LEOs and Armed Citizens: The LE Perspective

[KenpoTex]

This is one of two threads that I'm starting to discuss the topic of the interaction between armed citizens and law-enforcement officers. The other thread is located here: LINK

This is a topic that has come up in several threads recently and I think a general discussion of the topic (isolated from any specific incident) will prove to be interesting.
For the purposes of this thread, "armed citizen" means a citizen who has a valid concealed-carry permit and is armed at the time of the contact.

The topic of this thread is how LEO's handle interactions with armed citizens in the following general situations:

1. When the citizen is the "target" of the contact. This could be a traffic stop, a "stop" because the citizen meets the description of someone you as an officer is looking for, whatever. Basically any situation where they have done something or you suspect that they might have done something. It should be noted that I'm only asking about situations in which whatever the citizen did (traffic violation, etc.) does not make it illegal for them to be in possession of a firearm.

2. When the citizen is not the "target" of the contact but is involved in some capacity. Possible reasons for involvement could be that he/she is a witness to a crime, the victim of a crime, the person who initially called the police to file a complain, etc. Basically, they are involved but not accused/suspected of any wrongdoing.

Discuss your procedures for handling an armed citizen in these types of situations. Do you have any department policies that specifically address this issue. Any policies that specifically state what you can/can't do, etc.
What are your thoughts independent of your department's policies?

 

[sgtmac_46]

Potentially armed suspects are treated as high-risk until disarmed and the situation is resolved......it doesn't really matter whether they have a CCW or not, as it's always possible to have a CCW and still be engaged in a criminal enterprise.

At the same time, my perspective, and many LEO's perspectives, are that law abiding citizens have the right to keep and bear arms, and within the law, to carry in public.

With that carrying in public, however, comes a duty and responsibility, and that is to understand and keep in mind the duty of the police, which is to keep the peace and uphold the law........and sometimes that may involve some inconvenience, or some actions that folks may take personal offense at, such as being detained, or temporarily disarmed.

The reality, though, is that the folks who do take offense are doing so because the believe the police should have a built in 'Good Guy' detector that says 'Oh, he's armed, but he's one of the good guys'........but no such detector exists.

I try to put myself in the position of the citizen, because I was a citizen before I became a police officer, and will be one after........but knowing what I know, I would not be offended at temporary detention and disarmament in a situation that I recognize as chaotic.



To specifically address your questions.....

1. When the citizen is the "target" of the contact. This could be a traffic stop, a "stop" because the citizen meets the description of someone you as an officer is looking for, whatever. Basically any situation where they have done something or you suspect that they might have done something. It should be noted that I'm only asking about situations in which whatever the citizen did (traffic violation, etc.) does not make it illegal for them to be in possession of a firearm.

That is very situational.......if you're talking merely a traffic violation, that is different than matching the description of someone wanted, say, for Domestic Assault, or a violent criminal act.

If I deal with a CCW for purely a traffic violation, I would tell him to leave the gun where it is, remain in the vehicle until I verify his information, so long as there is no indication of anything out of sorts. The fact that he is providing me with his CCW and tells me he has a gun tells me that he's probably not looking to ambush me.

If I know, however, he has a CCW and i'm looking for him for some kind of violent act, i'm going to treat him as armed and a potential threat.

2. When the citizen is not the "target" of the contact but is involved in some capacity. Possible reasons for involvement could be that he/she is a witness to a crime, the victim of a crime, the person who initially called the police to file a complain, etc. Basically, they are involved but not accused/suspected of any wrongdoing.

Again, the same way I would with the above described traffic stop.