Leopard Kung Fu

JowGaWolf

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Sup Gi Sau less as a guard against strikes and more like a closed guard in BJJ, b
I don't think of it as a guard against striking. I think of it as a set up for grappling. If you stand in guard with your arms crossed like that then you'll get pressed, pinned, punched and trapped. The crossing of the arms is the end of the technique and not the beginning. For it to be used as a guard against striking then the crossing of the arm would need to be at the beginning. In the forms that I know the arms come together with force instead of being held like a sheild.

When I think of crossing my arms, I go through a cost benefit analysis of doing so. The only time I could think of a benefit is when my arms crossed at the end of an application where the dirty work occurs as the arms are trying to cross.
 

JowGaWolf

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Sup Gi is a "Stopping Bridge" method (jit kiu), also known as the "Golden Scissor". It has five directions (high, middle, low, left, right). Like Marvin's videos show it can block things, but the real goal is bridging and controlling (hence the scissor motif). If you saw the Knife defense thread, it's exactly what the Navy SEAL instructor shows for stopping and controlling a knife attack (he calls it X guard the concept is the same).

Also, for breaking elbows.

It is used to flow into Dragon internal training like Dragon's Eyes (Loong Ngaan), which is part of the breathing and spiritual training in the Iron Wire. There's even a component of training the intensity of the eyes, something many people don't even think about training.

And now, back to Leopard. Right after lunch.
Yep back to leopard
 

JowGaWolf

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I took a look at some of these and zi was sold on some of them. Like Qiu Sau Sparring Techniques. I'm not sure that's worth putting in a form and it seems that some of those Sparring Techniques would naturally develop even if you don't train a martial arts. We could probably find babies doing those same Techniques. While MMA has some kung fu techniques in use. I would use caution of "Trying to see kung fu in MMA"

Some of the things I saw where conditioning components that were put in forms and weren't intended for use in sparring as a fighting technique. While static pictures are nice. They leave a lot of context out of it.
 

JowGaWolf

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Sometimes you cross your arms is because you are crossing your opponent's arms.

I didn't see your arms cross. What I saw you do would be crossing. If it were crossing then you would look like your student.
 
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CMyers0323

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I took a look at some of these and zi was sold on some of them. Like Qiu Sau Sparring Techniques. I'm not sure that's worth putting in a form and it seems that some of those Sparring Techniques would naturally develop even if you don't train a martial arts. We could probably find babies doing those same Techniques. While MMA has some kung fu techniques in use. I would use caution of "Trying to see kung fu in MMA"

Some of the things I saw where conditioning components that were put in forms and weren't intended for use in sparring as a fighting technique. While static pictures are nice. They leave a lot of context out of it.
Is this list leopard techniques? The ones you quoted I mean
 

Oily Dragon

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Is this list leopard techniques? The ones you quoted I mean
No, we've diverged a bit and got onto the infinite discussions regarding Golden Scissor techniques.

Although, Marvin still gave me/us a great lead when he brought up Matt Blazon Yee, who is not only a master of Hung Ga Five Animal kung fu (one of the best I've ever seen), but also a skilled standup and ground wrestler.

Five Element Fist (including Water strikes) followed by the Leopard section from 1:15 onward. If you watch the whole thing the sequence is Dragon, Snake, Tiger, Leopard, Crane. The Lam family version of this (the Sup Ying Kuen) is a little different but references the same 5 animal/5 element combinations.

You won't find a better version of the Five Animal Fist online IMHO. It's abbreviated for time (the full set goes both left and right for each section so it's about twice as long as this, though most people can't do it this fast without years of practice).

 
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Oily Dragon

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How about that first kick by the way. That's not how it's initially taught in the form, Matt's taking some creative license there but nobody wants to be on the receiving end of that bad boy.

First time I saw that my face hurt. Let that be a lesson to the people who say southern styles don't kick...
 
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CMyers0323

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No, we've diverged a bit and got onto the infinite discussions regarding Golden Scissor techniques.

Although, Marvin still gave me
/us a great lead when he brought up Matt Blazon Yee, who is not only a master of Hung Ga Five Animal kung fu (one of the best I've ever seen), but also a skilled standup and ground wrestler.

Five Element Fist (including Water strikes) followed by the Leopard section from 1:15 onward.

You won't find a better version of the Five Animal Fist online IMHO.

Oh well that's fine. I honestly wasn't sure but it was a good convo. I think leopard is also one of the few arts I don't hear many variations on. Like snake for example there's yellow, white, python, etc. I think leopard there's just plain leopard and white leopard. Not sure if you've heard more or If that matters to much.

