Leung Ting?

WingChun Lawyer

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Oh, lord.

You still believe kung fu masters are supposed to be enlightened people who don´t fight for fame and fortune, even though there are the beimo challenges, the Boztepe/William Cheung fiasco, and other examples such as these to contradict you?

Do you really believe Bruce Lee was a better fighter than the Pride fighters of today?

Excuse me, I have a bridge to sell. Interested?
 

yipman_sifu

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WingChun Lawyer said:
Oh, lord.

You still believe kung fu masters are supposed to be enlightened people who don´t fight for fame and fortune, even though there are the beimo challenges, the Boztepe/William Cheung fiasco, and other examples such as these to contradict you?

Do you really believe Bruce Lee was a better fighter than the Pride fighters of today?

Excuse me, I have a bridge to sell. Interested?

Well, I mean that there are still people that does not fight although there is a championship fights. The Boztepe/Cheung challenge occured due to reasons that happpened at that time. I mean that testing your skills can be done by sparring. Not the ring or K1, because I beleive that those contests still is different from real combat. In the Beimo case, people were living in different environments with different mentalities. Wing Chun had to be famed throughout this way. Yipman always hated such Beimo, that's why he was hesitated to teach the Gongsau Wing Chun in the first place. While he if you read his Biography, you will see no boasting skill in any way he described about himself. The herioc events mentioned was only mentioned by witnesses who were his friends in Fatshan.

I hate fighting, and I always try it as the last solution for any situation. Many arrogant people were like you said boast alot about their strength and muscles, but when it comes to real fights, you will see them like chickens, not only they don't know how to fight, but they don't know how to stop being beaten.

Regarding the high level of fighting you were mentioning in those contests. I don't care how ugly my combat way looks, as long as I am overcoming my opponent. Why I should kick in a proffesional way if I can just kick someone in his groans and finish him. STRAIGHT FORWARD.

Never told me. How many time have you spent in training Wing Chun my friend?.
 

Flash25

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JeffJ,

I want to address your original post. I have been involved with Grandmaster Leung Ting's organization since 1994. I've trained in both the EWTO (Germany) and The US, So take my opinion for what it's worth.

The Leung Ting organization is big. Some of Flying Crane's comments about empire building are right on. I have seen some evidence of that. When I was training in Germany there were a lot of students who just kinda fell through the cracks and advanced past what their abilities should have allowed them to do. This is a by-product of any large organization. You especially see this in the military. The larger the force the less trained that it is.

That being said, the art itself is top notch. It is, in my opinion, the closest of all the branches to what Wing Chun is supposed to be. I have not seen better concepts and applications of sensitivity and technique anywhere else. I have known people who have come from other branches of the WC family to study WT, but I know of none of the reverse.

The people who really get it are near untouchable. I don't say this as some wide-eyed fan boy. I have a deep respect for what other arts, WC or not, can do. There are many ways to fight effectively and WT is near the top. The most difficult part is finding a good instructor. If you were in a place like Germany, this wouldn't be hard. Unfortunately this is not the case in the good old U.S. of A. There are a lot of good instructors here, but we just don't have the density that Europe does.

To sum it all up, you get a mixed bag with this organization. This is mostly due to its size. The system itself is excellent with a lot of top notch instructors and students. You also get some pieces of crap who spread blight throughout and end up leaving people with a bad taste for the org. and its practitioners.

Edit:

If you have any specific questions, let me know. Who is it that you were going to study with? I'd like to know if it is someone I may have crossed paths with.


Cordially,

Ben
 

yipman_sifu

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Flash25 said:
JeffJ,

I want to address your original post. I have been involved with Grandmaster Leung Ting's organization since 1994. I've trained in both the EWTO (Germany) and The US, So take my opinion for what it's worth.

The Leung Ting organization is big. Some of Flying Crane's comments about empire building are right on. I have seen some evidence of that. When I was training in Germany there were a lot of students who just kinda fell through the cracks and advanced past what their abilities should have allowed them to do. This is a by-product of any large organization. You especially see this in the military. The larger the force the less trained that it is.

That being said, the art itself is top notch. It is, in my opinion, the closest of all the branches to what Wing Chun is supposed to be. I have not seen better concepts and applications of sensitivity and technique anywhere else. I have known people who have come from other branches of the WC family to study WT, but I know of none of the reverse.

The people who really get it are near untouchable. I don't say this as some wide-eyed fan boy. I have a deep respect for what other arts, WC or not, can do. There are many ways to fight effectively and WT is near the top. The most difficult part is finding a good instructor. If you were in a place like Germany, this wouldn't be hard. Unfortunately this is not the case in the good old U.S. of A. There are a lot of good instructors here, but we just don't have the density that Europe does.

To sum it all up, you get a mixed bag with this organization. This is mostly due to its size. The system itself is excellent with a lot of top notch instructors and students. You also get some pieces of crap who spread blight throughout and end up leaving people with a bad taste for the org. and its practitioners.

Edit:

If you have any specific questions, let me know. Who is it that you were going to study with? I'd like to know if it is someone I may have crossed paths with.


Cordially,

Ben

What do you think of Sifu Thomas Mannes of Wing Tsun. I think that he is one of the best and I personally was in a seminar he gave. His punches and coordination is beyond imagination, some people say that his skill and experience is far above Boztepe's experience. What do you think Flash25?.
 

