Machida Karate??

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AriesKai

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Now here is a fighting style that looks truly effective in every regard, even though I've only seen a very little bit of it!

It appears to be effective even in the street!


Any thoughts on this new martial art developed by the Legendary Lyoto "The Dragon" Machida??


Pro's & Con's?
 

MJS

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Now here is a fighting style that looks truly effective in every regard, even though I've only seen a very little bit of it!

It appears to be effective even in the street!


Any thoughts on this new martial art developed by the Legendary Lyoto "The Dragon" Machida??


Pro's & Con's?

As Omar said, he does Shotokan. IIRC, there was an article about him in BB magazine. Pretty interesting read. Anyways....he seems to have just taken the traditional art, and made it MMA ready.

I like him as a fighter and IMO, he has alot of success ahead of him.
 

Bill Mattocks

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Now here is a fighting style that looks truly effective in every regard, even though I've only seen a very little bit of it!

It appears to be effective even in the street!


Any thoughts on this new martial art developed by the Legendary Lyoto "The Dragon" Machida??


Pro's & Con's?

Might you be referring to this:

http://www.amazon.com/Machida-Do-Karate-Mixed-Martial-4-DVD/dp/B001VED3FI

Machida-Do Karate for Mixed Martial Arts


I have no idea what's on the DVD, so I cannot say. I am not sure he is promoting it as a new style of karate, but simply capitalizing on his name.

One thing appears certain in the professional MMA arena. The climb to the top is long and uncertain. The stay at the top is short. The fall afterwards is precipitous. Like most professional sports, there isn't much tapering off once a career is finished. You have to stack up as much money as you can as quickly as you can and get out.

I wish him well.
 

Omar B

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Now here is a fighting style that looks truly effective in every regard, even though I've only seen a very little bit of it!
It appears to be effective even in the street!
Any thoughts on this new martial art developed by the Legendary Lyoto "The Dragon" Machida??
Pro's & Con's?

In my haste earlier I missed that. How do you know it's street effective when the little you've seen is undoubtedly in the ring?

And don't buy into the "Machinda Karate" thing, it's Shotokan.
 
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AriesKai

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In my haste earlier I missed that. How do you know it's street effective when the little you've seen is undoubtedly in the ring?

And don't buy into the "Machinda Karate" thing, it's Shotokan.



I'm going to keep this as "less-hasteful" as possible...

Well actually, since you obviously have not read my introduction to "Martial Talk", i've been studying martial arts for over 16 years, beginning with traditional JuJitsu and have been in the US Military.
Yes, hand to hand fighting is something that we must learn, even though most military systems are garbage compared to other things; but also keep in mind that us military guys get into a LOT, and I mean, A LOT of fights with each other, and with the locals getting angry and froggy because we either just stole their woman away from them or have all the women wanting us and not them.
I didn't get involved with the bar scene, but I do think that it is quite hilarious that these 'pros' try to get antsie before getting knocked on their *** and getting slammed under a bar-stool, before getting their 10-20 buddies involved, just before we get nearly our entire unit or unit supports involved. It's a game that the locals' have never been able to win.

I earned my 1st Dan in Jujitsu at age 16. I've never used it in the ring, and don't really plan on it either. With that being said, I've been practicing martial arts and fighting since I was 5 years old, and now have over 16 years of experience with it.
I don't know your life story, but i'm assuming that because of where your profile says that you live, you've been in some real street brawls yourself.
Well, I have as well. I haven't been in "500 fights" or nothin, but I do have my fair share. Believe me.
I've been in many street encounters (fights) where i'd only used the little I learned from Okinawan Karate, and the rest that i'd learned in Jujitsu, boxing, and judo and have not lost a fight by doing so.
I tried to forget all of that when I was in boxing, tried to use boxing-only, and got my *** handed to me by those smaller and those much, much bigger. Actually, when I was 15, I fought a 17 year old that was 6'5 and some-300lbs. Let's just say that because I used boxing-only, I should have gone to the hospital... but didn't.
Thankfully, what i've learned in EPAK, i've never had to use...

Again, I do resent that comment, as you really do not know my entire life story as I do not know anything about yours.

