Kids and Self Defense

[MJS]

Pretty much every art has a kids program. Many times, the same material that is taught to the adults, is also taught to the kids, but on a condensed level.

What are your thoughts on the material that is taught to kids? Is it good to teach the same material as in the adult class, expecting the child to perform moves that may be too difficult at that age, or should things be slightly changed or watered down so to speak to better suit a child?

Mike

 

[Shaolinwind]

Pretty much every art has a kids program. Many times, the same material that is taught to the adults, is also taught to the kids, but on a condensed level.

What are your thoughts on the material that is taught to kids? Is it good to teach the same material as in the adult class, expecting the child to perform moves that may be too difficult at that age, or should things be slightly changed or watered down so to speak to better suit a child?

Mike

The kids test in my school with the adults and they most certainly have a watered down version of kung fu to suit children. In fact, I'm barely able to see kung fu when I see some of these kids. Hey whatever makes the school money, I'm happy with. If these kids are actually learning kung fu, well I'm not the one to judge.

 

[mj-hi-yah]

I don't teach the kids classes, but I do have teenagers in my class, some as young as 14, and I think it is very important to teach responsibly to both teens and children. For younger children the curriculum should absolutely be less lethal! It would concern me greatly to see children learning how to do some of the things we do as adults in Kenpo, as Kenpo is an art comprised of many nasty, potentially deadly techniques. Children do not have proper control or judgment in terms of applying force and could potentially/accidentally hurt their friends and siblings. With children, I think it's important to concentrate on awareness first, and then simple, practical, moves that they can use to help them escape attacks like grabs and holds. Over time the discipline of practicing the art (whatever art) and maturity will improve control - this is true for adults as well, but the mentality of a child is different. Even teenagers do not always have proper judgment in terms of control.

I have a very good friend who as a teen, fooling with his friends, damaged the spleen of a non-trained friend who was razzing him about his karate training. The friend had to have his spleen removed in an emergency operation. My friend has lived with the guilt of this all his life. A 14 year old may not have the maturity or experience to fully understand the capacity to which the things that they are learning can harm another human being. So while the teens in our school learn the full curriculum, I always make a point of emphasizing control and responsibility with friends and in the school yard whether fooling around, or in self defense.

Along with being a martial artist comes responsibility, and I think that needs to be taught to kids along with how to move.

MJ :asian:

 

[Drac]

What are your thoughts on the material that is taught to kids? Is it good to teach the same material as in the adult class,
Mike

Gave a 3 hour class to a group of Explorers from my department..We taught them good basic kicks, strikes and the MOST importantly escapes from wrist grabs..My friend who is a 3rd Dan and I were the Uke's to insure the techniques were done right..It was the same techniques we would show adults..Violence against children is at an alarming rate..Teach whatever system or discipline you favor BUT TEACH THEM...

 

[jdinca]

For six and under students we have a reduced curriculum. In addition, some techniques have been modified to make them easier to do, yet still be effective. There are also some techniques designed just for a small child. An example is the first technique for small children, which is called "Front Grab". The attacker picks up the child from the front. The technique is a snap kick to the groin while doing double slaps to the ears.

We also change the finish. Instead of a "cat, cover, cat", we teach them to run.

Older kids learn the regular curriculum but aren't required to do a kata until they're nine.

 

[terryl965]

under 6 waterdown

6-9 less waterdown

9-12 even less waterdown

12-up they are reqiured to learn everything the adults learn.

Atleast that is what we do at the school
Terry

 

[MJS]

I don't teach the kids classes, but I do have teenagers in my class, some as young as 14, and I think it is very important to teach responsibly to both teens and children. For younger children the curriculum should absolutely be less lethal! It would concern me greatly to see children learning how to do some of the things we do as adults in Kenpo, as Kenpo is an art comprised of many nasty, potentially deadly techniques. Children do not have proper control or judgment in terms of applying force and could potentially/accidentally hurt their friends and siblings. With children, I think it's important to concentrate on awareness first, and then simple, practical, moves that they can use to help them escape attacks like grabs and holds. Over time the discipline of practicing the art (whatever art) and maturity will improve control - this is true for adults as well, but the mentality of a child is different. Even teenagers do not always have proper judgment in terms of control.

Thats a good point. Many people cringe at the thought of a poke to the eye, let alone having a small child do a technique like that. The last thing I'd want on my mind, is knowing that a student gouged the eyes of a classmate on the schoolyard over a minor argument. Then again, I've often thought about child abductors. What would be more effective for the child to do, a punch or a poke to the eye. Of course, the child may not be able to process the difference between an attack by an adult and as I said, a disagreement on the schoolyard.

