Looking for Ninjitsu Training Partners in the NW Indiana Area

[ronin7411]

Hi, I stay in the Northwest Indiana area and train at the World Gym in Highland, Indiana because that is the only gym out in my area that will allow their members to spar and train in the martial arts openly. I'm basically trying to find a sparring partner to help me with my training in Ninjitsu and to also help me open the only Ninjitsu dojo in the Northwest Indiana area. I'm not style discriminatory as long as the person wants to help me accomplish my goals as well as theirs I'll be more than happy to train and spar with them. Currently the only things I can bring to sparring with anyone is 2 pairs of Top Contender MMA gloves (one Large the other Regular), 3 Velcro connecting mats, an Everlast Punching Bag, and my membership to World Gym to use their facilities to train at. If you can help me out or are looking for another person to help you with your studies in Ninjitsu or in another style in the Northwest Indiana area please contact me at [email protected] to see if we can talk about training and sparring with each other. Also bring your friends and any other people you know that stay in the Northwest Indiana area that would like to train in Ninjitsu as well. The more people that I can get to spar and train with us the better for everyone working with me. Thanks to anyone that can help me out.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Here are links to two reputable Bujinkan Dojo's. Note neither are looking for training partners but are indeed real teacher's in the art. If you contact them they may take you on as a student.

http://columbiacitybujinkan.webs.com/Home.html

http://www.bloomingtonbujinkan.com/

 

[ronin7411]

Thank you Brian for your assistance but I stay way too far away from them (Mapquested both dojos along time ago and a 2-3 hour drive is a bit too costly now in days on my budget) and I'm working on a very limited budget plus when most schools train at around 5pm-7pm I'm in college classes at those times. I'm not close minded so if the person wants to study another style different from Ninjitsu I'm willing to work with them as well. As long as the person stays in the NW Indiana area and has a desire to master a martial arts style no matter what it is or what country of origin the style is from I'm down to train with them if they are down to train with me. Again thanks Brian for your assistance.

 

[jks9199]

If you check around the school, lots of them have several options available.

But if you're interested in training in the Bujinkan, why not contact the schools? It may turn out that they have students in your area who would form a training group -- or let you join theirs. If you make excuses... that's all you'll get.

 

[ronin7411]

I did that already the Bujinkan did have a school out here and they closed it down to merge with one of their Chicago subdivisions. I've also contacted the ones in Chicago and tried to contact someone that stayed in my area to do some Ninjitsu (proof will be provided as well) training as well and that only lead to go to school to train and the guy I did find in my area never got back to me to do some Ninjitsu training. So since Kutaki No Maru forum's members will stand me up and only lead you on until you get fed up of their antics lead me to here to find people to train with. I'm not a style bashing jerk either if the person doesn't want to study Ninjitsu but another style that is totally different from mine go on ahead I can help you out as well with mastering your style too as long as you help me master Ninjitsu. I like to cross train as well so if its a person that is a grappler, striker, reality based, or a traditionalist it doesn't bother me as long as they want to train with me I'm happy.

http://www.kutaki.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=4552&forum=23

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Actually on Kutaki No Mura they were giving you excellent advise!

Find a real teacher and learn! Really you have lot's of options within and hour or two so if you really wish to learn Budo Taijutsu then it is there for you if you are willing to make the sacrifice. When I first started training I drove an hour and within a month I drove and hour and a half every week to my instructors home. If you wish these specific skill sets you have to be willing to sacrifice and buying books, dvd's, etc. is a really poor substitute from actually finding a teacher! (really poor and your skill sets will invariably be damaged)

Now if you train on your own with some friends, etc. do not think that you are training in Ninjutsu because you are not! You need a real, live, living and breathing instructor!

Wishing you all the best!

 

[Bruno@MT]

+1 on what Brian said. Even if making that trip many times per week is not practical, you can go to class every other week or so and practise on your own. That way you can train at home, and use the class to correct your mistakes and get new material to study. If you find a sensei willing to do this, then it could be a good way to proceed.

 

[Kajowaraku]

The keyword here is "sacrifice". Not always easy, but the real deal always comes at a price, even if you don't have to drive for hours. Just slapping the label "ninjitsu" on physical combat training is easy, but ultimatly deceptive. You need a teacher, honestly. Making a sacrifice or being patient in getting there will only make you appreciate it more when you accomplish it, and will give you much more satisfaction in the end.

Either way: good luck.