Sure, I competed in ring events when I was a teenager growing up; but it's not my bread and butter. Actually, growing up, my life consisted in backyard redneck fights where there were no rules (except for the old, "Just don't kill each other! speech". No police were there to get involved (the closest 'police officer' was about 5+ miles away). Getting the police involved was considered 'taboo' and if anyone would've done so, they would've been outcasted and picked on their entire child hood. Hell, the police from where I grew up, at the time, didn't really care about us 'being boys'! We actually had a club growing up called, "The Redneck Fire Club"; obviously a private fight club. Keep in mind that this wasn't just a 'white boys' club; this was a club for us kids of all races. We didn't care what color skin you had, as it's was and is still irrelavent to WHO YOU ARE.
Most of the kids involved were the kids around the block, and from our football teams. In fact, many of the ol'boys from the old "Redneck Fire Club" still gets together and dukes it out during drunken nights of sitting infront of the old fire pit. Keep in mind that we didn't even know about UFC or any other sports event when we were kids, except for professional boxing. We emulated the old timers from many different era's (that we knew about by watching what our fathers wanted to watch with only 1 TV in the house) from Lennox Lewis, Oscar De La Hoya, Roy Jones, Evander Holifield, to watching old films from Jack Dempsy, Rocky Marciano, Muhammad Ali, and the liking. A lot of times we'd wear gloves, but of course, we were too poor to constantly afford a good pair of gloves (hell, barely running water for that matter), never had the proper protective equipment (such as headgear) except for the mouthpieces we'd get in football.
If we got kicked, we got kicked. If we got rabbit-punched, we got rabbit-punched. If we got head-butted, we got head-butted. If we got some teeth knocked out, or a bad cut.. well, you know the rest.
A lot of our fathers would actually watch us while drinking and would even bet on who would win with real cash. They'd even fight against each other over mere competition, or because of the fact that they were butt-hurt that their son lost. What a funny sight THAT was..
My father would actually whoop my *** given that I lost the fight, or especially if I refused to fight. It was non-negotiable.
When we were kids, if we lost a fight, we'd keep coming back for more until we finally won a victory; whether in the street or in the back yard, it didn't matter and we didn't care WHO you were. If you're Chuck Liddel, or Brock Lesnar, expect to get knocked out eventually. We're all the same way we used to be when we were kids, except for the fact that we're men today, and are far more 'laxed.
The biggest difference from then to now, is the fact that when we were growing up, 'the gloves' came off many, many times... I think i'll let you figure out what i'm saying.

I know for a fact that if I face someone on the street today that doesn't have at least the same amount of training and experience as I do and doesn't have the same aggressive drive and motivation in a fight (such as us poor boys do); I will hold my own in a fight. Also, take into account that I grew up in many bad areas (New York isn't the only place that has a HOOD), such as the projects, and was quite a very daring wild child. It's a wonder why I don't have a criminal record.

As I have learned that fighting is a last-resort thing, it's a reality that we all must face eventually. If you don't, then more power to you (really); but I would prefer to be better prepared for it.

Now back to the origional topic. In an attempt to correct everyone.. from what i've seen and heard; Machida has developed his own Karate system that has been approved by some japanese organization on Karate (I do forget the name), and is about to open up a school in Los Angeles (from what i've heard). Yes, it's based on the Shotokan system.
This could be me falling for false advertisement.. but what if it's not?
If not, i'm going to be studying under ANOTHER MMA Legend.
I've been very fortunate when it comes to training under legends and superstars. Some find that it's such a 'great deal'; but once you do it, it really isn't.
I've trained under the Gracies, under the Machado family, under Saekson Janjira, under Mark Hatmaker, Eddie Bravo, and have trained with Chuck Norris. Living in Dallas, Texas has plenty advantages :) especially when you're in the Security/Law Enforcement field.

So the book that's out (Machida-Do) is only a gimmic to the real thing.
I'd accuse it as being simply, 'an advertisement'.



If anyone else has something to say, please provide some reason/justification and/or proof. :shrug:


Thanks!!
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AriesKai

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You mean Shotokan I think.


