kicks..
- Thread starter mantis
- Start date
TX_BB
Purple Belt
Try this http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/eng/tkskill/kibon_skill_cha_1.asp?div=3 it's tedious but it's available.
FearlessFreep
Senior Master
Thanks for that link.
I was pleasently surprised to see knee strikes in there.
I was pleasently surprised to see knee strikes in there.
FearlessFreep
Senior Master
Well, I've done knee strikes in self defense, but we haven't really done them as a general purpose technique. For example, we practice sidekicks as a technique. We use sidekicks as part of self-defense, we use sidekicks for sparring, we use sidekicks in forms. I've used knee kicks in self-defense, bt not in sparring and not in any forms I've learned yet and we haven't touched on them as a general technique so I wasn't sure if they were part of general TKD or not. (We do things in self-defense that are borrowed a bit from Hapkido and some Judo...I think : )
FearlessFreep
Senior Master
t's because of a stereotypical image people have about TKD featuring high kicks, no knees, no hand works
Oh, definitely not! : ) Forms that I know already use reverse punches, backhand strikes, spear hand, and knife hand strikes. My kids (one belt ahead of me) are learning a form with elbow strikes. My instructor insists on being able to use hand strikes when close in during sparring (whether the judges score it or not...interesingly I had a round where I punched a guy in the solar plexus and he went down. Judges didn't give me a point for the punch but I got a bonus point for the knockdown). Anyway, hand strikes is something I work on a lot.
I *do* know that a TKD roundhouse kick, for example, strikes with the instep versus a Muy Thai style of striking with the shin, so I was wondering if there was a philisophical or practical reason that knee strikes were not part of the basic TKD approach
Last week I saw "Ong-bak: The Thai Warrior" and the main character used Muy Thai with a *lot* of knee and eblow strikes so that was kinda on my mind
Oh, definitely not! : ) Forms that I know already use reverse punches, backhand strikes, spear hand, and knife hand strikes. My kids (one belt ahead of me) are learning a form with elbow strikes. My instructor insists on being able to use hand strikes when close in during sparring (whether the judges score it or not...interesingly I had a round where I punched a guy in the solar plexus and he went down. Judges didn't give me a point for the punch but I got a bonus point for the knockdown). Anyway, hand strikes is something I work on a lot.
I *do* know that a TKD roundhouse kick, for example, strikes with the instep versus a Muy Thai style of striking with the shin, so I was wondering if there was a philisophical or practical reason that knee strikes were not part of the basic TKD approach
Last week I saw "Ong-bak: The Thai Warrior" and the main character used Muy Thai with a *lot* of knee and eblow strikes so that was kinda on my mind
Marginal
Senior Master
Don't recall coming across one. (Maybe the TAGB TKD books)Miles said:
Kinda goes like this tho:
Turning kick: Roundhouse kick aimed 45 degrees off
Side turning kick: Roundhouse kick aimed in front
Pick shaped kick: Axe kick
Crescent kick, defensive only, only out to in.
Verticle kick: Similar to crescent kick, but attacking tool(s) differs, can be performed out side to in, or vice versa offensive application only. Minimal arc.
Downward kick: Outside to in or vice versa variation of axe kick
That's it for off the top of my head...
FearlessFreep
Senior Master
I think the distinction is that a roundhouse kick can come into the target at a 90% offset from the plane of the target surface...or not. In our school, that 90% 'flat' attaack is preffered. But I think other schools allow/encourgae/teach that you can also come up into the target at a 45% angle. I don't know if that's by style of just philosophy of the teacher.
cali_tkdbruin
Master of Arts
Taewondo, it kicks for sure. I took up the art because you use the strongest part of your body in this art, your legs. Big or small, your legs are the strongest part of your body. Now, is TKD the end of all of it in the MA world and the best of all martial arts??? Knuckle heads pleaseee! That's why we cross train. One single MA will not cut it in the real world... :asian:
FearlessFreep
Senior Master
I sometimes am tempted to think that one MA *can* hack it in the 'real world' as long as you train in that art to meet threats of all kinds. If all your training in any art is just against practioners of that art then you'll be in trouble when you face someone who attacks in a different way. I am sometimes thinking though that, for example, to train an extra hour using Taekwondo moves that you already spending hours drilling in anyway, to work to defend against a takedown attempt is probably more efficient than learning a new set of moves from an art that does takedowns.