Kensai

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WingChun Lawyer said:
Oh, lord.

You still believe kung fu masters are supposed to be enlightened people who don´t fight for fame and fortune, even though there are the beimo challenges, the Boztepe/William Cheung fiasco, and other examples such as these to contradict you?

Do you really believe Bruce Lee was a better fighter than the Pride fighters of today?

Excuse me, I have a bridge to sell. Interested?

What a ridiculous post, how can you know whether he would have been or not? This kind of reply simply backs up the comment I made about you on another thread.
 

WingChun Lawyer

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Kensai said:
What a ridiculous post, how can you know whether he would have been or not? This kind of reply simply backs up the comment I made about you on another thread.

Hm, let´s see.

Bruce was much lighter and smaller than those guys.

Bruce´s grappling experience could not be compared to those guys. AFAIK he only had a bit of judo practice with Gene Lebell - and he got his *** handed to him by old Lebell (not that that is embarassing, Gene is a god of judo, but still).

Pride fighters are professionals who live to fight, coached by professionals, with access to videos and real life experience with pretty much any style of unarmed combat they care to research. Bruce was mostly a teacher who trained on his own.

Pride fighters can kick ***, as documented by hundreds of hours of video. There is no video of Bruce in an actual sparring match, championship match, or in a real fight (feel free to correct me on this).

Yes, it could be that Bruce was actually the messiah of martial arts, who could mop the floor with Wanderlei and Shogun while picking his teeth with Minotauro.

But frankly, I am willing to bet my car against a dime he was not quite in that level.
 

Kensai

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WingChun Lawyer said:
Hm, let´s see.

Bruce was much lighter and smaller than those guys.

Bruce´s grappling experience could not be compared to those guys. AFAIK he only had a bit of judo practice with Gene Lebell - and he got his *** handed to him by old Lebell (not that that is embarassing, Gene is a god of judo, but still).

Pride fighters are professionals who live to fight, coached by professionals, with access to videos and real life experience with pretty much any style of unarmed combat they care to research. Bruce was mostly a teacher who trained on his own.

Pride fighters can kick ***, as documented by hundreds of hours of video. There is no video of Bruce in an actual sparring match, championship match, or in a real fight (feel free to correct me on this).

Yes, it could be that Bruce was actually the messiah of martial arts, who could mop the floor with Wanderlei and Shogun while picking his teeth with Minotauro.

But frankly, I am willing to bet my car against a dime he was not quite in that level.

It's easy to bad mouth the dead, and as we'll never know, looks like your car is safe.
 

WingChun Lawyer

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Oh lord. I can´t believe you still worship old Bruce. Let the poor man rest in peace!

I am certainly not badmouthing Bruce. I am sure he was tha man back in the day, and he could probably kick both our asses combined. But you just can´t begin to compare a small man with outdated training with Wanderlei.

(incidentally, and considering he was a sensible man, I am quite sure he would slap you in the head and say "of course they would kill me, look at the size of those guys!" if you asked him if he could beat them).
 

Kensai

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WingChun Lawyer said:
Oh lord. I can´t believe you still worship old Bruce. Let the poor man rest in peace!

I am certainly not badmouthing Bruce. I am sure he was tha man back in the day, and he could probably kick both our asses combined. But you just can´t begin to compare a small man with outdated training with Wanderlei.

(incidentally, and considering he was a sensible man, I am quite sure he would slap you in the head and say "of course they would kill me, look at the size of those guys!" if you asked him if he could beat them).

I don't worship anyone let alone Bruce Lee. Just thought it a strange analogy.
 

Flash25

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yipman_sifu said:
What do you think of Sifu Thomas Mannes of Wing Tsun. I think that he is one of the best and I personally was in a seminar he gave. His punches and coordination is beyond imagination, some people say that his skill and experience is far above Boztepe's experience. What do you think Flash25?.
When I first started training in Germany I, and the others that I trained with, revered Sifu Mannes, Sifu Ringeisen and the other old timers. Those guys were the original students of Si-fu Kernspecht and are amazing fighters. As far as Sifu Boztepe goes, at that time there was no one among Si-fu Kernspecht's students who could beat him. It has been several years now that he has been out of the organization and away from any personal training with those more skilled than he. It is possible that Sifu Mannes has surpassed him in that time.

If you want to see some WT masters at work, follow this link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6yCVL31XEY&search=wing%20chun%20tsun%20kung%20fu

Cordially,

Ben
 

yipman_sifu

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Flash25 said:
When I first started training in Germany I, and the others that I trained with, revered Sifu Mannes, Sifu Ringeisen and the other old timers. Those guys were the original students of Si-fu Kernspecht and are amazing fighters. As far as Sifu Boztepe goes, at that time there was no one among Si-fu Kernspecht's students who could beat him. It has been several years now that he has been out of the organization and away from any personal training with those more skilled than he. It is possible that Sifu Mannes has surpassed him in that time.

If you want to see some WT masters at work, follow this link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6yCVL31XEY&search=wing%20chun%20tsun%20kung%20fu

Cordially,

Ben

Thank you very much.
 

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