Manaka Unsui Sensei's new Te Yari

[Meitetsu]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Sensei acquired a Te Yari this week. He told us a little about it. It is from the Edo era and was used inside. As the ceilings were only "about 6 -7 shaku 尺in height, it could be used inside easily. One could either thrust or slice with it.
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[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]The blade is leaf shaped (as you can tell from this awesome pic...) with more or less indecipherable Bonji 梵字or Sanskrit script.
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[chinto]

that would be a nice anti armor weapon in a tight corridor or room!!! very nice weapon.

 

[Meitetsu]

that would be a nice anti armor weapon in a tight corridor or room!!! very nice weapon.

Yeah, the blade shape means you can either stab or slice with it apparently.

 

[Chris Parker]

Nice little item there!

that would be a nice anti armor weapon in a tight corridor or room!!! very nice weapon.

Hmm, honestly, no. The flatter shape of the "leaf-blade" is, as Meitetsu said, to enable more of a "cutting action" than simply a thrusting weapon, and as such, are more suited to plain-clothed opponents rather than armoured. Additionally, armoured opponents, particularly in the Edo period, were not what would be expected to be encountered indoors, where the te-yari/te-boko would be used. Think of it more as a form of home-defence weapon, not a battlefield one.

 

[Uncle]

Nice little item there!



Hmm, honestly, no. The flatter shape of the "leaf-blade" is, as Meitetsu said, to enable more of a "cutting action" than simply a thrusting weapon, and as such, are more suited to plain-clothed opponents rather than armoured. Additionally, armoured opponents, particularly in the Edo period, were not what would be expected to be encountered indoors, where the te-yari/te-boko would be used. Think of it more as a form of home-defence weapon, not a battlefield one.

And spears are specialized for the thrust, especially against armoured opponents. It's just like a dagger. And amount you add to the width will begin to detract from the penetration capability which is even more important against armour.

 

[Chris Parker]

Except that's not the context of this particular weapon.

 

[Uncle]

Except that's not the context of this particular weapon.

The context of this particular weapon is that it's likely never going to be used against anyone armored or unarmored. I was commenting on the strength of one style of blade shape over another Chris. And you'll notice I said "which is even more important against armor." I didn't say that the, in this case hypothetical, enemy would be armored. I didn't say the enemy would be unarmored. All I said was that a slimmer blade profile increases penetration and against armor that becomes an even more important factor.

 

[Tez3]

I've just seen the polar opposite to this on a history documentary, an English Civil War Pike!

In the OP it says Sanskrit script, is there a particular reason for using this?

 

[40th Alabama]

As a "believe it or not", during the "recent unpleasantness" (War of Northern Aggression 1861-1865) some Georgia Militiamen went to war with similar weapons then called Joe Brown pikes or bridal cutters. The Governor of GA (Joe Brown) thought them to be an appropriate weapon for infantry. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/roadshow/archive/200301A32.html

 

[Chris Parker]

The context of this particular weapon is that it's likely never going to be used against anyone armored or unarmored. I was commenting on the strength of one style of blade shape over another Chris. And you'll notice I said "which is even more important against armor." I didn't say that the, in this case hypothetical, enemy would be armored. I didn't say the enemy would be unarmored. All I said was that a slimmer blade profile increases penetration and against armor that becomes an even more important factor.

No, the context is to do with the reason the weapon was developed, not whether or not Manaka is going to actually use it today for home defence. And, with that in mind, talking about it's usefulness against armour is, as I pointed out, completely irrelevant, as this form of spear was designed specifically not to deal with armour.

I've just seen the polar opposite to this on a history documentary, an English Civil War Pike!

In the OP it says Sanskrit script, is there a particular reason for using this?

Sanskrit is seen as the oldest written language, and is associated with a number of Buddhist elements. The usage of Sanskrit script on weapons is typically to either form a votive offering, or to enhance the luck and skill of the wielder.

 

[Meitetsu]

Sanskrit is seen as the oldest written language, and is associated with a number of Buddhist elements. The usage of Sanskrit script on weapons is typically to either form a votive offering, or to enhance the luck and skill of the wielder.

Yeah if anyone can make heads or tails of those characters let me know. I wonder if there are any common sayings that were regularly inscribed?

