Kung Fu School Information please?

[Mark Weiser]

Si Gung Xing Yong Scott Winokur with of Midwest Chinese Martial Arts Center out of Kansas City. I just happened to be researching Shaolin Kung Fu schools in Kansas.

He has instructors in Lawerence and one in Topeka. Does anyone have any information about him?

Classes taught are

• Chi Lu Chuan Kung Fu
• Wing Chun
• Tai Chi Chuan
• White Willow
• Chi Lu Chuan Chin Na
• Trapping And Intercepting
• R.A.T.T. Combat Self-Defense System
• Kiddie Kung-Fu
• Shuai Chiao
• San Da

The last two listed above are sparring classes

• Dragon Style Lung Lum Pa
• Shaolin 8-Animal Kung-Fu

School website
http://www.kungfukc.com/frame.html

 

[Gary Crawford]

Are you thinking about joining?

 

[Mark Weiser]

From my studies and historical research American Kenpo is based on Shaolin Kung Fu. This would enhance any Kenpo Studies. Also there is only one Kenpo School and it is about 2 hours away from here. While this school is in town and only 20 minutes(Lawerence KS) away from my house

 

[Gary Crawford]

I agree that it would be a good enhancement to your kenpo

 

[MartialMom]

Hey Guys!

I practice both Kenpo and Kung Fu. I have found that there are several things taught in Kenpo that are either similar or taken directly from Kung Fu. Alot of the locks we use in Kenpo are based in Kung Fu. The close strikes in Tiger are very similar to what is taught in Kenpo.

For me, although we are taught practical application in Kung Fu, Kenpo teaches set defence senarios for various attacks encountered on the street. I love the mix, Kung Fu and Yoga are my Calming Chi and Kenpo is my fierce outlet.

 

[Venomstrike]

As I become more advanced in Kenpo I also wish to study in other martial arts. MartialMom it sounds like you have quite a nice balance in studies.

 

[RHD]

Here's another instructor with an amazing array of blcak belts from all over the place...Black belts in Okinawan, Japanese, Korean, and Chinese styles. He must be tired. Okinawan Karate, Japanese Karate, Korean style, Wing Chun, Tai Chi, Lung Lum Pa (lumpa? ), Chi Lu Chuan, 8 Animal Kung Fu, Shuai Chiao, RATT idunno ...is this list getting suspiciously long?


[*]Dragon Style Lung Lum Pa =nonsensical psuedo Cantonese, probably made up
[*]Shaolin 8-Animal Kung-Fu =??? do some research and find out more about Shaolin 8 animal kung fu...good luck

[*]Chi Lu Chuan Kung Fu =???
[*]Wing Chun =okay we all have at least heard of this
[*]Tai Chi Chuan =same comments as for Wing Chun
[*]White Willow =??? Ask around...it's probably made up
[*]Chi Lu Chuan Chin Na =??? Ask around...it's probably made up
[*]Trapping And Intercepting =This is a style now?
[*]R.A.T.T. Combat Self-Defense System =the name says it all
[*]Kiddie Kung-Fu =fine, nice idea for kids
[*]Shuai Chiao =the instructors bio says he recieved an honorary black belt in Shuai Chiao...what the heck is that?
[*]San Da =free fighting

Folks, lets face it...IT's very easy to make money claiming to teach Chinese martial arts. It's not very easy to make a living teaching the real thing because most people do not want to engage in the hard work/time and energy/kung fu it takes to actually learn them.

(sigh)
Oh well...let the flames begin.
Mike

 

[clfsean]

RHD... lumpa is what the the Oompaloompa's study to help Willy Wonka out... :mp5:

The rest of it...*shakes head in pain... *

 

[Darksoul]

-I have to agree with CLFSean and RHD, it sounds like way too much training for one person. Now if there is more than one instructor at these schools, then I would say give it a shot. Often there is one teacher who teaches a few arts, yet they supplement training with another instructor, who may teach whatever. Check the place out and talk with the instructor(s).