I have a very good friend who as a teen, fooling with his friends, damaged the spleen of a non-trained friend who was razzing him about his karate training. The friend had to have his spleen removed in an emergency operation. My friend has lived with the guilt of this all his life. A 14 year old may not have the maturity or experience to fully understand the capacity to which the things that they are learning can harm another human being. So while the teens in our school learn the full curriculum, I always make a point of emphasizing control and responsibility with friends and in the school yard whether fooling around, or in self defense.

Along with being a martial artist comes responsibility, and I think that needs to be taught to kids along with how to move.

MJ :asian:

Wow! Yes, I can imagine that he feels terrible.

Mike

 

[jbclinic]

in my opion all kids programs should be watered down to prevent the bullying thing. we want trhem to defend not mame someone, or you can spend time psychoanalyzing each one to build a program for each.

jbclinic

 

[TigerWoman]

Our school doesn't really teach a curriculum of self-defense to kids. Really bothered me so I asked the master to teach more. He didn't. Oh, my kids eventually learned a few basic techniques for wrist grabs, kicking the knee or groin once they were old enough to do any damage. But before that, all they remember is to run and scream (not taught by TKD school). The kids aren't tested on any self-defense.

After 13, they have to learn all the self-defense for adults. Only one problem with this, my kids got their black belts at 12-14 respectively. They weren't required to know the self-defense although they knew the first three belts. So I ended up teaching them myself. I worried that my daughter was going away to college eventually and while she had a mean sidekick and could knee strike as well as anyone, she didn't know all the attacks and what to do with each. I think this is a black hole with our school but hey, what do I know. TW

 

[karatekid1975]

Our kids (juniors) don't learn as much as us. They learn basic stuff, like releases and things. But our self defense is kinda on the brutal side, so the kids don't learn this stuff (other than the basic stuff) at all. They are even one form behind the adults. Once they reach 12 (or 13, can't really remember which), they will learn the adult curriculum.

 

[Blindside]

Our kids curricullum is exactly the same as the adults, the first technique taught calls for a groin kick and a strike to the throat.

While I have some misgivings about it, we have never had any instance of a problem. The only instance that I know of it actually being used was by a 6th grader who was being shoved around by a 9th grader, so he did what he was taught, kicked him in the groin, and poked him in the eyes. Apparently that ended the bullying.

Lamont

 

[kempo-vjj]

Our class has it watered down as well. I like this. Our class doesnt get talked to about how to read certain situations and how to react to them. My children 9 and 10 on the playground would never have to use a full ray of techniques on another child, so I talk to them about what you would never use and what you might want to. Now when it comes to child vs adult situation then yes, run the gammit. Mainly the finishes are different from child to adult curriculum. I would say at 13 to teach them the adult side of the curriculum, with a talk maybe, because at that age maturity is a big issue. And some like me were pretty immature at that age. My wife says I've still got some growing up to do, but whats changed.

 

[celtic_crippler]

With our Kenpo schools we only take kids age 7 and up due to the maturaty level needed to even think about learning the material. What we do teach them is seriously watered down until they hit their mid to late teens (again, maturity level is the main consideration).

 

[green meanie]

Our curriculum for kids isn't what I would call watered down... it's just different. I teach them with two main threats in mind: school yard bullies and child abductors. With that being the case, I teach them some basic groundwork so they can hold their own when they get wrestled to the ground on the playground and I teach them a lot of break-aways with kicks to the knees and groin, followed by running like hell. It's all I can reasonably and realistically expect them to be able to do if someone tries to abduct them. I try to remind them that these kicks are for adult / large attackers only. And then I hope for the best.

 

[jbclinic]

when to place a groin shot which might end the trouble or escaulate, so what i teach the kids is the 3 strike rule 1) say stop or leave me alone 2) worn that you will tell an adult 3) when all fail then react, not garaunteed slows down the want to be agressor

 

[arnisador]

We usually play down the bladed aspects of the art with kids, and focus on the stick and empty hand.

 

[Jagermeister]

Good idea there. I think teaching blade work to kids would be a little irresponsible.

 

[arnisador]

Good idea there. I think teaching blade work to kids would be a little irresponsible.

This is true, but there's another reason of great practical significance to those who wish to teach children: Any talk of knives scares parents. Even if you emphasize that only rubber knives are used, it scares them away--it's violent, it's bloody, people can get cut!

 

[jdinca]

in my opion all kids programs should be watered down to prevent the bullying thing. we want trhem to defend not mame someone, or you can spend time psychoanalyzing each one to build a program for each.

jbclinic

I don't think watering down the program is the best way to prevent bullying behavior. That should come from school philosophy and teaching technique.

 

[Kenpo_man]

under 6 waterdown

6-9 less waterdown

9-12 even less waterdown

12-up they are reqiured to learn everything the adults learn.

Atleast that is what we do at the school
Terry

That sounds about right except that I teach a few kids that are six that are without a doubt more physically and even mentally adept that some nine/ten year olds. It's so tough to set a curriculum based on age because kids develop at such different rates.