Learning from DVD's

[Danny T]

Sure.

But definitely not as a beginner.

Or even a intermediate level student.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Here's the other thing, and I will say it although most probably would not...

Most students in traditional in-person training quit very quickly. Few bother to keep training long enough to learn anything useful.

Video training? Even worse. People will sign up, pay, and stop doing it. A couple lessons. They're like the yoga and tae-bo and jazzercise videos you see in thrift stores for a dollar.

Because people are lazy and as soon as they learn they have to put in work, they don't want to do it anymore.

Sorry, my opinion.

Are there exceptions? Sure. Very few.

 

[Buka]

DVD and book learning are great for experienced, talented Martial Artists.
But for neophytes, useless, dangerous even.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Here's the other thing, and I will say it although most probably would not...

Most students in traditional in-person training quit very quickly. Few bother to keep training long enough to learn anything useful.

Video training? Even worse. People will sign up, pay, and stop doing it. A couple lessons. They're like the yoga and tae-bo and jazzercise videos you see in thrift stores for a dollar.

Because people are lazy and as soon as they learn they have to put in work, they don't want to do it anymore.

Sorry, my opinion.

Are there exceptions? Sure. Very few.

I think this speaks of the difficulty of training alone. In a class the student can feed off each others drive. If the student feels lazy then they can look at the other students and use that to energize. But when you are training alone, there is no one else around to keep you energized to train.

I don't know how many of us would consider DVD training sessions fun. I'm pretty sure a TaeBo class is really fun compared to me at home in the basement doing TaeBo. Training as a group =Tons of fun. Training alone not so much.

 

[wingchun100]

As a supplement to real training? They can be okay, provided the video is not too different from what you do in class.

In fact, given the lineage politics in Wing Chun, you would not want to study any videos OTHER than ones that do the forms according to your lineage. God help you if you show up at your Ip Ching school doing things the way the Leung Sheung lineage does.

I hate lineage politics. I think we can all learn from each other.

 

[wingerjim]

How well do you think you could learn from DVD's in terms of forms/moves etc? I know nothing can replace sparring with a real person, especially chi sao.

DOWNLOAD: Adam Chan - Core Self Defense Set - Pragmatic Martial Arts

I think videos, magazine articles and books are good enhancement tools but they cannot replace a good teacher. We all much have feedback. How many times have you thought, I got this down, only to have your teacher correct something that should have been obvious but it is not?

 

[Flying Crane]

I think this speaks of the difficulty of training alone. In a class the student can feed off each others drive. If the student feels lazy then they can look at the other students and use that to energize. But when you are training alone, there is no one else around to keep you energized to train.

I don't know how many of us would consider DVD training sessions fun. I'm pretty sure a TaeBo class is really fun compared to me at home in the basement doing TaeBo. Training as a group =Tons of fun. Training alone not so much.

And beyond simply being energized or motivated to train, time in an actual class helps you figure out how to systematically practice this stuff when you are working by yourself (which must be done in addition to being in class). That is something that is difficult for many people. If there is no experience with this, I imagine working entirely off video and without a teacher or a class experience, could lead to a lot of disjointed and inefficient training sessions.

 

[wckf92]

How well do you think you could learn from DVD's in terms of forms/moves etc? I know nothing can replace sparring with a real person, especially chi sao.

DOWNLOAD: Adam Chan - Core Self Defense Set - Pragmatic Martial Arts

Just fyi...this topic was discussed before so use the search function and read previous threads...might be some tidbits in there.

 

[JowGaWolf]

And beyond simply being energized or motivated to train, time in an actual class helps you figure out how to systematically practice this stuff when you are working by yourself (which must be done in addition to being in class). That is something that is difficult for many people. If there is no experience with this, I imagine working entirely off video and without a teacher or a class experience, could lead to a lot of disjointed and inefficient training sessions.

I took Jow Ga in my 20's. then about 3 years later I left the school (life got in the way). I continued to train the stuff that I knew. Many years went by before I started Jow Ga again. The one thing I didn't do, was to buy the only DVD of Jow Ga that is available from guy name Ron Wheeler. That's how much it meant for me to be in a class learning because of my skills and lack of ability to use Jow Ga back then. Now it's a little different, I understand so much more and can see more, understand more, and learn more on my own than I could back then. My current Sifu was really big on not giving us the answers of "How to" when it came teaching us. He would only gives us an answer after we spent time trying to understand the technique.

It wasn't until I reached current level that I feel I can use a DVD. Not every DVD is correct in their explanations and there's no way to tell if it is, if the person is a beginner.

This is one of the most confusing techniques within the Jow Ga System. He spends 8 minutes talking about 2 pieces of a punching technique giving insight on a possible application. He could probably talk a full hour just on those 2 pieces alone before getting into the actual application. Also he's talking about the concept of the punch by showing a possible application. It's not actually a HOW TO discussion on using the technique.

vs 45 seconds here: Even if you could hear the sound, it's only 45 seconds

Same technique here. at 16 seconds

Some doing what you stated "..working entirely off video and without a teacher or class experience, could lead to a lot of disjointed and inefficient training sessions." is spot on. If you are a beginner and picked the last video to train from then you would be in really bad shape. These videos illustrating the issues and challenges that are present when learning through a DVD. Not being able to ask questions about what is being shown is probably the biggest issue. Because some of you probably question what you see but you can't ask a question and if you could, you may not get a response if your question is similar to this. "But what if he punches me in the face when I try to do the technique?"