A---)

 

[Imago Simia]

Well this is a really old thread but for what it's worth. I am Sifu Scotts head student at the moment. And I have to say he is a very intellegent and well versed martial artist. All of the things he teaches he is certified to teach. most of it comes from master futong( need to cheak spelling) including CLCKF(8 animals),CLC chin-na, taping and intercepting, Lung lum pa(black dragon), Shuai Chiao. And Sifu has also been accepted as a deciple of Proffessor Husing liu that is where our sun da comes from. He has also traind with Master Randy Lee- wing chun and tai chi. White Willow Sifu Scott developed himself from all of the Knowledge he has obtained over the last 25 or so years of studying CMA.

Thank You respectfully- Imago Simia (Latin for Phantom Monkey)

 

[Matt Stone]

Well this is a really old thread but for what it's worth. I am Sifu Scotts head student at the moment.

Congratulations.

And I have to say he is a very intellegent and well versed martial artist.

Being intelligent and well-versed doesn't necessarily validate one's alleged volume of knowledge.

All of the things he teaches he is certified to teach.

Which is, of course, what he says, because of course a person who is in the process of defrauding others will be perfectly honest and own up to the scam... :idunno: I'm not saying that this is the case with your teacher; I'm saying that believing one's teacher's comments about being "certified" doesn't make it so, nor does it make what he/she teaches legitimate.

most of it comes from master futong( need to cheak spelling) including CLCKF(8 animals),CLC chin-na, taping and intercepting, Lung lum pa(black dragon), Shuai Chiao.

As with each and every other teacher laying claim to a long lineage, the same request is levied here:

Please post teacher trained with, material covered (what style(s)), and duration of time with said teacher. Also, current age, age when training began, and when the individual in question began teaching.

Further, for those of us who've been around the CMA community for more than a few weeks, please explain what the following are, complete with alleged translations from Chinese to English, characters for said alleged Chinese words preferred, as well as where each style is said to have come from (and "the Shaolin Temple" isn't an all-encompassing answer; details are preferred since the former answer is far too vague):

Chi Lu Chuan Kung Fu - What does this mean and what kind of style is it?

Wing Chun - You stated he trained under Randy Lee... Where and from when to when? How long did he study? Under whom is he certified to teach?

Tai Chi Chuan - What style? What does his Taijiquan curriculum consist of?

White Willow - What is this? What kind of style? What is its Chinese name? Why is it listed in English and not Chinese?

Chi Lu Chuan Chin Na - if this is Chin Na from the Chi Lu Chuan style, why does it need to be listed separately? Chin Na is an included portion of every single style of CMA to one degree or another, and is most typically not listed as a separate art (except to draw attention to its training, usually for a marketing purpose, not necessarily a bad thing...)...

Trapping And Intercepting - This is a single skill, again typically included in CMA styles. Why does it require a separate listing, much less a separate class?

R.A.T.T. Combat Self-Defense System - What is this?

Shuai Chiao - Like Chin Na above, Shuai Chiao is typically an inclusive training method within a particular art. Why is it listed separately and taught separately?

San Da - So he teaches a full contact rules set. What does the class consist of?

And Sifu has also been accepted as a deciple of Proffessor Husing liu that is where our sun da comes from.

If "Professor" Husing Liu was well known, then citing his name might mean something. Who is he, where is he from, what style does he teach, where does he teach it?

He has also traind with Master Randy Lee- wing chun and tai chi.

I wasn't aware that Mr. Lee taught Taijiquan. Please refer to the questions above.

White Willow Sifu Scott developed himself from all of the Knowledge he has obtained over the last 25 or so years of studying CMA.

So "White Willow" is his own creation... Why then does he continue to teach the other classes?

Not trying to bust your chops... Someone asked a question about a school, you provided some answers, but more questions are still pending. Nor am I trying to imply that your teacher is a fraud; far from it. These questions are the same questions I ask anyone whose training background is unfamiliar to me.