(Perfect example is that I saw a takedown (shoot) attempt in a Pride match last week...the defender threw a knee to the head against the attacker and the attacker went down and about 10 seconds later the match was over when the 'defender' has jumped on the 'attacker' and was viciously kneeing him in the head before the match was called. Well...knees strikes are a Takewondo technique so spending some time training knee strikes as a takedown defense is, imho, a better use of time perfecting a technique you already know versus learning a second art and learning a whole knew set of techniques)
One reason I think out instructor mixes Hapkido joint locks into our self-defense is not that Hapkido techniques are better suited than Taekwondo techniques but simply that joint-locks allow measured-controlled appropriate response much better then head kicks
Mastering one art I think has advantages over split training across many arts sometimes
(Perfect example is that I saw a takedown (shoot) attempt in a Pride match last week...the defender threw a knee to the head against the attacker and the attacker went down and about 10 seconds later the match was over when the 'defender' has jumped on the 'attacker' and was viciously kneeing him in the head before the match was called. Well...knees strikes are a Takewondo technique so spending some time training knee strikes as a takedown defense is, imho, a better use of time perfecting a technique you already know versus learning a second art and learning a whole knew set of techniques)
One reason I think out instructor mixes Hapkido joint locks into our self-defense is not that Hapkido techniques are better suited than Taekwondo techniques but simply that joint-locks allow measured-controlled appropriate response much better then head kicks
Mastering one art I think has advantages over split training across many arts sometimes
OP
OP
mantis
Master Black Belt
im only quoting your post coz it's the shortest..cali_tkdbruin said:
but i think whether you cross-train or keep on MA you should be okay as long as you practice a lot and acquire a lot of experience. i tend to believe that if you spend 30 years playing with chop sticks you might be able to defeat a good fighter with them
Freep, I have to ask you, you brought up an interesting related issue in another thread that was actually a discussion from another board. I was in that discussion on the other board. It was in regards to whether it's better to train one side of your body all the time, or both side equal time. Without rehashing it, isn't this the exact same thing? Is it better to practice one art to perfection or several equally? I know the common answer is cross-train. I don't necessarily agree. I think that answer can only be answered on an individual basis. Maybe that's a good question for another thread?
To get back on topic, the roundhouse (as I was taught) is always technically 90 deg. Many perform higher ones at 45 deg. just because their body mechanics won't allow 90 deg at say, head height. A sparring roundhouse often resembles such a kick but if done correctly the twist is at the very end of the kick and it is actually 90 deg. It's just so fast and short, it doesn't appear that way. Such things are why it's dangerous to learn by video. From watching and trying to copy, you'd learn the wrong mechanics of that kick.
To get back on topic, the roundhouse (as I was taught) is always technically 90 deg. Many perform higher ones at 45 deg. just because their body mechanics won't allow 90 deg at say, head height. A sparring roundhouse often resembles such a kick but if done correctly the twist is at the very end of the kick and it is actually 90 deg. It's just so fast and short, it doesn't appear that way. Such things are why it's dangerous to learn by video. From watching and trying to copy, you'd learn the wrong mechanics of that kick.
Gemini, good points.
We perform what we call the "chop kick" as a roundhouse kick at 90 degree angle and don't drill a 45 degree. Though I've read arguments for using the mid-angle "chop kick" as a sparring tool, I'd have to counter with the danger of glancing and knee injury. But I digress - kick viability is a topic for another thread.
I'm curious as to differences in back kicks. Some perform this as a donkey-style kick. We perform this kick similarly to the side kick with the hip turned out, thrusting the heel rather than scooping it.
What say the rest of ye?
We perform what we call the "chop kick" as a roundhouse kick at 90 degree angle and don't drill a 45 degree. Though I've read arguments for using the mid-angle "chop kick" as a sparring tool, I'd have to counter with the danger of glancing and knee injury. But I digress - kick viability is a topic for another thread.
I'm curious as to differences in back kicks. Some perform this as a donkey-style kick. We perform this kick similarly to the side kick with the hip turned out, thrusting the heel rather than scooping it.
What say the rest of ye?