Edit: If you're really looking for a teacher closer by: i think Fujin Dojo (genbukan) is not that far from you either. http://www.fujindojo.com/.

 

[ronin7411]

Thanks for your help everyone but this is what hurts me as well I got to school at 6:30 pm so I'm looking for people that can do some afternoon or some morning training. If there is anybody on this forum that stays in my area drop me a line it doesn't matter what style you study or want to study as long as we can get train with each other. (Would of replied earlier but got mid-terms this week)

 

[ronin7411]

Well, I finally found someone to train with me he's currently in the Army and uses Modern Army Combatives plus he's trying out for Special Forces so that helps me out in the combat aspect of using my martial arts skills in the real world. We're still looking for more people to train with in my area so drop me line if you're in the NW Indiana area and are looking for people to train with it doesn't matter what kind of martial arts background you come from as long as you want to train with us you're more than welcome to join us.

 

[Shinobi Teikiatsu]

Maybe I'm out of line here, but I can't help but notice your reffering to ninjutsu (or budo taijutsu) as ninjitsu, which not many students, or former students tend to do. That said, you also keep insisting that you are not discriminatory and would train in any style. would you mind enlightening me as to what kind of training you have in ninjutsu (considering your original post mentioned a desire to open a dojo, I assume you hold at least a 4th degree black belt ranking?)

I am in no way attempting to attack you, but I would very much like to know why, if you are not style discriminatory, you don't simply look for a school that operates in the morning or early afternoon (surely there must be SOME school that offers classes like that)

 

[ronin7411]

Well, Shinobi as to why I spell Ninjitsu the way I do instead of using Budo Taijitsu, Ninjutsu, Shinobi Jutsu, or the many other variants that Ninjitsu has been called is personal preference. This can also be applied to other styles like how some Kenpo practitioners spell Kenpo with a M instead of a N in example Kempo same style just different spelling. You can also see this applied to Kung Fu stylists that instead of the way we are use to seeing Kung Fu spelled they start off instead of a K but with a G which comes out as Gung Fu but is it still the same Chinese martial art that we have known for all these years yes.

I also don't have no ranks as well in Ninjitsu which is why I'm looking for people that want to train with me in it that stay in my area. Also I'm doing a recommendation that I was told to do from Kutaki No Maru's forum members that if going to a dojo is too expensive or inconvenient for me I can start a study group then have one of their instructors come and visit me to critique our Ninjitsu movements. Now I'm not going to lie you my main objective with my Ninjitsu training is to get my Instructor Certification to open a dojo out here in my area. This is because the Bujinkan closed the one dojo that was in my area after the MMA/BJJ explosion hit here so I'm bringing a style out here that isn't out here conveniently that really needs to be out here. (In my opinion at the least) I also can provide you the link to the Bujinkan dojo listings which includes people looking for study groups like me as well and one that does is a Genbukan dojo in Chicago and the the other one is at a Bujinkan dojo in the NW side of Chicago which that is only one day out of the week at $90 a month. Which I'm not dumb I know I need more than just one day of out the week in training in Ninjitsu to get to the level that I need and want. Plus Chicago locations are a killer to my budget because of the length of time I got to travel to attend their classes and still keep up with the bills at the house along with other essentials like groceries.

Also I'm a heavy supporter of cross-training into other styles of the martial arts so if my training partner wants to study another style that isn't Ninjitsu its cool with me as long as we still train with each other and critique each others maneuvers I'm cool. I'm not just style bashing jerk if the person that wants to train with me comes from a different martial arts background than mine I'm not holding anything against them lets just train to improve both of our martial arts expertise. The problem I have with training with the Chicago Ninjitsu groups is that it is way too expensive on my budget and since I got to school at 7pm-9pm I can't attend their formal classes because it cuts into my education.

Shinobi, in my opinion you didn't do no attack towards me you just wanted to know a little bit about me and why I was looking for people to with in Ninjitsu. Also currently I'm training in Army Combatives/Army BJJ with my friend Chase in the morning plus when I get the time to I go to the free Tang Soo Do and Cardio Karate classes that are held in the morning at my gym but my love will always be for Ninjitsu and the style that I truly want to master and teach to the people in my area.

