Lone wing chun practitioners need help!!!

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Hi , I've been practicing wing chun with a practice partner for about eight months now and i've been doing all the research about the forms and various concepts online though i may not be as experienced as you guys i have a pretty clear idea of the forms and am always trying to learn new things... my question to you is, is it practical to learn by yourself without an instructor ... though i teach everything to my practice partner so it helps me understand the concepts well and simplify them. so that we both have fun while practicing ... my main motivation for taking up wing chun was to rebuild a tattered relationship over time that was accomplished and soon i fell in love with wing chun and everything it entails and now i cant get enough of it. i've got sil lim tao and chum kiu down and i am wondering whether we should move on to the wooden dummy next or whether we should do some other form. I am also considering moving to china for a year or two to learn wing chun if i dont find a good instructor here soon.
 

yak sao

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Let us know where you're located....someone may be able to steer you to a teacher.
 
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well i am located in pakistan , the trend here as far as martial arts is concerned is more on the MMA side of things which i positively dislike. I recently had the pleasure of meeting a chinese man who recognised somehow that i had been practicing wing chun though he didnt know much else about the subject he had the courtesy to point me to a school in china where i would be taught well ... someone on martial talk by the name of bully also reccomended another school based in china which is actually a neighbouring country but that is the long term plan for which i have to save up and then plan and sadly im stuck here for atleast six month and i hate stagnation.
 
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other than that my efforts at finding a good wc instructior here locally have been futile.
EDIT:what i would really like to know from some of the practitioners whether it is feasible to jump to the mook after completing chum kiu concepts.
 

tenzen

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Teaching something you don't know is a bad idea all around. You can not learn wing chun from the internet no matter how much you think you know. There are suttle details and intricacies that you will miss completely. You should stop what you are doing right now and wait to find a qualified instructor. All you are doing now is forming bad habits that your sifu will have to work extremely hard to help you break. Your enthusiasm for the art is a good thing but wait to find an instructor and definately don't teach someone something you learned from the internet.
 

mook jong man

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Your kidding yourself mate , your going to have about as much of a foundation as that of a house of cards.
You cannot learn without a qualified "hands on instructor".
Don't worry about Chum Kiu , and don't even think about the dummy .

In fact don't even try to practice the Sil Lum Tao form , you are just going to make it harder for yourself when you do eventually learn properly , because your going to have more bad habits than a dogs got fleas.

My suggestion to you until your situation changes is to try and practice your stance the best you can and maybe do some chain punching , thats about it .
That way you might be able to limit the damage you are doing by not being under direct expert supervision.
 
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Just trying to help.

http://www.pakhunggarkungfu.page.tl/

Also some details I found.
The last update to this website was February 2010 but
zahir hussain sarwari teaching and promoting hung gar wing chun kung fu.
alabdar road
balochistan

Again dont know how old this information is, but worth checking out.

http://www.martialdirect.com/directory/international/pakistan/shahbaz.php


i've called and talked to both places one is about 800 km from where i live and the other is shut down :S



...i dont mind criticism but constructive criticism is appreciated .... as far as learning is concerned i actually have a friend who is learning from someone in england look at the stuff i do in detail and he can somewhat tell what mistakes i make and then i try to change those.

I find sil lim tao in itself simple enough ... also chum kiu i have been slowly pracxticing and elarning to make sure i dont miss any details ... i'm gonna upload a sill lim tao and chum kiu video of mine here. and you guys are welcome to comment. if you like
 
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Teaching something you don't know is a bad idea all around. You can not learn wing chun from the internet no matter how much you think you know. There are suttle details and intricacies that you will miss completely. You should stop what you are doing right now and wait to find a qualified instructor. All you are doing now is forming bad habits that your sifu will have to work extremely hard to help you break. Your enthusiasm for the art is a good thing but wait to find an instructor and definately don't teach someone something you learned from the internet.

i totally get your thought process and where you're coming from but its quite a rigorous process of analysis that i put the form through before i learn and then try to teach is ... videos forums and wing chun sites are my main source of information.
 

mook jong man

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i've called and talked to both places one is about 800 km from where i live and the other is shut down :S



...i dont mind criticism but constructive criticism is appreciated .... as far as learning is concerned i actually have a friend who is learning from someone in england look at the stuff i do in detail and he can somewhat tell what mistakes i make and then i try to change those.