 

[Imago Simia]

Professor Yuzeng Liu

Director, Qin'na Fighting and Teaching Section at
China's National Police Academy in Henan

31st Generation Shaolin Disciple (De Yu)

8th Generation Wudang Disciple

Prof. Liu is recognized internationally as an expert in Chinese martial arts, including principles, theories, history, and methods from both the Wudang and the Shaolin traditions. In 1993, he was listed in China's National Martial Arts Hall of Fame. He is proficient at practical techniques and a variety of teaching methods. His special areas of expertise are in fighting techniques such as free-style sparring, chin'na, and push hands. His writing on various martial arts subjects has been published extensively in China and he has been invited to contribute to several anthologies, including nationally-used textbooks. He has directed several studies on the health benefits of taiji and qigong practice for different age groups. Recently, some of his work has begun to be translated and published in English.

He holds degrees in Physical Education from both the Zhengzhou College of Education and Henan Normal University. He is certified as a National First Class Judge in China for forms and san shou (fighting) events. He began studying Shaolin boxing and weapons, Yuefei style with his grandfather Liu Wenzhou when he was six years old. As he grew older, he continued his practice and went on to study with Zhou Tiecheng (Iron Leg and Swift Hand Zhou) and with Wudang boxing master, Wang Xixiao. From them he learned Xingyi, Bagua, and Wudang boxing. In 1980, Yuzeng Liu was accepted for training in orthodox Shaolin gongfu with Chief Monk Suxi at the Shaolin Temple and given the temple name De Yu. While there, he studied Shaolin dian xue (pressure points), Lohan style, Shaolin qigong, and Shaolin martial arts medicine.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
My spelling really sucks, expecally of chinese words sorry, but thats about all the time I have to post tonight.

Imago Simia

 

[Databit]

As a former student I have a lot of information on this instructor.

· Chi Lu Chuan Kung Fu - This is 8 Animal Kung Fu (Leopard, Crane, Eagle, Monkey, Tiger, Dragon, Snake, mantis)

· Wing Chun – He offers this as a separate course.

· Tai Chi Chuan – He seldom teaches this, but has his other instructors from another branch come and teach it for him. At least he did while I was there.

· White Willow – He created this form himself. It is a combination, Wing Chung, Tai Chi, and 8 Animal.

· Chi Lu Chuan Chin Na – This is the same as the first, however the focus is more on pressures points. I’m not to sure on this one. He tried them on me a lot and very seldom got a respons, but I did fake it for people coming to see what the place was about. (Hey he raised rates every 6 months, the more people that came in the less he would raise it.)

· Trapping And Intercepting – This is specific parts of Wing Chun. He has the class once a week.

· R.A.T.T. Combat Self-Defense System – He list this but I never saw him teach it. If you go to the site I don’t think it is even listed in a time slot.

· Kiddie Kung-Fu – He never taught this, but had others teach it for him.

· Shuai Chiao - He list this but I never saw him teach it.

· San Da - He list this but I never saw him teach it.

Ok, now understand that I believe everyone has their good days and bad days. I also believe that each person has their own opinion on how things are to be done. This is not a insult to the instructor, but a statement of my experiences at his school.

• From what I can tell you train to compete in tournaments. While he says that they are not required, or at least that is what he told me, I did witness him threaten to kicking anyone above a white sash out of the school if they did not sign up for his tournament. However, I never saw him kick anyone out, though I did see people walk out because of this.
• He teaches iron body training and in doing so dropped several of the women to their knees.
• I did witness the head instructor act in a unprofessional manner on a regular basis. (nope I am not going into details about this so don’t ask)
• The head instructor has openly admitted to having issues with his peers.
• I witnessed several students have quit stating that they are not paying to put up with the head instructor.
• I witnessed several instructors have been fired, rehired, fired, threatened, and what have you on a weekly basis.
• While he does offer a large sum of weapons you have to pay extra money to learn them, and then he only knows the form and nothing more. (From what I have been able to see.)
• The head instructor stated several times that our students were known as the Kung Fu Dancers buy other schools.

As for the art form itself I would say it is very complex and rewarding. It does build up strength and the ability to defend oneself. If you wish to study this form, I would look into a branch school. The good thing about this guy is that there are no contracts, so you can come and go as you please.

 

[Databit]

Well this is a really old thread but for what it's worth. I am Sifu Scotts head student at the moment.

What do you mean by "Head Student"?

And I have to say he is a very intelligent and well versed martial artist.

