Leopard Kung Fu

OP
C

CMyers0323

Blue Belt
Joined
Feb 3, 2022
Messages
263
Reaction score
54
Remember Snake is the internal animal, even if Water is its element, that doesn't make Water techniques internal. The rising wave/seven star strikes are definitely external, long range strikes.

You can kind of see Gordon Liu doing some element strikes in this clip, and Water strikes around 16 seconds in.

View attachment 30198

Actually the whole intro sequence is straight from the Tiger and Crane Paired Fist and at around 0:35, you can see the Character 10 Splitting Gold Fist.

View attachment 30197


I don't see any videos.

The Tiger/Leopard, Bone/Strength difference is kind of subtle but the basic idea is that Tiger techniques rely more on the whole body (which you can see here), whereas Leopard is more of an upper body striking format (fast jabs and upper body movement).
View attachment 30195

Wood techniques are squeezing techniques, so if you look at that picture of Wood strikes again, there is a squeeze between the arms as well as a punch.

View attachment 30196

Yes. Character 10 Splitting Gold starts with inverted "X Guard" (10 in Chinese is "+"), and then the split apart.
I see okay that's cool. I did figure snake was internal it makes sense and every time I read about it it's been referenced and said it's significant to Qi. Yeah I'd definitely want to learn them.


Oh wow now that's cool. I'll be rewatching that then. I'm all for learning any Elemental strike since the common ones are the basic fist strikes in Xing Yi.


That's odd it didn't post there should be a link here
back fist

Okay see that makes more sense I always was taught tiger Is a huge animal and just powers through things and the leopard being smaller is different.


Oh wow I thought it was odd for the placement of the strikes but postures aren't always the best to fully understand the movements. So for this squeezing technique do you use it to capture the opponents arm and hold them in place? I can't say I've heard of squeezing techniques before.


Ah okay sounds like the splitting gold or well the X part is similar to a karate high block but with both hands. If so I'm familiar with it as a longfist form I know does that but even if it does something like splitting gold the arms are alot further out for that one.
 
OP
C

CMyers0323

Blue Belt
Joined
Feb 3, 2022
Messages
263
Reaction score
54
Where did you learn that Wood techniques are squeezing? id love to learn more about them from other perspectives. Wood was always taught to me as well crushing mainly. but even then probabaly also considered short.
 

Oily Dragon

Senior Master
Joined
May 2, 2020
Messages
3,257
Reaction score
1,651
That is the intro to the first of the Chang Kuen form sets. Splitting Gold.

The X guard is a very Shaolin concept.

1698340836571.png

1698340881632.png
 

Oily Dragon

Senior Master
Joined
May 2, 2020
Messages
3,257
Reaction score
1,651
That's odd it didn't post there should be a link here
back fist
Now I can see the video. What was your question?back fist
Okay see that makes more sense I always was taught tiger Is a huge animal and just powers through things and the leopard being smaller is different.
Basically, yes. Leopards are smaller but can drag prey up into trees. Tigers are bigger, can also climb trees, but rarely need to, because no other animal is going to try to steal their dinner.
Oh wow I thought it was odd for the placement of the strikes but postures aren't always the best to fully understand the movements. So for this squeezing technique do you use it to capture the opponents arm and hold them in place? I can't say I've heard of squeezing techniques before.
There are a large number of squeezing techniques using the arms.

One major (Tiger Crane) version here. In the Shaolin way, the right and left hand represent the Sun and Moon.

Like you said it's hard to realize the squeezing until you're told what Lam Sai Wing here is doing is squeezing the Sun and Moon together, to crush your enemy:

1698341240488.png


Which many comic book kung fu lovers know from this:

1698341344129.jpeg

Ah okay sounds like the splitting gold or well the X part is similar to a karate high block but with both hands. If so I'm familiar with it as a longfist form I know does that but even if it does something like splitting gold the arms are alot further out for that one.
There are different ranges for Splitting Gold. In beginner stages, you might be splitting them far apart, as with a horse stance.

1698341679550.png


But at advanced stages, in the Yee Gi Kim Yeurng Ma. Which Grandmaster Lam below is not doing in this illustration (or it's the drawer's fault for not capturing it well), but it's easy to picture it if you are a Wing Chun student. This is from the Shaolin Iron Wire form, the most advanced Hung Ga Kuen form. As with all advanced Shaolin training, don't try this without proper instruction, or you can injure your internal organs.

Remember, these are right to left, and there is a (low) cross guard in between these that isn't shown in the books.

1698341507520.png
 
Last edited:
OP
C

CMyers0323

Blue Belt
Joined
Feb 3, 2022
Messages
263
Reaction score
54
Now I can see the video. What was your question?back fist

Basically, yes. Leopards are smaller but can drag prey up into trees. Tigers are bigger, can also climb trees, but rarely need to, because no other animal is going to try to steal their dinner.

