Let's discuss the Xu Xiaodong vs Ding Hao fight.

Martial D

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The main point is you want to put your hands closer to your opponent's head (this is why you use stiff arms) than his hands from your leg/legs. When he shoots toward your leg/legs, since the distance between his hands to your leg/legs is farther away from the distance between your hands to his head, your hands will be able to reach to his head faster than his hands can reach to your leg/legs (assume you and your opponent have the same speed).

In wrestling, it's called to lead your opponent into the emptiness (or let him to kiss the dirt). When you have body weight on top of his neck, it's not a good place for him to be.


I guess. I can't imagine any scenario where you get your rhino thing around someone's tucked head as they are crashing in for a shot, but you do you man.
 

geezer

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In what fighting?

I believe John is saying that this is how he applies his "Rhino Horn" technique, that is to the chest in training and to the face in actual fights.

Basically it just an entry technique used like a big, wedge-shaped snowplow to break inside a boxer's punching range to grapple and throw. Or at least that's how it looks to me.
 

pdg

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Basically it just an entry technique used like a big, wedge-shaped snowplow to break inside a boxer's punching range to grapple and throw. Or at least that's how it looks to me.

That's how it superficially looks to me as well, and I was hoping that wasn't the case...

I'm an exceptionally bad boxer (in my opinion) yet I'd view that entry as a gift - solid tense arms don't move quickly so blocking of my kicks would be out, and charging with your whole body is slower than a cross (which I can fairly reliably block or divert) so even I could leisurely pivot and counter with an overhand or a knee.
 

marques

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Wing Chun guy is not used to the chaos. Probably not used to hard contact fights in Wing Chun either.

BJJ works (or worked when it was quite unknown 25 years ago) very well on its own because they were used to fight everyone and not only other BJJ guys. The others did not know what to do against BJJ. This WC guy does not know what to do against the MMA guy.

Martial arts would improve if trained in a more free environment. But probably at the cost of more injuries.

MMA is great against opponents but also quite harsh to the body, isnt it? Fighters/athletes are being injured competing or training. How many injured people is Tai Chi producing?

Quite messy post. To summarise, (1) MMA is clearly effective at a cost (hard training, injuries) and more suitable to young people. Ineffective martial arts may not produce good fighters, but healthy people (with overconfidence on their skills sometimes) and suitable to old people. (2) Ineffective martial arts may become better in fighting just with more and better fighting training. Which is better?
 

macher

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Wing Chun guy is not used to the chaos. Probably not used to hard contact fights in Wing Chun either.

BJJ works (or worked when it was quite unknown 25 years ago) very well on its own because they were used to fight everyone and not only other BJJ guys. The others did not know what to do against BJJ. This WC guy does not know what to do against the MMA guy.

Martial arts would improve if trained in a more free environment. But probably at the cost of more injuries.

MMA is great against opponents but also quite harsh to the body, isnt it? Fighters/athletes are being injured competing or training. How many injured people is Tai Chi producing?

Quite messy post. To summarise, (1) MMA is clearly effective at a cost (hard training, injuries) and more suitable to young people. Ineffective martial arts may not produce good fighters, but healthy people (with overconfidence on their skills sometimes) and suitable to old people. (2) Ineffective martial arts may become better in fighting just with more and better fighting training. Which is better?

What about for self defense? Not talking about against another trained MAist.

Most I would say including myself practice MA for self defense.

If a Wing Chun practitioner cant handle himself against a regular Joe then theres something wrong. My view is sparring and incorporating maybe boxing into it. You can spar at 30-50% and youll be ok.
 

drop bear

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What about for self defense? Not talking about against another trained MAist.

Most I would say including myself practice MA for self defense.

If a Wing Chun practitioner cant handle himself against a regular Joe then theres something wrong. My view is sparring and incorporating maybe boxing into it. You can spar at 30-50% and youll be ok.

It depends how you rate the threat of self defence situation.

If it is more dangerous than a MMA fight then it should be MMA plus.

If it is less. Do less.