Bujinkan Dojo Directory

http://www.ninjutsu.com/dojos-links_usa.shtml

Chicago Bujinkan Dojos

http://www.sgtidojo.com/index.htm

http://www.hiken.com/ClassSchedule/tabid/353/Default.aspx

Genbukan Dojo in Chicago

http://www.fujindojo.com/schedule.html

Bujinkan Dojos in Indiana

http://goshinbudodojo.com/instructors.html

http://www.bloomingtonbujinkan.com/index.html

Genbukan Dojo in Indiana

http://www.inzenshingroup.com/schedule.html

 

[jks9199]

Well, Shinobi as to why I spell Ninjitsu the way I do instead of using Budo Taijitsu, Ninjutsu, Shinobi Jutsu, or the many other variants that Ninjitsu has been called is personal preference. This can also be applied to other styles like how some Kenpo practitioners spell Kenpo with a M instead of a N in example Kempo same style just different spelling. You can also see this applied to Kung Fu stylists that instead of the way we are use to seeing Kung Fu spelled they start off instead of a K but with a G which comes out as Gung Fu but is it still the same Chinese martial art that we have known for all these years yes.

I'm not going to tear into it here -- but if you look around MartialTalk, you'll see some in-depth explanations about why it's ninjutsu, and why the other terms are in use now. To be blunt, you sound like a fanboy/wannabe right now.

I also don't have no ranks as well in Ninjitsu which is why I'm looking for people that want to train with me in it that stay in my area. Also I'm doing a recommendation that I was told to do from Kutaki No Maru's forum members that if going to a dojo is too expensive or inconvenient for me I can start a study group then have one of their instructors come and visit me to critique our Ninjitsu movements. Now I'm not going to lie you my main objective with my Ninjitsu training is to get my Instructor Certification to open a dojo out here in my area. This is because the Bujinkan closed the one dojo that was in my area after the MMA/BJJ explosion hit here so I'm bringing a style out here that isn't out here conveniently that really needs to be out here. (In my opinion at the least) I also can provide you the link to the Bujinkan dojo listings which includes people looking for study groups like me as well and one that does is a Genbukan dojo in Chicago and the the other one is at a Bujinkan dojo in the NW side of Chicago which that is only one day out of the week at $90 a month. Which I'm not dumb I know I need more than just one day of out the week in training in Ninjitsu to get to the level that I need and want. Plus Chicago locations are a killer to my budget because of the length of time I got to travel to attend their classes and still keep up with the bills at the house along with other essentials like groceries.

One day of class a week coupled with dedicated training on your own can be a very successful way to train an art.

Also I'm a heavy supporter of cross-training into other styles of the martial arts so if my training partner wants to study another style that isn't Ninjitsu its cool with me as long as we still train with each other and critique each others maneuvers I'm cool. I'm not just style bashing jerk if the person that wants to train with me comes from a different martial arts background than mine I'm not holding anything against them lets just train to improve both of our martial arts expertise. The problem I have with training with the Chicago Ninjitsu groups is that it is way too expensive on my budget and since I got to school at 7pm-9pm I can't attend their formal classes because it cuts into my education.

How are you going to critique movements and techniques in a style you don't know? How is someone else going to critique your movements and technique if they don't know what's right?

Let me give you an analogy. I'm going to assume that you don't know how to play cricket; not too many people in the US do, right? So, even if I give you a cricket bat, wicket, and the rest of the gear... how are you going to play it right? Except the movements of taijutsu are much more complex...

Shinobi, in my opinion you didn't do no attack towards me you just wanted to know a little bit about me and why I was looking for people to with in Ninjitsu. Also currently I'm training in Army Combatives/Army BJJ with my friend Chase in the morning plus when I get the time to I go to the free Tang Soo Do and Cardio Karate classes that are held in the morning at my gym but my love will always be for Ninjitsu and the style that I truly want to master and teach to the people in my area.

Great goal. But maybe you should let it wait a little while, and concentrate on your schooling for the moment. Then, when school is done, and you have a different sort of flexibility in your schedule, you can train and be sure that you're training properly. For the moment, why not take advantage of the free classes you have available, and keep your eyes open.

Many years back, when I first started formal training in the martial arts, my goal was to learn ninjutsu; Stephen Hayes was writing his books, and on the cover of what seemed like every other issue of Black Belt. But I couldn't find any schools in the area; resources like the internet were in their infancy at the time. A few friends came across this class in an obscure martial art almost by accident... and they told me about it. So, I gave it a try, "until I could find a ninjutsu class." Well, after about 25 years, I'm still training in that art.

Don Roley has two relevant blog entries; you can find them HERE. See the entries titled "You can't learn Bujinkan from DVDs" and "Patchy Bujinkan."