Before I found 'Machida Karate', I've been seriously contemplating on whether to begin training in Shotokan Karate.

If this 'Machida Karate' is only a 'hoax', then Shotokan is what I will begin practicing.

What is good about Shotokan Karate? What is good about the style of fighting? I know that it's not just a style of fighting, but is also a way of life. Perhaps it could be the 'way of life' for me.

I'm 21 years of age. To be truthful with you, in my young age, i've developed some anger problems that I would love more than anything to get rid of. I practice meditation in an attempt to battle this anger, but it seems that it only keeps coming back.
I'm constantly battling problems in life that is close-to-impossible to do on my own; but i'm doing it.

My biggest motivation for finding that perfect martial art or martial arts mix, is because I don't feel that I should be wasting my time or money on something that's not going to suffice in a real street encounter when it comes to battling an assailant trying to rob my wife and kids. I'm going to need to have something extremely useful, given that I don't have a gun at the ready. It's unrealistic and psychotic for someone to believe that they should be carrying a gun everywhere they go (unless it's job-related).
I also want to be able to pass this down to my children and make it a family tradition, as well as something that they can take and pass on in their legacy.
This includes, "I want to give to my children what I never had" and, "My children shouldn't have to grow up the way that I did".

Any reasons why I should or shouldn't study this martial art (without the haste)?
 

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As I said, he did not create anything new that I can see, other than modifying Shotokan Karate to fit into the MMA ring.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyoto_Machida

Read fighting style. Now, Larry Tatum calls his school Larry Tatums Kenpo Karate, but it is not a style that Larry himself created. Larry trained and teaches Parker Kenpo. Seems to me that you're getting very hung up on the name...Machida Karate. Again, its Shotokan with his blend of other things added in.
 
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AriesKai

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As I said, he did not create anything new that I can see, other than modifying Shotokan Karate to fit into the MMA ring.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyoto_Machida

Read fighting style. Now, Larry Tatum calls his school Larry Tatums Kenpo Karate, but it is not a style that Larry himself created. Larry trained and teaches Parker Kenpo. Seems to me that you're getting very hung up on the name...Machida Karate. Again, its Shotokan with his blend of other things added in.

I see! You are right, it is the name that's caught my eye and attention!
Thank you, sir/ma'am!!
It looks like this is what I will be doing as well, then!
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AriesKai

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As I said, he did not create anything new that I can see, other than modifying Shotokan Karate to fit into the MMA ring.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyoto_Machida

Read fighting style. Now, Larry Tatum calls his school Larry Tatums Kenpo Karate, but it is not a style that Larry himself created. Larry trained and teaches Parker Kenpo. Seems to me that you're getting very hung up on the name...Machida Karate. Again, its Shotokan with his blend of other things added in.


Forgive me for being such a noob...
But what is it mixed with (other than Shotokan)? I can make my assumption that it's mixed with BJJ and Sumo... but I could be wrong.
Is this fighting style capable of being 'street-effective', in your opinion?
Any other opinions?


Thanks all!
 

Omar B

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I'm going to keep this as "less-hasteful" as possible...

Well actually, since you obviously have not read my introduction to "Martial Talk", i've been studying martial arts for over 16 years, beginning with traditional JuJitsu and have been in the US Military.
Yes, hand to hand fighting is something that we must learn, even though most military systems are garbage compared to other things; but also keep in mind that us military guys get into a LOT, and I mean, A LOT of fights with each other, and with the locals getting angry and froggy because we either just stole their woman away from them or have all the women wanting us and not them.
I didn't get involved with the bar scene, but I do think that it is quite hilarious that these 'pros' try to get antsie before getting knocked on their *** and getting slammed under a bar-stool, before getting their 10-20 buddies involved, just before we get nearly our entire unit or unit supports involved. It's a game that the locals' have never been able to win.