 

[Uncle]

No, the context is to do with the reason the weapon was developed, not whether or not Manaka is going to actually use it today for home defence. And, with that in mind, talking about it's usefulness against armour is, as I pointed out, completely irrelevant, as this form of spear was designed specifically not to deal with armour.

You're not paying attention Chris. Armor is not specifically the issue. I was talking about the blade profile with regard to penetration. Armor is just further resistance. It could be an unarmored attacker wearing a cowhide factory's worth of leather for all I care or other thicker clothing. All it means is an increased resistance to blade penetration which magnifies the effects of the blade profile.

 

[oaktree]

I was trying to look at the writing on the weapon. Most likely what is used would be Siddham as that is the script used most often
when writing Buddhist scriptures and is the main writing style for sutras in esoteric buddhism and what is used more often in Japan
as Kukai was very found of that writing style. Siddham does differ from Sanskrit like a varation of it as I believe the Siddham style comes from the Northern part.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddhaṃ_alphabet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanskrit
Each Buddha has a particular Siddham called a Bijaksara letter that represents it.
From looking at the markings on the weapon which are not very clear marks to my eyes of Siddham at 720x960 size the top is the only visible one that looks a little like one written for Variocana(he has more then one Bijaksara)
http://shingonjitemple.org/shingon/bonji/ You would have to scroll down to the 6th called Vam.
It may be Ham for Fudo Myoo
http://www.shingon.org/deities/jusanbutsu/fudo.html

If you can get clearer shots of the blade I can try to see but I am not that well versed in Siddham as others may be.

 

[Tez3]

I was curious because my Gurkha shift partner mentioned a little while ago the use of Sanskrit in Nepal. I knew it was used in India but not as far as Japan. Interesting!

 

[Chris Parker]

You're not paying attention Chris. Armor is not specifically the issue. I was talking about the blade profile with regard to penetration. Armor is just further resistance. It could be an unarmored attacker wearing a cowhide factory's worth of leather for all I care or other thicker clothing. All it means is an increased resistance to blade penetration which magnifies the effects of the blade profile.

Really? Chinto made the comment that the short spear would be "a nice anti-armour weapon", so I pointed out that it was designed specifically to deal with people who aren't in armour. You then spoke about the design of spears in regards to dealing with armour, which is not the form of spear being discussed here, so I pointed out that the context (for the weapon and it's design) was not anything to do with that, and you returned saying that the context seemed to be about how Manaka would use the weapon in a real situation today(?). Seriously, I'm not the one not paying attention here...

Oh, and I'm hardly the person to be trying to educate on the usage, history, design, or origin of such items here.

 

[Meitetsu]

I was trying to look at the writing on the weapon. Most likely what is used would be Siddham as that is the script used most often
when writing Buddhist scriptures and is the main writing style for sutras in esoteric buddhism and what is used more often in Japan
as Kukai was very found of that writing style. Siddham does differ from Sanskrit like a varation of it as I believe the Siddham style comes from the Northern part.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddha%E1%B9%83_alphabet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanskrit
Each Buddha has a particular Siddham called a Bijaksara letter that represents it.
From looking at the markings on the weapon which are not very clear marks to my eyes of Siddham at 720x960 size the top is the only visible one that looks a little like one written for Variocana(he has more then one Bijaksara)
http://shingonjitemple.org/shingon/bonji/ You would have to scroll down to the 6th called Vam.
It may be Ham for Fudo Myoo
http://www.shingon.org/deities/jusanbutsu/fudo.html

If you can get clearer shots of the blade I can try to see but I am not that well versed in Siddham as others may be.

Wow! I will see if I can get another picture of the blade. I appreciate the links!

 

[Meitetsu]

I was curious because my Gurkha shift partner mentioned a little while ago the use of Sanskrit in Nepal. I knew it was used in India but not as far as Japan. Interesting!

　
Sanskrit can also be seen on special funerary boards that are stood behind graves. They are called 卒塔婆 Sotoba. They rattle on windy evenings making about the most spooky sound I've ever heard.

 

[chinto]

Yeah, the blade shape means you can either stab or slice with it apparently.

I have a none leaf shaped at all Yari point, and I guarantee that you could slash, slice and thrust with it !!!

 

[Meitetsu]

Wow! I will see if I can get another picture of the blade. I appreciate the links!

That seems to be about the best i can do. Fairly worn down eh?