I find sil lim tao in itself simple enough ... also chum kiu i have been slowly pracxticing and elarning to make sure i dont miss any details ... i'm gonna upload a sill lim tao and chum kiu video of mine here. and you guys are welcome to comment. if you like

That's your first mistake right there mate , they are not simple , get that out of your head right now .

I've been at this gig for a few decades and I'm still perfecting my forms.
You might be mimicking the movements but you have no idea of the mental process and muscular action that is required.
For instance I could stand right in front of you and show you an application , one way would be wrong and the other way would be right.

To you they would both look the same it wouldn't be until you felt it that you would be able to detect a difference , that is the minute level of subtle muscle control that we are talking about here.
It cannot be seen only felt.

I don't mean to be harsh , but people come on here regularly saying there learning Wing Chun online and it's really starting to get on my ****.
If it keeps going this way all of us flesh and blood instructors will be out of a job , and there will just be 'virtual' online instructors.
Next we'll have people learning Wing Chun on the bloody Nintendo Wii.
 

zepedawingchun

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i totally get your thought process and where you're coming from but its quite a rigorous process of analysis that i put the form through before i learn and then try to teach is ... videos forums and wing chun sites are my main source of information.

Here we go again, this is just unbelieveable. And no you don't get our thought process, otherwise, you would not attempt to train or practice on your own. And just because it's on video or the internet doesn't make it correct (from this lineage to that) or useful.

Haris Lamboo Faisal, there are pages and pages of replies and threads talking about the good and bad of learning on your own. Mostly bad. Yes, you may perform a rigorous analysis on forms and hand positions and such, but it doesn't mean a thing. Because you don't know for sure if what you're doing is right or wrong, or in between. You wouldn't go watch a brain surgeon perform surgery, and then the next week try it on your own, would you? Well, what you are doing is akin to doing just that. This system is a very intricate and has complex sets of hand positions, principles, theories, and concepts. And can't be done just any old way. But once learned, it is very simple. Without a qualified sifu to GUIDE you, you and your partner are just blowing smoke up each others ***, wasting your time. Do it right or don't do it at all because it's not helping you one bit without guidance.

Now, I'm not going to say anything more in this thread. Everyone here (long time members) knows how I feel about this topic.
 
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That's your first mistake right there mate , they are not simple , get that out of your head right now .

I've been at this gig for a few decades and I'm still perfecting my forms.
You might be mimicking the movements but you have no idea of the mental process and muscular action that is required.
For instance I could stand right in front of you and show you an application , one way would be wrong and the other way would be right.

To you they would both look the same it wouldn't be until you felt it that you would be able to detect a difference , that is the minute level of subtle muscle control that we are talking about here.
It cannot be seen only felt.

I don't mean to be harsh , but people come on here regularly saying there learning Wing Chun online and it's really starting to get on my ****.
If it keeps going this way all of us flesh and blood instructors will be out of a job , and there will just be 'virtual' online instructors.
Next we'll have people learning Wing Chun on the bloody Nintendo Wii.

Okay first of all i live in a place where people dont know squat about wing chun though it originated in the country above us geographically...I am not an instructor in any way nor do i claim to be ... i am merely learning through the means i have available to me currently as i am passionate about wing chun ... your point about how i could be building bad habits that will take a qualified instructor lots of hard work to fix has been duly noted and i am thankful for that. I DONOT THINK THAT LEARNING ONLINE IS A VERY GOOD WAY OF LEARNING , that we are in agreement with. The thing is i would gladly learn from an instructor in real life was such a method so readily available to me as it is to you. But the lack of one really leaves me with no choice but to theorise as best i can and then learn the concepts as best i can.