The issue is self defence people are not consistent with their logic here. And will cherry pick.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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self defence people.
If you

- are interested in sex, you should just tell people that you are interested in sex. You should not tell people that you want to carry on the human race.
- want to learn how to fight, you should just tell people that you want to learn how to fight. You should not tell people that you learn how to defense yourself.
 

macher

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If you

- are interested in sex, you should just tell people that you are interested in sex. You should not tell people that you want to carry on the human race.
- want to learn how to fight, you should just tell people that you want to learn how to fight. You should not tell people that you learn how to defense yourself.

Learning how to defend yourself and learning how to fight is the same thing per se. I already knew how to fight before MA. No I wasnt a pro or amateur fighter. I wasnt a skilled fighter and not even that good.

Even though I knew how to fight before MA what MA offers is how to protect yourself in different situations. Such as suprise attacks as an example etc. Even if you know how to fight knowing techniques and such is very helpful.
 
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jkdgenius

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Is it the martial art and history behind it you enjoy doing or actually wanting to train in most effective fighting methods for practical Street fighting? Or are you looking for both of the above? I think this is the only thing you need to consider, as in my opinion it always comes down to the fighter not the style! I know more boxers that would be more effective in a street fight than most martial artists that I know (and I know a lot), but on the other hand, a select few martial artists I know are incredibly talented fighters and I'd not like to meet them in a street fighting scenario!! Haha... So I think the video is a simple example of one guy not being prepared for such a fight and the other being prepared and comfortable due to his training and personal ability. Just my opinion
 

macher

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Is it the martial art and history behind it you enjoy doing or actually wanting to train in most effective fighting methods for practical Street fighting? Or are you looking for both of the above? I think this is the only thing you need to consider, as in my opinion it always comes down to the fighter not the style! I know more boxers that would be more effective in a street fight than most martial artists that I know (and I know a lot), but on the other hand, a select few martial artists I know are incredibly talented fighters and I'd not like to meet them in a street fighting scenario!! Haha... So I think the video is a simple example of one guy not being prepared for such a fight and the other being prepared and comfortable due to his training and personal ability. Just my opinion


I agree. I tested a co worker of mine and pushed him hard and he froze.
 

jkdgenius

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I agree. I tested a co worker of mine and pushed him hard and he froze.
It's crazy how when tested a lot of training goes right out the window! I remember sparring a friend who'd been training in steel wire mantis Kung Fu for 5 years. He was amazingly well conditioned and forearms were, well, like steel but when we sparred I took a few hits but managed to lock him up quite quickly, at which point he froze
 

marques

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What about for self defense? Not talking about against another trained MAist.

Most I would say including myself practice MA for self defense.

If a Wing Chun practitioner cant handle himself against a regular Joe then theres something wrong. My view is sparring and incorporating maybe boxing into it. You can spar at 30-50% and youll be ok.
Many martial arts training are not preparing people for the average Joe neither for a trained opponent. Many martial arts are preparing people to overcome someone less skilled in the same style (if there is training with resistance or competition).

Sometimes training makes people worse defending themselves because they start confusing training conditions (false expectations) and reality (unpredictable, unsafe...), or freezing between the instinct and learned skill.

I have seen high ranked people or champions on their style giving any or very little challenge on sparring (fortunately have found the opposite as well). Just because they were predictable and I was deceptive. Having said that, I have seen some becoming gradually, and quickly, more effective after some light free sparring as well. I believe effectiveness is more about training method than styles.

Light/slow sparring is still relatively safe and teaches what nothing else can do. If the objective is self defence, the scenario can be more creative than one to one, face to face, in a ring. One can start from a bad position, needing to protect someone else... The thing is advancing from cooperation to some degree of opposition and see/explore what works better.
 

TMA17

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Hahah Master Wong is hilarious. I agree with him on this.
 

geezer

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Yeah?? He's explaining his opinion on the fight...

Ha! I had just a couple of minutes to try to catch up on this thread and I thought that was the same clip used in the OP so I didn't watch it again. Should have. --Sorry. :oops:

Actually, I agree with you. This was one of Master Wong's better videos!
 
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