There are a large number of squeezing techniques using the arms.

One major (Tiger Crane) version here. In the Shaolin way, the right and left hand represent the Sun and Moon.

Like you said it's hard to realize the squeezing until you're told what Lam Sai Wing here is doing is squeezing the Sun and Moon together, to crush your enemy:

View attachment 30206

Which many comic book kung fu lovers know from this:

View attachment 30207

There are different ranges for Splitting Gold. In beginner stages, you might be splitting them far apart, as with a horse stance.

View attachment 30209

But at advanced stages, in the Yee Gi Kim Yeurng Ma. Which Grandmaster Lam below is not doing in this illustration (or it's the drawer's fault for not capturing it well), but it's easy to picture it if you are a Wing Chun student. This is from the Shaolin Iron Wire form, the most advanced Hung Ga Kuen form. As with all advanced Shaolin training, don't try this without proper instruction, or you can injure your internal organs.

Remember, these are right to left, and there is a (low) cross guard in between these that isn't shown in the books.

View attachment 30208
I wasnt able to find a better video but I assume splitting gold is a short range version of what's seen at around 20 seconds?




I was just wondering if the 2nd or 3rd technique was the Water back fist/ wave fist you mentioned?
The first one is one I've used but I guess it's not exclusive to water just more so used.


Yeah that makes alot of sense. It seems both have similar aspects which is probably just cause of their similarities.


Really wow that's cool. I can't say I've heard of squeezing techniques unless if I'm over thinking it. Is there any where I could learn more about them? Or generally about aspects of the elements like you mentioned Wood being squeezing metal splitting, etc? That's something I've been wanting to do for ages.

I would assume the sun and moon technique is just sort of squeezing the forearms together while the opponents hand/arm is between your arms?


I see so probably like long fist styles then closer as you develop more power. Oh wow yeah that looks tough. I can see why it fits Metal then with all the hard aspects, iron wire mentions, etc just seems straight up metal haha
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
14,169
Reaction score
6,093
The X guard is a very Shaolin concept.

View attachment 30204
View attachment 30205
About 15 years ago I tried to use the x guard and at the time the theory was that it made it possible for me to catch incoming punches. Unfortunately I never got around to test it

My theory is that it takes away the guess work of which hand to use to grab. We have this in Jow Ga but it's function is often glossed over with questionable applications
 
Last edited:

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
14,169
Reaction score
6,093
squeezing the forearms together while the opponents hand/arm is between your arms?
I think it's for breaking and hyperextending the attacker's punch. I tried to grab using my forearms and it was very inefficient. Sweaty arms made it pointless.

Breaking the punching arm and collapsing the punching arm became more realistic. My kung fu brother told me that he was jumped in the parking lot and he used that movement to break the punching arm of the attacker. He wasn't the best kung fu student, so if his story was is true then it makes the technique very practical. which is what you want in a technique.
 

Wing Woo Gar

Senior Master
Joined
Sep 30, 2021
Messages
3,946
Reaction score
2,222
Location
Northern California
Now I can see the video. What was your question?back fist

Basically, yes. Leopards are smaller but can drag prey up into trees. Tigers are bigger, can also climb trees, but rarely need to, because no other animal is going to try to steal their dinner.

There are a large number of squeezing techniques using the arms.

One major (Tiger Crane) version here. In the Shaolin way, the right and left hand represent the Sun and Moon.

Like you said it's hard to realize the squeezing until you're told what Lam Sai Wing here is doing is squeezing the Sun and Moon together, to crush your enemy:

View attachment 30206

Which many comic book kung fu lovers know from this:

View attachment 30207

There are different ranges for Splitting Gold. In beginner stages, you might be splitting them far apart, as with a horse stance.

View attachment 30209

But at advanced stages, in the Yee Gi Kim Yeurng Ma. Which Grandmaster Lam below is not doing in this illustration (or it's the drawer's fault for not capturing it well), but it's easy to picture it if you are a Wing Chun student. This is from the Shaolin Iron Wire form, the most advanced Hung Ga Kuen form. As with all advanced Shaolin training, don't try this without proper instruction, or you can injure your internal organs.

Remember, these are right to left, and there is a (low) cross guard in between these that isn't shown in the books.

View attachment 30208
Low cross guard is what Im talking about.
 