 

[ronin7411]

Practice and practice is the only way you can master anything in the martial arts then if you add in the unexpected nature of a real street fight in with your training with people from various backgrounds (hint Chase is a grappler and submission expert and I'm a striker and kickboxer I'm improving my ground game with him) you can prepare yourself for any type of situation you can run into in the streets. Also the Kempo/Kenpo schools out in my area use both spellings still along with the Kung Fu/Gung Fu schools in my area along with ones in Chicago. So if they are still using the spelling they like they must obviously don't care of what people think of them using that particular spelling of their style. I wasn't sent from God to please everybody but if I can find someone that is willing to train with me in Ninjitsu or any style period that stays in my area that is open in the mornings I'm willing to work with them if they are willing to work with them.

 

[jks9199]

Practice and practice is the only way you can master anything in the martial arts then if you add in the unexpected nature of a real street fight in with your training with people from various backgrounds (hint Chase is a grappler and submission expert and I'm a striker and kickboxer I'm improving my ground game with him) you can prepare yourself for any type of situation you can run into in the streets. Also the Kempo/Kenpo schools out in my area use both spellings still along with the Kung Fu/Gung Fu schools in my area along with ones in Chicago. So if they are still using the spelling they like they must obviously don't care of what people think of them using that particular spelling of their style. I wasn't sent from God to please everybody but if I can find someone that is willing to train with me in Ninjitsu or any style period that stays in my area that is open in the mornings I'm willing to work with them if they are willing to work with them.

Again -- I ask a simple question.

How can you get better practicing if you don't know whether or not you're practicing properly?

Do you think someone who's a great player on Guitar Hero can actually play the guitar from that? Or do they need an actual guitar teacher to teach them on an instrument with actual strings and frets?

It's not an original statement -- but it sums it up well:
You've been lied to your whole life; practice doesn't make perfect. Only PERFECT practice makes perfect!

 

[ronin7411]

Well, you can learn how to play a real guitar with Guitar Hero or Rock Band already it does require a little modification right now to do so but they are developing products as we speak to do so commercially and I can provide proof of this too. As for your previous question that is why you ask friends of yours that have experience with that area to give you assistance based upon their experience. Like if you are having a problem with applying a wrist lock in self defense maneuver from a book or video you can ask a friend of yours that has a background in Jiujitsu, Hapkido, Aikido, or Judo to help you out with that lock and apply it properly on you so that you can learn it and then practice it with your friends.

An example of this is one time I was having a problem with learning how to properly apply a Triangle Choke on someone from my back because I wouldn't put the back of my left knee over my right ankle. But my friend Luis who is a professional MMA fighter came by to see me and he saw that I was doing it wrong and showed me the proper way of performing it to make the person on the receiving tap or get their neck broke. (when he applied it on me I could hear my neck straining and stretching would he cranked on it) Then I rolled around with my friend Chase again and then I got the Triangle Choke again on him and tapped him out (after he punched my face in for a couple of minutes:lol. You are right that it is always good to have someone that is highly experienced and a trained instructor to assist you with your expertise in the martial arts but even Luis told me that all martial arts share one thing in common body mechanics.

Then just out of curiosity I asked him to look over the martial arts books and videos that I have to help me train with and he actually told me that the joint locks and chokes in the Ninjitsu books and videos I have are the same holds that he was taught in BJJ but just a little tamer. I truly appreciate the knowledge everyone is giving me but I do agree with him because some of the same joint locks in Aikido are also seen in Hapkido and some of the kicks in Tae Kwon Do are seen in Tang Soo Do. So some martial arts styles use the same maneuvers but just call them different names or change them around a little bit. Also I was the victim of him showing me all of the joint locks and chokes from my videos and books with the only comment he gave to me about them was that he just learned to apply these same locks and chokes while standing up or in close range to the assailant instead of being on the ground trying to apply them.

Learning How To Play a Real Guitar with Guitar Hero

http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/03/guitar-wizard-guitar-hero-with-a-real-guitar/

http://www.musicwizard.com/i_can_play.php

http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/07/guitar-rising-perfects-the-guitar-hero-with-real-guitars-genre/

http://www.guitarrising.com/about.html

 

[Chris Parker]

Right. My turn.

ronin7411, before I get into the post below, I'm going to state a few things categorically. They will probably be repeated below, but repetition can help things sink in...