EDIT: I am also intent on travelling 3560 km to the nearest certified wing chun school and learning WC there but in the meanwhile...
 

tenzen

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Even if you are shown a few things from some guy who learns in england he is not an instructor. Now at a lot of wc schools you will spend a lot of time learning from senior students buut they are guided by the instructor as they are learning to pass on the system themselves. Wait until you find a qualified instructor and train with him or her in person and no other way. Not books not videos but real physical instruction.
 

zepedawingchun

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. . . . . But the lack of one really leaves me with no choice but to theorise as best i can and then learn the concepts as best i can....

Yes, you do have a choice, wait until you find someone qualified to teach you. Don't theorise, cause you'll most likely do it wrong. There are a million things in this life we can have and a million things we can't. Just because we want it doesn't mean we should get. Especially by any means possible. If you really want it that bad, you'll find a way to get it the right way. THAT will make it so much more cherished and appreciated.

The problem with our society now a days, is if we want something, we think we are entitled to it, right now, no matter what. And in this instance, right now, no matter what is not good for you! ! !

. . . . EDIT: I am also intent on travelling 3560 km to the nearest certified wing chun school and learning WC there but in the meanwhile...

Then travel the 3,560 km to get honest to goodness proper Wing Chun training. The meantime can wait because it's only bad for you.
 

chain punch

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Boys give this guy a break. He is passionate and wants to learn. Stop with all this elitist talk about the complexity of wing chun, analogies brain surgery seem rather tenuous at best. I do not think he wants to learn online. He wants guidance not preaching. Help not criticism. Instead of telling him what he should not do, this forum should be a place of nurturing.

I agree with most of you that wing chun is hard and challenging and real progress and learning only occurs with quality partners and instructors.

Why don't we recommend him some punching and footwork videos and set him a target of 100,000 punches with each arm in a 3 month period? Forget the forms. I am going to put my neck on the block and say do you really need them to be good ay wing chun. I say no. What are the basics that he needs to learn so that when he does get a teacher he won't feel too daft.

So how about quality punching with balance and basic footwork?

Paul
 

profesormental

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Greetings.

It might be fun to help the guy out collectively. Interesting experiment if you ask me.

It is hard to judge before seeing the guy in action. If he has good kinesthetic-visual connection he could learn a lot from us + videos + etc.

Immediate feedback from a qualified teacher is best. Not so immediate feedback from a bunch of high level peoples in the forums should be good enough until the time comes when he could get a qualified teacher for feedback. It could lead to interesting discussions, and it is certainly better to his chances of defending himself successfully. (several of my beginner level students have gotten in many street/self defense altercations, all victorious!! I'm so proud!!).

If not, I can help as much as possibler through this medium if needed. I think it will be fun! Or a disaster! ;) Yet we will know the truth only by experimenting and giving a chance to explore something to see where it leads. The Internets is fun!! Skype and such technologies is fun! Let's see what we can do with it! :D

Your call, Mr. Haris Lamboo Faisal.

Sincerely,

Juan Mercado
 

zepedawingchun

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Greetings.

It might be fun to help the guy out collectively. Interesting experiment if you ask me.

It is hard to judge before seeing the guy in action. If he has good kinesthetic-visual connection he could learn a lot from us + videos + etc.

Immediate feedback from a qualified teacher is best. Not so immediate feedback from a bunch of high level peoples in the forums should be good enough until the time comes when he could get a qualified teacher for feedback. It could lead to interesting discussions, and it is certainly better to his chances of defending himself successfully. (several of my beginner level students have gotten in many street/self defense altercations, all victorious!! I'm so proud!!).

If not, I can help as much as possibler through this medium if needed. I think it will be fun! Or a disaster! ;) Yet we will know the truth only by experimenting and giving a chance to explore something to see where it leads. The Internets is fun!! Skype and such technologies is fun! Let's see what we can do with it! :D

Your call, Mr. Haris Lamboo Faisal.

Sincerely,

Juan Mercado

Bad idea. In my honest opinion, it would do more harm than good. Plus, you're dealing with someone's life without the ability to see and make positive corrections to everything he may do. I for one, would not want to risk it. It may satisfy his desire to learn right now, but in the long run, when he actually finds someone qualified to teach him, he will have all sorts of problems attempting to correct or fix what is wrong with what he has learned. Better not to do anything and wait than to train something that is incorrect and useless.
 
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