I know it's more external but does leopard have any internal techniques? Speaking of snake it has a few I'm familiar with the peircing palm and the blood sealing palm.
 
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CMyers0323

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No, we've diverged a bit and got onto the infinite discussions regarding Golden Scissor techniques.

Although, Marvin still gave me/us a great lead when he brought up Matt Blazon Yee, who is not only a master of Hung Ga Five Animal kung fu (one of the best I've ever seen), but also a skilled standup and ground wrestler.

Five Element Fist (including Water strikes) followed by the Leopard section from 1:15 onward. If you watch the whole thing the sequence is Dragon, Snake, Tiger, Leopard, Crane. The Lam family version of this (the Sup Ying Kuen) is a little different but references the same 5 animal/5 element combinations.

You won't find a better version of the Five Animal Fist online IMHO. It's abbreviated for time (the full set goes both left and right for each section so it's about twice as long as this, though most people can't do it this fast without years of practice).

Didn't see the video when I commented but that's cool. It definitely shows mastery when you can abbreviate a form just for performance. I'll have to watch it so I can see where the snake and other Animals start and such. I assume by water techniques your referring to the snake section?
 

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No, we've diverged a bit and got onto the infinite discussions regarding Golden Scissor techniques.

Although, Marvin still gave me/us a great lead when he brought up Matt Blazon Yee, who is not only a master of Hung Ga Five Animal kung fu (one of the best I've ever seen), but also a skilled standup and ground wrestler.

Five Element Fist (including Water strikes) followed by the Leopard section from 1:15 onward. If you watch the whole thing the sequence is Dragon, Snake, Tiger, Leopard, Crane. The Lam family version of this (the Sup Ying Kuen) is a little different but references the same 5 animal/5 element combinations.

You won't find a better version of the Five Animal Fist online IMHO. It's abbreviated for time (the full set goes both left and right for each section so it's about twice as long as this, though most people can't do it this fast without years of practice).

Now ima hard critic of poor execution but this guy is REALLY moving! Thanks for this video because its one of a very few that I consider top notch. Just flat out excellence.
 

Oily Dragon

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Oh well that's fine. I honestly wasn't sure but it was a good convo. I think leopard is also one of the few arts I don't hear many variations on. Like snake for example there's yellow, white, python, etc. I think leopard there's just plain leopard and white leopard. Not sure if you've heard more or If that matters to much.

I know it's more external but does leopard have any internal techniques? Speaking of snake it has a few I'm familiar with the peircing palm and the blood sealing palm.
It really depends. In the case of the 5 major southern families, you have to keep in mind that these are traditions each family combined and passed on, in some cases very organized and others so so.

The Wong Fei Hung lineage is probably the most organized of all, which is why it contains is much stuff found in even outside arts like Wing Chun or Choy Li Fut. This is because of all the people who learned and taught, some were more scholarly.

Someone like Leung Kwan would have known several animal based Shaolin styles but probably had his own private way of teaching. Whereas the WFH school was the work of a boxing and medical scholar, basically a huge kung fu nerd, who was able to compile a huge amount of training and organize it into a formal curriculum (which lasts to this day through the two major lineages).

But behind all that you have older village styles that are far less documented and formal but still have their own generational lineages, Hasayfu being one.

Here's a Lam family Hung Ga Kuen master Wing Lam, showing Snake Fist techniques that are NOT part of Hung Ga, but are related to it from the lower Canton region. You can see this is very different from the Snake section in the Five Animal Fist.

Important takeaway I think is this is stuff that kind of lies in between the more famous and documented kung fu styles. It's almost experimental in nature and you can almost imagine some village master centuries ago practicing this just to stay limber. Figuring out applications? Good luck.

This is NOT Hung Ga, but some of it is similar to it.

 
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Oily Dragon

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Now ima hard critic of poor execution but this guy is REALLY moving! Thanks for this video because its one of a very few that I consider top notch. Just flat out excellence.
Matt has one of the best kung fu YouTube channels online. He also doesn't shy away from ground fighting technique and MMA applications, he's got a looong history with the competition circuits inside and outside kung fu.

A great example of why learning outside one style is important. As the folk tales say all the best Chinese masters were openly welcome to scrapping with anyone. Unfortunately kung fu today has a blight of people who stay in their little boxes (and give kung fu a bad name to the unenlightened).

 
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CMyers0323

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It really depends. In the case of the 5 major southern families, you have to keep in mind that these are traditions each family combined and passed on, in some cases very organized and others so so.

The Wong Fei Hung lineage is probably the most organized of all, which is why it contains is much stuff found in even outside arts like Wing Chun or Choy Li Fut. This is because of all the people who learned and taught, some were more scholarly.