There is no such thing as "ninjitsu". If you continue to use this term, personal preference or no, you will be treated as someone with no knowledge whatsoever, and any post you make regarding ninjutsu training will be taken in that light. Really, it's not that hard, I mean the "i" and the "u" are right next to each other on the keyboard...

Without instruction you cannot learn a martial art. Period. We'll get to your specific comments below. But without instruction from someone experienced and trained in the art you wish to be learning, you will never be training in that art, you will never be learning it. Period.

Okay, on with the fun. The blue bits will be mine, by the way.

Well, you can learn how to play a real guitar with Guitar Hero or Rock Band already it does require a little modification right now to do so but they are developing products as we speak to do so commercially and I can provide proof of this too.

No, you can use Rock Band-like software to gain some understanding of hwo to play, but you cannot use Rock Band with it's plastic buttoned "guitar" controller to learn to play the real instrument. Ask most guitarists if they like games like Guitar Hero and they'll usually start swearing and muttering under their breath. It's damn hard for guitarists, especially if you actually know how to play the song in question, as your hands naturally form the chord shapes you would use, and that is not what the game demands. In other words, Guitar Hero does not a guitarist make. It makes a Guitar Hero player. If you want your martial arts education to be similarly based on incorrect information, habits, and technique, go for it. But it will absolutely not be Ninjutsu.

For the record, I am a guitarist (as well as a few other instruments), and I hate that game. Hate it. (Leaves swearing and muttering under his breath...)

As for your previous question that is why you ask friends of yours that have experience with that area to give you assistance based upon their experience. Like if you are having a problem with applying a wrist lock in self defense maneuver from a book or video you can ask a friend of yours that has a background in Jiujitsu, Hapkido, Aikido, or Judo to help you out with that lock and apply it properly on you so that you can learn it and then practice it with your friends.

Generic, okay. But that in no way makes you training in Ninjutsu. And if you think a martial art is defined by it's techniques, you are way off. And if you are learning from a video or book, stop. They are reference materials for further study at the best, simple wastes of time at worst.

You seem to be concerned with the concept of physical isolated techniques, and as I said, if you think that is what defines a martial art, you are quite wrong. The techniques are the result of what defines a martial art, not the other way around. Books won't help. Nor will just having a friend come over and "help you out".

An example of this is one time I was having a problem with learning how to properly apply a Triangle Choke on someone from my back because I wouldn't put the back of my left knee over my right ankle. But my friend Luis who is a professional MMA fighter came by to see me and he saw that I was doing it wrong and showed me the proper way of performing it to make the person on the receiving tap or get their neck broke. (when he applied it on me I could hear my neck straining and stretching would he cranked on it)

Your friend Luis came by to see you? Where were you doing this? And how were you learning, was someone teaching you? Or was this you playing around with something you got from a book or video? Oh, and a triangle choke isn't really supposed to break a neck, it's a constriction of the carotid arteries using your thigh and the opponents arm, so I'd say that your friend isn't offering the best advice on application.

Then I rolled around with my friend Chase again and then I got the Triangle Choke again on him and tapped him out (after he punched my face in for a couple of minutes:lol. You are right that it is always good to have someone that is highly experienced and a trained instructor to assist you with your expertise in the martial arts but even Luis told me that all martial arts share one thing in common body mechanics.

Luis is wrong. Simple as that. And the idea is to get someone experienced in what you are learning to help you, not just someone who happens to drop by with experience in something else. So far, no Ninjutsu.

Then just out of curiosity I asked him to look over the martial arts books and videos that I have to help me train with and he actually told me that the joint locks and chokes in the Ninjitsu books and videos I have are the same holds that he was taught in BJJ but just a little tamer.

Hmm, he may have missed something then. We don't go for submissions and tap-outs. Your book may have only had some basic applications, but to say it's "tamer"? No, it's designed with a different philosophy in mind. He's making himself bigger by minimising another system, you know. I've spent my time in BJJ, and frankly they're incredible on the ground, but there is nothing there that I would say is nastier than what we do. In fact, I would actually say the opposite. And to be clear, neither is better, just better suited to the particular philosophies of each system.

I truly appreciate the knowledge everyone is giving me but I do agree with him because some of the same joint locks in Aikido are also seen in Hapkido and some of the kicks in Tae Kwon Do are seen in Tang Soo Do. So some martial arts styles use the same maneuvers but just call them different names or change them around a little bit.