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

It wasn't until I reached current level that I feel I can use a DVD.

Some DVD can be real helpful. Every time that I watched this clip, it reminds me that a good front kick should be a "downward curve" and not an "upward curve".

 

[Flying Crane]

Some DVD can be real helpful. Every time that I watched this clip, it reminds me that a good front kick should be a "downward curve" and not an "upward curve".

Nobody says that videos are completely useless and worthless. Experienced people can learn things from video, get new ideas and perspectives on things in which they are already well grounded.

What is discouraged is a new person trying to learn a system via video alone or as the primary mode of instruction.

I would also discourage an experienced person from learning a new system in that way.

As always, context matters and very few things are absolute. For some people, video can be a good tool in the right context. For other people, video would be nothing but trouble.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

For other people, video would be nothing but trouble.

Agree with you 100% there!

Here is a good example. If someone who has not trained "head lock", the following picture and video may lead him into the wrong direction.

Something are wrong in this picture.

1. His left elbow joint should point straight down to the ground.
2. His right arm should control his opponent's left arm.
3. He should not allow his opponent to have both hands free and control his waist.
4. He should not let his opponent to have solid rooting.
5. He should bend his opponent's spine "side way".

If any requirement of 1 - 5 are not met, he should release his "head lock" and don't put himself in that dangerous position.

This is how a bad "head lock" video will put a new student in trouble (from 1.14 - 1.18).

 

[JowGaWolf]

Some DVD can be real helpful. Every time that I watched this clip, it reminds me that a good front kick should be a "downward curve" and not an "upward curve".

I look at that video and I still don't know what you are talking about in terms of "downward curve" My front kicks work like a piston. Knee comes up and legs go out, heel strikes target, legs comes back in, knee comes down. I'm not sure I understand the context of what is done in the video, but I know from experience that it's easier for me to catch a front kick when the leg doesn't come back as shown in the video.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Agree with you 100% there!

Here is a good example. If someone who has not trained "head lock", the following picture and video may lead him into the wrong direction.

Something are wrong in this picture.

1. His left elbow joint should point straight down to the ground.
2. His right arm should control his opponent's left arm.
3. He should not allow his opponent to have both hands free and control his waist.
4. He should not let his opponent to have solid rooting.
5. He should bend his opponent's spine "side way".

If any requirement of 1 - 5 are not met, he should release his "head lock" and don't put himself in that dangerous position.

This is how a bad "head lock" video will put a new student in trouble (from 1.14 - 1.18).

The head lock is a good example of a technique that is often done through imitation and is often done incorrectly making it less effective.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I look at that video and I still don't know what you are talking about in terms of "downward curve" My front kicks work like a piston. Knee comes up and legs go out, heel strikes target, legs comes back in, knee comes down. I'm not sure I understand the context of what is done in the video, but I know from experience that it's easier for me to catch a front kick when the leg doesn't come back as shown in the video.

The

- toes push kick is a downward curve. It's used to kick on the chest (or belly) and then add body weight behind.
- knee kick is a straight like.
- groin kick (or chin kick) is an upward curve.

That "toes push kick" can be used to

- close the distance, and
- set up a punch.

If you pull the kicking leg back, you will miss the chance to "step in".

- Every kick can be a step.
- Every step can be a kick.

When your opponent catches your kicking leg, you can

- hammer fist on top of his head.
- head lock on him.
- extend your kicking leg between his legs, control both his shoulders, and start the stand up grappling game.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The

- toes push kick is a downward curve. It's used to kick on the chest (or belly) and then add body weight behind.
- knee kick is a straight like.
- groin kick (or chin kick) is an upward curve.

That "toes push kick" can be used to

- close the distance, and
- set up a punch.

If you pull the kicking leg back, you will miss the chance to "step in".

- Every kick can be a step.
- Every step can be a kick.

When your opponent catches your kicking leg, you can

- hammer fist on top of his head.
- head lock on him.
- extend your kicking leg between his legs, control both his shoulders, and start the stand up grappling game.

It seems chancy to start the stand-up grappling game on one leg - or are you getting that leg down first, somehow?

 

[Bill Mattocks]

The

- toes push kick is a downward curve. It's used to kick on the chest (or belly) and then add body weight behind.
- knee kick is a straight like.
- groin kick (or chin kick) is an upward curve.

That "toes push kick" can be used to

- close the distance, and
- set up a punch.

If you pull the kicking leg back, you will miss the chance to "step in".

- Every kick can be a step.
- Every step can be a kick.

When your opponent catches your kicking leg, you can

- hammer fist on top of his head.
- head lock on him.
- extend your kicking leg between his legs, control both his shoulders, and start the stand up grappling game.

Toe rip kick is not as useful when everybody is wearing shoes. I am familiar with the kick, it's awesome, but not so much when wearing shoes.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Toe rip kick is not as useful when everybody is wearing shoes. I am familiar with the kick, it's awesome, but not so much when wearing shoes.

This isn't a kick I've trained, Bill. What makes it less useful with shoes on?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

This isn't a kick I've trained, Bill. What makes it less useful with shoes on?

Imagine trying to do a finger jab with mittens on. Same issue.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Imagine trying to do a finger jab with mittens on. Same issue.

Another technique I haven't trained. You're not helping, KD.