Wing Woo Gar

Senior Master
Joined
Sep 30, 2021
Messages
3,946
Reaction score
2,222
Location
Northern California
About 15 years ago I tried to use the x guard and at the time the theory was that it made it possible for me to catch incoming punches. Unfortunately I never got around to test it

My theory is that it takes away the guess work of which hand to use to grab. We have this in Jow Ga but it's function is often glossed over with questionable applications
The downward cross block for front kicks can be used to good effect to catch and turn low kicks. I have used it with force to stuff a DLT as well. It requires that you squeeze both arms together not just lay one on top of the other.
 

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
14,284
Reaction score
4,655
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
The downward cross block for front kicks can be used to good effect to catch and turn low kicks. I have used it with force to stuff a DLT as well. It requires that you squeeze both arms together not just lay one on top of the other.
If you use both arms to block your opponent's groin kick, you don't have the 3rd arm to block your opponent's face punch.

The groin kick, face punch is my favor combo. Even if my opponent drops 1 arm to block my groin kick, since I have 2 arms, I can use 1st arm to jam his upper arm and punch his face with my 2nd arm.

A groin kick followed with 3 head punches is a very powerful combination. The groin kick can be fake 90% of the time. Even the 1st head punch can be fake. The real attack are the 2nd and the 3rd head punches.

All my guys train groin kick, face punch combo as the general entering strategy.

 
Last edited:

Wing Woo Gar

Senior Master
Joined
Sep 30, 2021
Messages
3,946
Reaction score
2,222
Location
Northern California
I think it's for breaking and hyperextending the attacker's punch. I tried to grab using my forearms and it was very inefficient. Sweaty arms made it pointless.

Breaking the punching arm and collapsing the punching arm became more realistic. My kung fu brother told me that he was jumped in the parking lot and he used that movement to break the punching arm of the attacker. He wasn't the best kung fu student, so if his story was is true then it makes the technique very practical. which is what you want in a technique.
Two things, Baji Quan style uses whole body to turn this into arm breaker. Second, I commonly use hooking overhead block to stick to opponents straight punches and either move with or pull off intended trajectory. Three ways that I know how to use this. Im sure there are many more Im unaware of. Just variations on a theme using this arm position. They all look and feel quite different in application.
 

Wing Woo Gar

Senior Master
Joined
Sep 30, 2021
Messages
3,946
Reaction score
2,222
Location
Northern California
If you use both arms to block your opponent's groin kick, you don't have the 3rd arm to block your opponent's face punch.

The groin kick, face punch is my favor combo. Even if my opponent drops 1 arm to block my groin kick, since I have 2 arms, I can use 1st arm to jam his upper arm and punch his face with my 2nd arm.

A groin kick followed with 3 head punches is a very powerful combination. The groin kick can be fake 90% of the time. Even the 1st head punch can be a fake. The real attack are the 2nd and the 3rd head punches.
Yes, this is true, there is a counter for everything. I like to use two punches and one kick all at the same time, not too many people can block all three, but I will know a lot about you if I do that just once and watch your reaction. Its why I believe in fitness, balance, posture, coordination, accuracy, and economy of motion over just teaching technique. If a person has those attributes first, the technique part is really the simplest thing to teach. Most people show the technique before the student is physically capable of executing it well. I dont teach techniques to people who cant stand on one leg, or control their breath, or make and keep a proper fist. Often, I see people moving through some multi part technique without any body awareness or coordination of control. I know that some folks will disagree with my methods. My reasons for this are that I dont teach a sport competition format, most people arent fighting regularly, I think that teaching people balance, posture, coordination is something that is far more useful each day than some list of techniques. I see what I teach as the real foundation of any skilled martial artist. I dont teach forms(kata) or applications (techniques) until a student is consistently training with all the basics at a minimum level of fitness. Sparring prematurely without these basics can lead to bad habits and injuries that just delay training even more. I should say, I did not create the system, I espouse it for the results I have seen. My students can take what I teach and apply it to any other athletic endeavor with good results. Many of my students do train in other martial arts concurrently, and some have competed successfully. All claim that the training I offer has changed the way they move and increased their quality of life in ways that go beyond fighting. For the students that are ardent martial artists, I give them any and all I can offer in their quest to achieve a high level of skill. Its why we have the basic class and an invite only class that new students are initially unaware of.
 

Wing Woo Gar

Senior Master
Joined
Sep 30, 2021
Messages
3,946
Reaction score
2,222
Location
Northern California
About 15 years ago I tried to use the x guard and at the time the theory was that it made it possible for me to catch incoming punches. Unfortunately I never got around to test it

My theory is that it takes away the guess work of which hand to use to grab. We have this in Jow Ga but it's function is often glossed over with questionable applications
Lots of ways for it to go wrong for sure.
 

Wing Woo Gar

Senior Master
Joined
Sep 30, 2021
Messages
3,946
Reaction score
2,222
Location
Northern California
I wasnt able to find a better video but I assume splitting gold is a short range version of what's seen at around 20 seconds?




