind.
 

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
14,041
Reaction score
4,488
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
Hence my statement of only looking a small piece of the total.
The yellow square is but a small piece of the total picture which is this. This is an art masterpiece by an amazing artist. View attachment 19398
When a pretty girl holds a knife, you may find some "art" in it.

Robin_Guan_Dao.jpg


When that knife has blood on, you won't find any art in it.

knife4.png
 
Last edited:

yak sao

Senior Master
Joined
Aug 18, 2008
Messages
2,183
Reaction score
761
When a pretty girl holds a knife, you may find some "art" in it.

Robin_Guan_Dao.jpg

I see your pretty lady and raise you two Michelle Yeoh....

images.jpg


4362960_ori.jpg


....I know, the second one has absolutely nothing to do with Martial Arts or the topic at hand, but c'mon!
 
OP
Xue Sheng

Xue Sheng

All weight is underside
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
34,274
Reaction score
9,386
Location
North American Tectonic Plate
Oh so now you've decided just to taunt me, is that it...going off topic like that with pictures of Michelle Yeoh....I Mean really...I would NEVER do such a thing...

only martial arts realted pictuers please...like this for example

michelle_yeoh_crouching_tiger_hidden_dragon_001.jpg


See martial arts related..... anything not martial arts related...like this

600full-michelle-yeoh.jpg


You would NEVER see me post

So to recap..this OK

Michelle-Yeoh1.jpg


this not

1118full-michelle-yeoh.jpg


Who am I trying to kid....its Michelle Yeoh... which really means to me no matter the topic.... Michelle Yeoh is on topic

michelle.jpg
 

Chris Parker

Grandmaster
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Messages
6,259
Reaction score
1,104
Location
Melbourne, Australia
When a pretty girl holds a knife, you may find some "art" in it.

Robin_Guan_Dao.jpg


When that knife has blood on, you won't find any art in it.

knife4.png

You're confusing "art" with "beauty" or "appeal"… "art", in this sense, denotes "skill". So, how much art does it take to take someone's head off with a sword? Quite a bit. Take it from someone who trains swordsmanship.
 

Tgace

Grandmaster
Joined
Jul 31, 2003
Messages
7,766
Reaction score
409
Take it from someone with an MBA in an "arts" field (I was a "graphic artist" in a previous life) and numerous credit hours of "philosophy of art"...trying to define "art" is something that has gone on unabated since Plato and Aristotle. Nobody here is going to corner the market on an unquestionable definition.

In my personal opinion, "Art" has an element of personal expression in it that separates it from "skill".

In my additional personal opinion. I think that many people (if not "most") who practice Martial Arts are really just practicing Martial Skills. The real problem is that ego and self-aggrandizement make many people think that being an "Artist" is somehow better than being "just skilled".
 

pgsmith

Master of Arts
Joined
Jun 1, 2005
Messages
1,589
Reaction score
483
Location
Texas
That I do completely disagree with by the way, at no point was I forcing anyone to adhere to anything, I was asking questions, possibly uncomfortable questions for some and possibly the wrong questions, but at no point was I asking anyone to comply to anything nor was I trying to force anyone into any belief of my own. I did disagree with some and ask more questions for clarification or to get deeper into the topic. Any feeling of being forced is all from your perception.
You cannot force me to do anything, this is true. You should actually try reading and understanding what I wrote though rather than simply reacting to your own misperceptions. I never once said that you were trying to force anyone to do anything. I said that your questions were asking others what definitions they would put on other people. I believe this is why you were not getting the discussion you were hoping to achieve.

Not an interesting enough topic to be worth the argument though.

Cheers,
 
OP
Xue Sheng

Xue Sheng

All weight is underside
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
34,274
Reaction score
9,386
Location
North American Tectonic Plate
You cannot force me to do anything, this is true. You should actually try reading and understanding what I wrote though rather than simply reacting to your own misperceptions. I never once said that you were trying to force anyone to do anything. I said that your questions were asking others what definitions they would put on other people. I believe this is why you were not getting the discussion you were hoping to achieve.

Not an interesting enough topic to be worth the argument though.

Cheers,

Don't want to argue either and I thought I had made that pretty clear throughout this post...but a question...did you write this

I believe so.
All of your questions to this point have been about what people would be willing to try and force others to adhere to.

You may want to try and comprehend what you are writing or at least try and understand that not everyone will interpret what you say exactly the same way you do....and you are right it is not worth arguing over....have a nice day
 

Jenna

Senior Master
MT Mentor
Joined
Apr 30, 2006
Messages
3,470
Reaction score
713
Location
Cluj
Does the term artist in any way refer to some kind of creativity? I mean like in other artistic endeavours, some thing, physical or musical or written or acted or whatever is being created yes? Is MA different or do we create some thing with our art also? Or is that not relevant? Jx
 

Hyoho

2nd Black Belt
Joined
Oct 6, 2013
Messages
802
Reaction score
368
Not really worried about it, just in a philosophical mood today

I've said it before and I'll say it again that the English term 'martial artist' is a very poor translation. Few nowadays take it to an artistic level. Even fewer follow philosophical values. That is if your practice has any philosophical views in the first place. Laymen totally get the wrong idea of what it is about and almost immediately jump to the conclusion that it contains violence, methods of self defence and attack. This may be true of using the body but has little to do with many weapon arts. I was applying to a consulate with a written visa request. The attorney at the time used the term "martial arts". The request was quickly denied. Had the term Japanese cultural activity been used I am sure it would have received less notice.

In Japan we use terms such as Uchi Deshi ( follower of a family) with seems far more appropriate to what some of us do.

Artistic value lies in the fact that we have reached such a high level of fundamentals that we can now add our own character to it to be appreciated by all.
 

Zero

Master Black Belt
Joined
Dec 6, 2006
Messages
1,284
Reaction score
297
I disagree, I played guitar (I was so-so), but I never called myself a musician, nor did I, or do I call someone a musician who is just learning, they are a student of music, but not a musician. I play didgeridoo and I am pretty good at it, still don't think I'm a musician. I am learning the Ukulele and I still do not call myself a musician. To me that would require a level of skill, experience and exposure that I do not have and I tend to look at "Martial Artist" much the same way
Hmmm...but now days there are a reasonable few "Musicians" out there with limited, at best, talent and a far lot more "singers" out there with close to zero talent but they are making an impact, getting on stages and some even (apparently) making good money...are they not "musicians" or "singers" or, even, "artists"?
 
OP
Xue Sheng

Xue Sheng

All weight is underside
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
34,274
Reaction score
9,386
Location
North American Tectonic Plate
Hmmm...but now days there are a reasonable few "Musicians" out there with limited, at best, talent and a far lot more "singers" out there with close to zero talent but they are making an impact, getting on stages and some even (apparently) making good money...are they not "musicians" or "singers" or, even, "artists"?

Good question, and since Brian's post (#38) about "martial practitioner" my views on such things have changed a bit and become a bit more general in nature
 

Latest Discussions

Top