Okay, here's what I've been getting towards. While there are definate similarites between the technical aspects of various systems, that is not what defines an art. What defines an art is it's guiding philosophy. That gives an art it's construct and boundaries, how it is used, where, when, and for what purpose. These changes mean that the way an outside wrist twist is done in Ninjutsu, Aikido, Hapkido, Koryu Jujutsu, Gendai Jujutsu, or any other system, although essentially the same movement, can be radically different in application. And to learn those subtle differences that makes this Ninjutsu, but that Hapkido is what you need an instructor for.

Practicing/training/studying/exploring with an Army Combatives guy is far from training/studying/learning Ninjutsu. If you don't get that, then you will never understand martial arts.

Also I was the victim of him showing me all of the joint locks and chokes from my videos and books with the only comment he gave to me about them was that he just learned to apply these same locks and chokes while standing up or in close range to the assailant instead of being on the ground trying to apply them.

Mechanics do not make a martial art. Techniques do not make a martial art. In this fashion, even if I were to give you and your friend Ninjutsu methods, he would still be doing his MMA, just with different mechanics. Techniques do not make a martial art. I really can't make it any clearer than that.

 

[ronin7411]

Since everyone is suggesting to me to go to a Bujinkan or sub group school and practice the style instead of using books and videos I want to provide everyone with a video from Shidoshi Jeffrey Miller on using home study courses plus he's a Bujinkan Ninjutsu instructor. Also you can break someone's neck with using a typical choke hold if you apply enough pressure plus if you got enough strength to do so. (Proof at the bottom of the message also don't forget my friend Luis is a professional MMA fighter) When he meant tamer he showed me that in Ninjitsu or Ninjutsu or whatever the H$%^ people refer to spell it as in Ninjitsu some practitioners believe in applying the rear naked hold while standing behind the person attacking them which can easily get you flipped over. But in BJJ when you apply the rear naked choke you also apply the body scissors which in his words BJJ is all over the person you're fighting with like an animal. While Ninjitsu just seeks the quickest and easiest way to finish the fight even if it leaves you open for a really bad counter but not to stay there and beat the guy to death. Also like most broke people I train out of my garage with using mats to protect ourselves when it goes to the ground or when we get thrown. The thing I'm doing is just fighting with my friends or anybody that I can find then after the person beats you all they do is tell you how they beat you and how to prevent the situation from happening again or teaches you how to escape the situation based on their experience. Which is why I'm not a style bashing a$$#@&$ I value input from all sources from other martial artists in my proximity and if they know more than the both of us fighting then they can help us out as well.

Shidoshi Jeffrey Miller

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNhEPyEqoyY#

http://www.warrior-concepts-online.com/learn-ninjutsu.html

Proof You can Break Someone's Neck with a Choke Hold

 

[Chris Parker]

I'll try to make this gentle. Okay, maybe not.

Since everyone is suggesting to me to go to a Bujinkan or sub group school and practice the style instead of using books and videos I want to provide everyone with a video from Shidoshi James Miller on using home study courses plus he's a Bujinkan Ninjutsu instructor.

Yeah, I know Jeffery's stuff (it's Jeffery Miller, by the way, not James) Couple of things. 1, he's selling you an online course. 2, listen to what he actually says! The first thing is that there is no substitute for a real teacher. From there, he goes on to say that the training needs to be structured, which is not what you are doing.

Oh, and we're not suggesting that you go to a Bujinkan group, just that if you want to be training in Ninjutsu, you need to go to a Ninjutsu school, and that means Bujinkan, Genbukan, Jinenkan, or a legitimate off-shoot.

Also you can break someone's neck with using a typical choke hold if you apply enough pressure plus if you got enough strength to do so. (Proof at the bottom of the message also don't forget my friend Luis is a professional MMA fighter)

Nope, actually, it shows what I described (even though it's a different choke being applied here). Your proof? That they say that if you apply enough pressure, and then torque the neck, it can break? For one thing, it's no longer a choke then. But really, that show is full of so many holes, including in this demontration, that it really isn't great evidence on your side of things.

Luis may be an MMA fighter, professional or not, but that doesn't mean he knows about Ninjutsu. All it means is that he has experience in MMA. His word is far from authoritative in this regard. Remember, MMA desired outcomes are very different from Ninjutsu desired outcomes, and he is not going to apply a choke the same way we will, so his take is good only for his approach, not ours.