I earned my 1st Dan in Jujitsu at age 16. I've never used it in the ring, and don't really plan on it either. With that being said, I've been practicing martial arts and fighting since I was 5 years old, and now have over 16 years of experience with it.
I don't know your life story, but i'm assuming that because of where your profile says that you live, you've been in some real street brawls yourself.
Well, I have as well. I haven't been in "500 fights" or nothin, but I do have my fair share. Believe me.
I've been in many street encounters (fights) where i'd only used the little I learned from Okinawan Karate, and the rest that i'd learned in Jujitsu, boxing, and judo and have not lost a fight by doing so.
I tried to forget all of that when I was in boxing, tried to use boxing-only, and got my *** handed to me by those smaller and those much, much bigger. Actually, when I was 15, I fought a 17 year old that was 6'5 and some-300lbs. Let's just say that because I used boxing-only, I should have gone to the hospital... but didn't.
Thankfully, what i've learned in EPAK, i've never had to use...

Again, I do resent that comment, as you really do not know my entire life story as I do not know anything about yours.

Sure, I competed in ring events when I was a teenager growing up; but it's not my bread and butter. Actually, growing up, my life consisted in backyard redneck fights where there were no rules (except for the old, "Just don't kill each other! speech". No police were there to get involved (the closest 'police officer' was about 5+ miles away). Getting the police involved was considered 'taboo' and if anyone would've done so, they would've been outcasted and picked on their entire child hood. Hell, the police from where I grew up, at the time, didn't really care about us 'being boys'! We actually had a club growing up called, "The Redneck Fire Club"; obviously a private fight club. Keep in mind that this wasn't just a 'white boys' club; this was a club for us kids of all races. We didn't care what color skin you had, as it's was and is still irrelavent to WHO YOU ARE.
Most of the kids involved were the kids around the block, and from our football teams. In fact, many of the ol'boys from the old "Redneck Fire Club" still gets together and dukes it out during drunken nights of sitting infront of the old fire pit. Keep in mind that we didn't even know about UFC or any other sports event when we were kids, except for professional boxing. We emulated the old timers from many different era's (that we knew about by watching what our fathers wanted to watch with only 1 TV in the house) from Lennox Lewis, Oscar De La Hoya, Roy Jones, Evander Holifield, to watching old films from Jack Dempsy, Rocky Marciano, Muhammad Ali, and the liking. A lot of times we'd wear gloves, but of course, we were too poor to constantly afford a good pair of gloves (hell, barely running water for that matter), never had the proper protective equipment (such as headgear) except for the mouthpieces we'd get in football.
If we got kicked, we got kicked. If we got rabbit-punched, we got rabbit-punched. If we got head-butted, we got head-butted. If we got some teeth knocked out, or a bad cut.. well, you know the rest.
A lot of our fathers would actually watch us while drinking and would even bet on who would win with real cash. They'd even fight against each other over mere competition, or because of the fact that they were butt-hurt that their son lost. What a funny sight THAT was..
My father would actually whoop my *** given that I lost the fight, or especially if I refused to fight. It was non-negotiable.
When we were kids, if we lost a fight, we'd keep coming back for more until we finally won a victory; whether in the street or in the back yard, it didn't matter and we didn't care WHO you were. If you're Chuck Liddel, or Brock Lesnar, expect to get knocked out eventually. We're all the same way we used to be when we were kids, except for the fact that we're men today, and are far more 'laxed.
The biggest difference from then to now, is the fact that when we were growing up, 'the gloves' came off many, many times... I think i'll let you figure out what i'm saying.

I know for a fact that if I face someone on the street today that doesn't have at least the same amount of training and experience as I do and doesn't have the same aggressive drive and motivation in a fight (such as us poor boys do); I will hold my own in a fight. Also, take into account that I grew up in many bad areas (New York isn't the only place that has a HOOD), such as the projects, and was quite a very daring wild child. It's a wonder why I don't have a criminal record.

As I have learned that fighting is a last-resort thing, it's a reality that we all must face eventually. If you don't, then more power to you (really); but I would prefer to be better prepared for it.

