Elbow strikes in Leung Ting system.

mook jong man

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Would someone mind telling me how many types of elbow strikes are in the Leung Ting system and briefly how they are executed please.
 

geezer

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Would someone mind telling me how many types of elbow strikes are in the Leung Ting system and briefly how they are executed please.

What? Briefly descr... Heck no! It's way too much work to put WC/WT techniques into words (although you've done a pretty good job on several occasions, Mook). Imagine even trying to give a definitive description of something as simple as tan sau applications! Besides, I'll bet the techniques are at least 90% the same, except for names or translations. I mean Si Je was going on and on about using "dai sau" against hook punches and had me totally confused until I watched the technique on a video and immediately recognized it as something we do too... but using a different name.

Actually, one source that is helpful is LT's little paperback on Biu Tze Form available through Wing Lam. He discusses the three Biu Tze elbows-- kup jarn, kwai jarn and pai jarn -- and how he came to modify the version of the form he had originally learned to include a total of 12 elbow strikes using repetitions of these three techniques, kup, gwai and pai. Other names are given to particular applications, such as "ding jarn" or "butting elbow" for a way of applying a pai jarn, and "kowing (bowing or kneeling) elbow" for another elbow application. Of course there are also other elbow strikes too... the vertical downward dropping elbow after the hook punch in Biu Tze, the Lan-sau or bar-arm elbow of Chum Kiu, ...even the withdrawing rear elbow strike you perform as you pull your arm back to chamber in all the forms.

Anyway, when I win the lottery and visit Australia (on my way to Hong Kong) we can discuss it person, and then go out for a beer. Or look me up next time you come to Arizona.
 
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mook jong man

mook jong man

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Thanks for your explaination mate , we have pretty much the same elbow techniques that you have . The main one we used was the circular one where your elbow comes up very close to your ear and then comes crashing down to the opponents sternum .

The only caveat that we had was to not try and reach up to elbow the face , if it was close to the level of your elbow that was fine , but if you had to struggle to get it up to the face then you would be better off attacking the sternum.

What I have come to realise is that once you have a grasp of Bil Gee and your elbows are quite fluid you can concievably rotate them in any direction you want up , down , vertical , horizontal , diagonal , forward and back .

That is the way I practice them , and influenced by the Phillipino stuff I have done , I started practicing elbow strikes directed at the opponents biceps and triceps .

Its a great technique and fits in well with the Wing Chun and are targets for an elbow strike that I hadn't thought of before I did the Phillo stuff . You know yourself if you get struck on the upper arms with the point of the elbow , that arm is pretty much dead and useless for a good while.

With the way the economys going I'll be lucky if I could take you out for a large coke at Mcdonalds mate.
 

Eru Il繙vatar

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I think what Mook is asking is in reference to the WT Biu Tze form. First of all I only completed the SLT form in WT so anybody correct me if I'm wrong but Leung Ting modifyed the form by putting a vertical, diagonal and a horizontal pivoting colapsed elbow in the Biu Tze. Me for example, I do only the vertical elbow in that part of Biu Tze. There are ofcourse many other elbows in WC(I think it covers pretty much all the possible angles of doing them) but you were probably speaking about those, right?
 
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geezer

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Eru Il繳vatar;1148053 said:
...so anybody correct me if I'm wrong but Leung Ting modifyed the form by putting a vertical, diagonal and a horizontal pivoting colapsed elbow in the Biu Tze... but you were probably speaking about those, right?

It sounds to me like you've got it right. I also agree with what Mook said about, "Once you have a grasp of Bil Gee (Biu Tse) and your elbows are quite fluid you can conceivably rotate them in any direction you want..."

Another thing I love about WC/WT elbows is the way they stick and flow around each other. Way back when I more or less knew what I was doing, I fancied myself as "the elbow guy" in our group. I really liked moving in close and doing the sticking elbows stuff... maybe 'cause I'm a bit on the short side? Anyway, people sometimes question the value of chi-sau in sparring, but I found it really seemed to give me an edge with elbows. You are so tightly pressed up against your opponent that you have to flow with their force. Same's true of grappling. The way I look at it, what a good grappler does could be called "Chi-body".
 

Eru Il繙vatar

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Elbow range for me is also the range I feel most comfortable in. I feel like the elbows are the "equaliser" for me when I go up against a bigger stronger guy, becouse in that range strength maters very little and elbows get in very fast, so it's more about whos got more experience in that range.

Anyway, people sometimes question the value of chi-sau in sparring, but I found it really seemed to give me an edge with elbows

I feel the same way. One thing I noticed when sparring people from other martial backgrounds is that when you go all WC on them their first reaction is trying to tense up and hold you hands to immobilise them. When they do that I found Biu Tze elbows invaluable and extremly effective against grabs even when people are a lot stronger becouse leverage is on your side and you can concentrate your weght on a very small spot. And it's pretty quick plus the follow ups are fast and very direct.

Same's true of grappling. The way I look at it, what a good grappler does could be called "Chi-body".

Yea, thats something we did at our WC school-"Chi-body" :) Offcourse a lot of things change on the ground but you can still use your sensitivety. A friend of mine started doing MMA a while back and we fooled arround on the ground a couple of times and I'm pretty happy with how I handled using "Chi-body".
 
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