When he meant tamer he showed me that in Ninjitsu or Ninjutsu or whatever the H$%^ people refer to spell it as in Ninjitsu some practitioners believe in applying the rear naked hold while standing behind the person attacking them which can easily get you flipped over.

Okay, it's Ninjutsu. The reason, very simply, is that "jitsu" and "jutsu" are very different words in Japanese, with "jitsu" meaning truth, and "jutsu" meaning practical art. So by using ninjitsu, you are incorrect. There is no preference here, just the correct word. If you really want to learn this art (honestly I'm having my doubts, as you are looking to a number of things as references that are the antithesis of Ninjutsu), let's start by you actually learning how to spell and pronounce the name, okay? This is not something for you to get huffy over, you are using the wrong term, we are correcting you so you can learn, that is all.

Don't know where on earth you got that belief from. We have techniques which include defences against a rear choke which involve throwing the attacker forward, but that is very different from saying we have a belief that you can get easily flipped over. That's like saying we believe that if you throw a punch, you will be easily kicked in Tae Kwon Do...

But in BJJ when you apply the rear naked choke you also apply the body scissors which in his words BJJ is all over the person you're fighting with like an animal.

Okay, I've done my time in a BJJ school, so I'm more than a little experienced in everything you are discussing. The main difference here is one of philosophies; BJJ is geared towards ground fighting, most specifically competitive these days, so going to ground, tying yourself up, going one on one is fine. Ninjutsu on the other hand is geared toward survival, so these tactics are not ideal. It's just too dangerous in a group or street situation. Realise that the BJJ approach is very limited, even if it is strong. Oh, and don't make the mistake of thinking that their approach is the only strong one, believe me, I have plenty of ways of "tweaking" a simple RNC that makes it even nastier than the one you are describing. And that is when standing, so you know.

While Ninjitsu just seeks the quickest and easiest way to finish the fight even if it leaves you open for a really bad counter but not to stay there and beat the guy to death.

Well, for one thing, that would be criminal in most places. And no, we do not consider the fight "finished" if it leaves the opponent open to continue to attack in such a manner. Not really finished there, is it. You're really missing pretty much everything about us, you know. The quickest, easiest way to finish a fight could be many things, it could be simple avoidance, not allowing the assault in the first place, it could be a solid pre-emptive strike, taking the other guy out before he has a chance to attack, it could be a devestating counter, destroying the opponents physical ability to continue, or more. Not sure what you think "finishing the fight" would be if we leave the other guy able to deliver a "really bad counter"...

Also like most broke people I train out of my garage with using mats to protect ourselves when it goes to the ground or when we get thrown. The thing I'm doing is just fighting with my friends or anybody that I can find then after the person beats you all they do is tell you how they beat you and how to prevent the situation from happening again or teaches you how to escape the situation based on their experience.

Fine. But that is not learning a martial art, and it certainly is not learning, training, or studying Ninjutsu. You are fixated on techniques, without understanding where the art actually begins. Either learn under an instructor, or recognise that you are not studying an art. Do you see the difference?

Which is why I'm not a style bashing a$$#@&$ I value input from all sources from other martial artists in my proximity and if they know more than the both of us fighting then they can help us out as well.

Well, when it comes to martial arts, I would suggest that I know quite a bit more than you, as do many others here. We have a great deal of experience in many arts, including the one you are asking about. But you really do need to listen to what we are saying, otherwise this entire exercise has very little point.

I appreciate financial hardship, but that should only reinforce to you the realities of your situation. If you are not in a position to learn from an instructor, you are not in a position to learn. But if you really want it, you will find a way. If you are bale to afford a computer, an internet connection, a monthly online subscription, videos, books, then I submit that you can scrape up enough to visit a school as well. It's usually not as expensive as you may think.

 

[Chris Parker]

Self correction here. I misread a part of the earlier post, but that doesn't change my earlier comments. However, I will address the comment itself here.

When he meant tamer he showed me that in Ninjitsu or Ninjutsu or whatever the H$%^ people refer to spell it as in Ninjitsu some practitioners believe in applying the rear naked hold while standing behind the person attacking them which can easily get you flipped over.

No, the preference for Ninjutsu practitioners is for standing grappling. The belief of being "easily flipped over" is Luis', correct? Well, I would say that that shows a limited understanding of a rear naked choke, after all, a standing choke is pretty standard from a security viewpoint. A standing rear choke, as I apply it, is fast, and very strong. It is also applied in a way that makes it rather hard to flip me over, just so you know.