Now back to the origional topic. In an attempt to correct everyone.. from what i've seen and heard; Machida has developed his own Karate system that has been approved by some japanese organization on Karate (I do forget the name), and is about to open up a school in Los Angeles (from what i've heard). Yes, it's based on the Shotokan system.
This could be me falling for false advertisement.. but what if it's not?
If not, i'm going to be studying under ANOTHER MMA Legend.
I've been very fortunate when it comes to training under legends and superstars. Some find that it's such a 'great deal'; but once you do it, it really isn't.
I've trained under the Gracies, under the Machado family, under Saekson Janjira, under Mark Hatmaker, Eddie Bravo, and have trained with Chuck Norris. Living in Dallas, Texas has plenty advantages :) especially when you're in the Security/Law Enforcement field.

So the book that's out (Machida-Do) is only a gimmic to the real thing.
I'd accuse it as being simply, 'an advertisement'.



If anyone else has something to say, please provide some reason/justification and/or proof. :shrug:


Thanks!!
icon12.gif

Wow that was a whole lot of verbiage to say nothing. Anyways, it's you who said even though I've only seen a very little bit of it!
 
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AriesKai

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Wow that was a whole lot of verbiage to say nothing.

That's your personal opinion. In my opinion, I just explained to you that I have more experience than 'just the little experience that I have in the ring'.
Let's keep this as formal and respectful as possible, without insulting each other. I believe in keeping the peace on these forums. I like this place.

Anyways, it's you who said even though I've only seen a very little bit of it!

Compared to many, many other martial artists who have more than 20 years of experience, I have very little experience even in my 16+ years of practicing. I seek knowledge and guidance from those who have been practicing for many years longer than I have.

Respectfully, thank you for your input.:asian:
 
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AriesKai

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Wow that was a whole lot of verbiage to say nothing. Anyways, it's you who said even though I've only seen a very little bit of it!


Ahhh, I remember what you're referring to..

AriesKai said:
Now here is a fighting style that looks truly effective in every regard, even though I've only seen a very little bit of it!


I was talking about "Machida Karate"; not martial arts, street-effectiveness, or ring fighting.

It's ok, just a misunderstanding!
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MJS

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Forgive me for being such a noob...
But what is it mixed with (other than Shotokan)? I can make my assumption that it's mixed with BJJ and Sumo... but I could be wrong.
Is this fighting style capable of being 'street-effective', in your opinion?
Any other opinions?


Thanks all!

It says it right in the link I posted. :) Here is what it says:

Machida uses a unique style in MMA that combines elements from his diverse training background to make it as suitable for the sport as possible. It is based mainly on shotokan karate and brazilian jiu jitsu, but also has techniques from Wrestling and Sumo[14] which Machida says makes him "fully prepared for any situation" in the Octagon. Often described as "elusive," Machida relies on cautious and precise counter-striking that frustrates his opponents into making mistakes

I find it interesting that in many of your posts, you ask whether or not its street effective. Let me say this...all arts have the potential to be street effective. How they're trained is what makes the difference.
 
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AriesKai

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It says it right in the link I posted. :) Here is what it says:



I find it interesting that in many of your posts, you ask whether or not its street effective. Let me say this...all arts have the potential to be street effective. How they're trained is what makes the difference.



I see....
icon10.gif


Thank you very much!!! This point you have made truly helps a lot!!


I feel that I am looking for something that will help me tremendously on my standup game (perhaps Machida's version of Shotokan will help me) in both offense and defense, I need to work on more of my Judo and San Shou (takedown with defense), more weapon defense, and some more on my ground game.
If I can find something that will help me with that.. I will be absolutely set, as I continue to train.
Perhaps someone can help me find what i'm looking for
icon7.gif
.
 

Omar B

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Ahhh, I remember what you're referring to..
I was talking about "Machida Karate"; not martial arts, street-effectiveness, or ring fighting.
It's ok, just a misunderstanding!
icon10.gif

What you are asking about it a much smaller subsection within a larger art. To learn "Machida karate" you have to first learn Shotokan and then pare it away with an eye towards what Lyoto meant to do, which is fight in the ring. MMA is broad in what can happen in the ring, so there are other things to consider as Lyoto did.
 
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AriesKai

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What you are asking about it a much smaller subsection within a larger art. To learn "Machida karate" you have to first learn Shotokan and then pare it away with an eye towards what Lyoto meant to do, which is fight in the ring. MMA is broad in what can happen in the ring, so there are other things to consider as Lyoto did.