I would agree with this statement, however I have to agree with the statement made by his own Sifu. He is not a Sifu. (That is he is a Sifu only in title not in actions.) And Sifu Scott told me that himself.

All of the things he teaches he is certified to teach. most of it comes from master futong( need to cheak spelling) including CLCKF(8 animals),CLC chin-na, taping and intercepting, Lung lum pa(black dragon), Shuai Chiao. And Sifu has also been accepted as a deciple of Proffessor Husing liu that is where our sun da comes from. He has also traind with Master Randy Lee- wing chun and tai chi.

Last I heard, from Sifu Scott himself, Master Lee has little to do with him as does most of his peers. If I am remembering his Sifu Scott's own statements.

White Willow Sifu Scott developed himself from all of the Knowledge he has obtained over the last 25 or so years of studying CMA.

As I remember he boasted that this form was designed to beat all other forms and thus show how superior he is to his peers.

Thank You respectfully- Imago Simia (Latin for Phantom Monkey)

 

[Databit]

Director, Qin'na Fighting and Teaching Section at
China's National Police Academy in Henan

31st Generation Shaolin Disciple (De Yu)

8th Generation Wudang Disciple

Prof. Liu is recognized internationally as an expert in Chinese martial arts, including principles, theories, history, and methods from both the Wudang and the Shaolin traditions. In 1993, he was listed in China's National Martial Arts Hall of Fame. He is proficient at practical techniques and a variety of teaching methods. His special areas of expertise are in fighting techniques such as free-style sparring, chin'na, and push hands. His writing on various martial arts subjects has been published extensively in China and he has been invited to contribute to several anthologies, including nationally-used textbooks. He has directed several studies on the health benefits of taiji and qigong practice for different age groups. Recently, some of his work has begun to be translated and published in English.

He holds degrees in Physical Education from both the Zhengzhou College of Education and Henan Normal University. He is certified as a National First Class Judge in China for forms and san shou (fighting) events. He began studying Shaolin boxing and weapons, Yuefei style with his grandfather Liu Wenzhou when he was six years old. As he grew older, he continued his practice and went on to study with Zhou Tiecheng (Iron Leg and Swift Hand Zhou) and with Wudang boxing master, Wang Xixiao. From them he learned Xingyi, Bagua, and Wudang boxing. In 1980, Yuzeng Liu was accepted for training in orthodox Shaolin gongfu with Chief Monk Suxi at the Shaolin Temple and given the temple name De Yu. While there, he studied Shaolin dian xue (pressure points), Lohan style, Shaolin qigong, and Shaolin martial arts medicine.

Now where did you get this? Directly from Scott himself? Has he shown you any of these degrees? Have you talked to these people?

Look I'm not saying anything bad about the guy, but when it comes to a instructor of a martial art you need one that focused on providing you the best education in his art. My personal opinion is that this Sifu needs to address his personal issues first then return to teaching.

 

[tshadowchaser]

Am I missing something here????
what has Professor Yuzeng Liu got to do with the discussion of Sifu Scotts and his school
are you trying to say they are the same person?? sorry I am confussed

 

[TaiChiTJ]

Boy I am sure glad TShadowChaser admitted being confused because I am confused too!

The Chinese master must live in China.

The very honest comments such as that he really doesn't teach Tai Chi, he lets someone else do it, etc., are indeed referring to Scott's school in Kansas City, not the master in China.

Somebody please correct me if I am wrong.

OK, I just went onto Scott's site and learned some things. Scott studied with Master Randy Li. I attended a seminar given by Master Randy Li at the Tai Chi Legacy a few years ago. Master Li does indeed teach both Wing Chun and Tai Chi at his WingChun USA school in Overland Park KS.

 

[TaiChiTJ]

Is there anywhere on the web where a portion of the eight animal form is shown?

 

[newtothe dark]

I haven't seen it but if others have would love to see the link..

 

[Databit]

From what I am told there are several 8 animal forms. Actually there are more than just 8 forms as well. Based on the family line that you are learning will determine the form itself. I have found several different version of 8 animal, 5 animal, and each of the animal forms individually on Youtube and Google Video.