I was just wondering if the 2nd or 3rd technique was the Water back fist/ wave fist you mentioned?
The first one is one I've used but I guess it's not exclusive to water just more so used.


Yeah that makes alot of sense. It seems both have similar aspects which is probably just cause of their similarities.


Really wow that's cool. I can't say I've heard of squeezing techniques unless if I'm over thinking it. Is there any where I could learn more about them? Or generally about aspects of the elements like you mentioned Wood being squeezing metal splitting, etc? That's something I've been wanting to do for ages.

I would assume the sun and moon technique is just sort of squeezing the forearms together while the opponents hand/arm is between your arms?


I see so probably like long fist styles then closer as you develop more power. Oh wow yeah that looks tough. I can see why it fits Metal then with all the hard aspects, iron wire mentions, etc just seems straight up metal haha
Ugh! these videos存o many problems with this. See my last post. I explain why. Will anyone else like to weigh in on whats wrong with the way this form is expressed here? @Oily Dragon? @Kung Fu Wang?
 

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
14,284
Reaction score
4,655
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
I like to use two punches and one kick all at the same time, not too many people can block all three,
This is also the long fist basic 2 punches and 1 kick combo.

- Right kick and left punch at the same time (right kick coordinate with left punch).
- When right kick drops, right punch land (right punch coordinate with right foot landing).

It's amazing that not everybody can throw right kick and left punch at the same time. I have tested this on beginners. May be only 1 out of 4 can do this.

IMO, the "groin kick and face punch" at the same time is very advance MA skill.
 

Kung Fu Wang

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
14,284
Reaction score
4,655
Location
Austin, Tx/Shell Beach, Ca
Ugh! these videos存o many problems with this. See my last post. I explain why. Will anyone else like to weigh in on whats wrong with the way this form is expressed here? @Oily Dragon? @Kung Fu Wang?
Just for the sake of discussion. When he does

- the reverse punch at 0.26, his right fist, right shoulder and left shoulder should make a perfect straight line. He didn't extend his punch far enough.



- horse stance left punch at 0.41, his right foot should point south or southeast. It should not point to the southwest.

Many people do this kind of outward horse stance, and I don't know the reason behind it.

If you face north with outward horse stance, when your

- left leg borrow the counter force from the ground, your body will move to northwest.
- right leg borrow the counter force from the ground, your body will move to northeast.

Since your body can't move toward NW and NE at the same time, this kind of outward horse stance make no combat sense at all.

 
Last edited:
OP
C

CMyers0323

Blue Belt
Joined
Feb 3, 2022
Messages
263
Reaction score
54
About 15 years ago I tried to use the x guard and at the time the theory was that it made it possible for me to catch incoming punches. Unfortunately I never got around to test it

My theory is that it takes away the guess work of which hand to use to grab. We have this in Jow Ga but it's function is often glossed over with questionable applications
Can't say I've fully tested either but Wing Chun has the Kang Sao which uses similar concepts and it can work but again not fully tested either.
 
OP
C

CMyers0323

Blue Belt
Joined
Feb 3, 2022
Messages
263
Reaction score
54
I think it's for breaking and hyperextending the attacker's punch. I tried to grab using my forearms and it was very inefficient. Sweaty arms made it pointless.

Breaking the punching arm and collapsing the punching arm became more realistic. My kung fu brother told me that he was jumped in the parking lot and he used that movement to break the punching arm of the attacker. He wasn't the best kung fu student, so if his story was is true then it makes the technique very practical. which is what you want in a technique.
That would make sense. I'd have to work with it more to see how it could work. I wouldn't have guessed it's a wood tactic but I guess it can make sense.

That's awesome it's cool to hear stories like that cause we all know sparring still is different than actual fights.
 
OP
C

CMyers0323

Blue Belt
Joined
Feb 3, 2022
Messages
263
Reaction score
54
If you use both arms to block your opponent's groin kick, you don't have the 3rd arm to block your opponent's face punch.

The groin kick, face punch is my favor combo. Even if my opponent drops 1 arm to block my groin kick, since I have 2 arms, I can use 1st arm to jam his upper arm and punch his face with my 2nd arm.

A groin kick followed with 3 head punches is a very powerful combination. The groin kick can be fake 90% of the time. Even the 1st head punch can be fake. The real attack are the 2nd and the 3rd head punches.

All my guys train groin kick, face punch combo as the general entering strategy.

I 100% agree. While I'm sure it isn't full proof either I started leaning more into Leg blocks. I also do Shin training/iron body but those once trained help keep you from leaning in much. There not perfect but I guess it's better than just taking a leg kick
 

Latest Discussions

Top