Someone like Leung Kwan would have known several animal based Shaolin styles but probably had his own private way of teaching. Whereas the WFH school was the work of a boxing and medical scholar, basically a huge kung fu nerd, who was able to compile a huge amount of training and organize it into a formal curriculum (which lasts to this day through the two major lineages).

But behind all that you have older village styles that are far less documented and formal but still have their own generational lineages, Hasayfu being one.

Here's a Lam family Hung Ga Kuen master Wing Lam, showing Snake Fist techniques that are NOT part of Hung Ga, but are related to it from the lower Canton region. You can see this is very different from the Snake section in the Five Animal Fist.

Important takeaway I think is this is stuff that kind of lies in between the more famous and documented kung fu styles. It's almost experimental in nature and you can almost imagine some village master centuries ago practicing this just to stay limber. Figuring out applications? Good luck.

This is NOT Hung Ga, but some of it is similar to it.

I think this is one of many reasons why I love the arts. There's so much depth and variation to it.
It makes sense with traditions passed on and some probably branching out they would create their own "styles" I still would say it feels leopard is like mentioned earlier really small compared to the others. I have fairly detailed Tiger, Snake, and Mantis books.

That's really impressive he was able to do that. I'd honestly say I'd aspire to be that way. I love the traditional arts so learning all this stuff is amazing. I'm sure it wasn't easy putting that into a curriculum I mean I'm no expert but there's times where I'd try to figure out where a technique or form should be placed and its always something that can be changed.

Oh yeah I can imagine the village styles are only known to them and if anything happens to them it's lost forever. Unfortunate but it's the way things are I guess. I don't think I'd want to imagine the amount of knowledge lost to time haha.


Thanks ill check this out! Yeah applications are tough to find. When I began learning Bagua and a little Tai Chi I had no idea how many applications could be in just one move. So now I'm always wondering what could be missing.
 

JowGaWolf

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How about that first kick by the way. That's not how it's initially taught in the form, Matt's taking some creative license there but nobody wants to be on the receiving end of that bad boy.

First time I saw that my face hurt. Let that be a lesson to the people who say southern styles don't kick...
I always tell people that I don't train high kicks but that doesn't mean zi can't kick high. If a person is doing their warm up training in conditioning then they should have the ability to kick high even if they don't specifically train a high kick.

Leg lifts and crescent kicks increase front kick flexibility.
 
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CMyers0323

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I don't know of any but I'll ask next time I get a chance. I know about 2% of this stuff compared to my teachers.
Awesome thanks I'm sure the more stuff we can get here the better. It's highly appreciated
Matt has one of the best kung fu YouTube channels online. He also doesn't shy away from ground fighting technique and MMA applications, he's got a looong history with the competition circuits inside and outside kung fu.

A great example of why learning outside one style is important. As the folk tales say all the best Chinese masters were openly welcome to scrapping with anyone. Unfortunately kung fu today has a blight of people who stay in their little boxes (and give kung fu a bad name to the unenlightened).

That makes alot of sense. I agree there it's definitely not the same but I think if the training was a bit different it could really let the arts live up to what they used to be.

These messages on mobile tend to get disorganized for me for some reason. I think I had asked but am not sure about the wood squeezing. Is there any where they talk about that? I've been wanting to expand my understanding of the elements in my Xing Yi

I remember reading a book (I forgot the name unfortunately) they go into deep topics about the elements and their relation to life itself and higher aspects I'm still hoping to find that book one day haha
 
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CMyers0323

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I always tell people that I don't train high kicks but that doesn't mean zi can't kick high. If a person is doing their warm up training in conditioning then they should have the ability to kick high even if they don't specifically train a high kick.

Leg lifts and crescent kicks increase front kick flexibility.
100% agree it just gives you that extra range of motion to work with. I'd hate to do a kick to the hip or ribs and be at my max. I don't do the high kicks either but have landed one on a higher rank once it was cool but those can be dangerous to pull off. I love all things kicks since alot of styles so heavily focus on hands i always felt the need to balance it out. I have like 5 books strictly on kicking I ended up getting lol
 

JowGaWolf

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Unfortunately kung fu today has a blight of people who stay in their little boxes (and give kung fu a bad name to the unenlightened).
I hope this started to permanently change after mma started beating up on kung fu masters
 

Wing Woo Gar

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I hope this started to permanently change after mma started beating up on kung fu masters
I hesitate to call them masters if they go down in one shot without even moving. Seen that about a dozen times already, I always wonder what they were thinking. if they know they cant fight, why do it?
 
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