I see. I really don't want to fight in the ring, even though I know I would do well.. I know I have the potential to become a great ring fighter.. but it's really not my interest.

You keep referring to 'the ring'. Do you personally feel that it ("Machida Karate") wouldn't be as effective in the street?
If not, what would (mixed with Shotokan, or simply Shotokan by itself)?

Thanks!
 

Omar B

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I didn't say that. Machida Karate and Shotokan are one in the same and they both work, there's plenty evidence of it. I point out that "the ring" changes the definition of how a conflict works. It's planned, it's on a good surface, there are established rules (which includes strikes you can and can't use hence the paring down of Shotokan as I mentioned before).

In the ring it's not necessarily a bad thing if you are on the ground. In the real world you most likely end up on pavement or concrete. In the ring you are never beset by multiple attackers, or attackers with weapons, you might not even see them ... as opposed to the ring's well lit conditions.

There's nothing wrong with learning what Lyoto does, but would you use it for the reasons he does and would what you do reflect that? I'm no competitive fighter, but if I went down that same path of education he did my result would be vastly different.
 

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I didn't say that. Machida Karate and Shotokan are one in the same and they both work, there's plenty evidence of it. I point out that "the ring" changes the definition of how a conflict works. It's planned, it's on a good surface, there are established rules (which includes strikes you can and can't use hence the paring down of Shotokan as I mentioned before).

In the ring it's not necessarily a bad thing if you are on the ground. In the real world you most likely end up on pavement or concrete. In the ring you are never beset by multiple attackers, or attackers with weapons, you might not even see them ... as opposed to the ring's well lit conditions.

There's nothing wrong with learning what Lyoto does, but would you use it for the reasons he does and would what you do reflect that? I'm no competitive fighter, but if I went down that same path of education he did my result would be vastly different.

QFT!!! I've been saying the same thing..that they're 1 in the same...somehow its being missed. Oh well....

Anyways....can't disagree with anything that you said here. Good post man! :)

Mike
 
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AriesKai

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I didn't say that. Machida Karate and Shotokan are one in the same and they both work, there's plenty evidence of it. I point out that "the ring" changes the definition of how a conflict works. It's planned, it's on a good surface, there are established rules (which includes strikes you can and can't use hence the paring down of Shotokan as I mentioned before).

So he took certain things from Shotokan that would be legal in the ring; but left the things that wouldn't out?

In the ring it's not necessarily a bad thing if you are on the ground. In the real world you most likely end up on pavement or concrete. In the ring you are never beset by multiple attackers, or attackers with weapons, you might not even see them ... as opposed to the ring's well lit conditions.

Definitely. The ring isn't the street, and it never could be. I'm still looking for a better stand up game that'll help me stay off the ground, but use the fact that the ground frckn hurts in real life. Being slammed down on gravel or pavement sucks.
I'm also looking for something that'll help with defending myself against opponents with weapons, or multiple attackers (with or without weapons).
I'm looking for something reality-based that's going to help me get myself and my family out of the worst case scenarios that DO happen.
Is Shotokan a good avenue? I've seen very, very little of it. One thing that i've seen out of a lot of Karate McDojo's, is the 'fancy dancy' Kata's and the, "Here, hold still while I kick your ***" moves.
I'm looking for something that's truly alive, that will help me with these worst case scenarios. My intentions isn't to 'kick ***', but are to 'get out of the situation by any means possible'.

There's nothing wrong with learning what Lyoto does, but would you use it for the reasons he does and would what you do reflect that? I'm no competitive fighter, but if I went down that same path of education he did my result would be vastly different.

I'm not interested in being in the ring by any means. I'm just looking for something that'll help me fight against even the fiercest of opponents, whether it a single thug with or without a weapon or multiple thugs with or without weapons.


I could care less about these opponents well-being, as they wouldn't mine or my family's either. I'm looking to disable my opponent, or even kill him, so he can no longer attack or harm myself, my family, or anyone else for that matter (if I can help it).

So maybe "Machida Karate" isn't the way for me after all..
 
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