How effective are Soccer Kicks in fighting? Especially compared to ¨martial arts¨ style kicks?

7BallZ

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One of the biggest arguments you ever see in the ¨Streetfighting vs Traditional Martial Arts VS RBSD VS MMA/Sports fighting¨ is the effectiveness of the ¨soccer kick¨.

On the martial arts side, they always see it as lacking technique and thus one representing thugs and untrained fighters. They dont see it as being useful at all and say your better off sending a kick of such power such as roundhouse. The MMA side also looks down on it, viewing it as a cowardly tactic and even assuming rules allow it, I cannot tell you how many MMA pros and fans state that all you have to do to counter it is grab the feet (because they believe it will be so exposed due to its sloppy nature). Even if if youŕe being kicked while on the ground, MMA supporters state simply grab the leg while its hitting you with your arm or some leg pin and the guy is down for submission. The RBSD (as typical) say KICKS period are terrible technique and include this as one of the techniques you shouldn't do but also say its far more practical than most martial art kicks and one of the few kicks you will ever see them showing as an effective technique along with side kicks. They even encourage it as an endder in a fight when your opponent is down. The street fighting crowd however LOVE this technique to the point its one of the MOST used kicks by brawlers and street fights almost always end with the winner(s) kicking the opponent on the ground like a soccer ball.

More important, even cultures where kicking is traditionally frowned on such as England, even thugs who see kicking as unmanly make an exception for soccer kicks. I cannot tell you how many football riots I seen where English hooligans kick on people who are getting up from the ground. Its only the ¨gentlemen¨ and ¨upperclass¨ folks who saw even the simplistic soccer kick as a forbidden technique and I can point to you so many boxing manuals and publications made in the 1800s of upperclass boxing fans pointing out to the ¨English peasants¨ using soccer kicks as proof of how they lack refinement and class and why the aristocracy is so superior.

Even here in America, before the martial arts craze came in the 60s soccer kicks was probably the only technique your average untrained Joe (who lacked real fighting experience) could think of doing along with stomping as far as ¨leg techniques¨ go in street fighting. Its a telling thing when angry white collar weakers and blue collar workers in the less physically demanding jobs were throwing soccer kicks (and stomps) on policemen during riots and on black people during lynchings. And this was when SOCCER was practically unknown in American society outside of European immigrants!

One thing I will note though is that real fighters with experience I noted-even those with lots of experience and training in MMA and traditional martial arts- will often throw soccer kicks, often as a first resort when they decide to use their legs against a standing opponent, and as one of the primary techniques on a downed opponent they are trying to finish. Just watch so many prison fights to see what I mean.

Even in mainland Asia, when fighting gets too cramped to throw traditional martial arts techniques or when the circumstances prevent proper stance and leverage (such as say a staircase), Asians streetfighters and trained martial artists can be seen throwing soccer kicks in footages in brawls (even though their specific styles don't teach soccer kicks and other dirty techniques).

So I am curious of how effective soccer kicks are?

Also I have to ask why do so many Western martial arts schools and practitioners look down on it? I understand most Asian styles and their texts don't show anything about how to do soccer kicks, not even mention it at all, but for Christ sake trained Asian martial artists and experienced street fighters are shown doing it in LIVE FOOTAGE!

Also what makes this technique so natural along with the stomp that even cultures that tend to forbid kicking (such as 19th century America and Britain) give leeway to soccer kicks and even untrained people who are unfit and never been to a single brawl in their lives do it out of instinct on stomping opponents and even in the middle of their first fight?
 

JowGaWolf

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For me I think it's better to look at this by first removing the term "soccer kicks" A kick to the head may look like a soccer kick from a distance but the technique that is actually used is something totally different. This is why you aren't going to see anything about how to do "soccer kicks" in any martial art style. To use the phrase "soccer kick" suggest that the technique comes from soccer.

In martial arts the kick that you are referring to is a basic low kick. It's uses similar mechanics as low kicks to the legs. You can find tons of information about low kicks in Asian martial arts and in martial arts in general. I think you'll have a different perspective if you research martial arts low kicks.
 

Danny T

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One of the biggest arguments you ever see in the ¨Streetfighting vs Traditional Martial Arts VS RBSD VS MMA/Sports fighting¨ is the effectiveness of the ¨soccer kick¨.

On the martial arts side, they always see it as lacking technique and thus one representing thugs and untrained fighters.
It is a good finisher if/when the opportunity presents. We train it. I've never had anyone argue against using it other than in sport competition for safety of the downed fighter.
 

drop bear

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Iwas talking to a guy who fought mma with soccer kicks some organisations allow them.

One fc is an example.
 

Dinkydoo

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They are really effective if your opponent is in a really specific situation - sitting or lying on the ground.

Most european men have casually played or have participated in football training at some point in their life, so it's not surprising that the technique is used quite commonly. Much more people know how to kick a ball through experience than throwing a roundhouse
 

Dirty Dog

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A "soccer kick" is a MA kick, and they're useful - like most any kick - in a specific set of circumstances.
 

Tez3

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More important, even cultures where kicking is traditionally frowned on such as England, even thugs who see kicking as unmanly make an exception for soccer kicks. I cannot tell you how many football riots I seen where English hooligans kick on people who are getting up from the ground. Its only the ¨gentlemen¨ and ¨upperclass¨ folks who saw even the simplistic soccer kick as a forbidden technique and I can point to you so many boxing manuals and publications made in the 1800s of upperclass boxing fans pointing out to the ¨English peasants¨ using soccer kicks as proof of how they lack refinement and class and why the aristocracy is so superior.

Wow, that's certainly very weird. Where on earth did you get that load of rubbish from? Unmanly? I think you may have been watching too many films if you think there are that many football 'riots' in 'England ( I assume you actually mean the UK, do I have to remind you England is only one country out of 7 in the UK?) and you've been there watching them.
Kicking isn't 'traditionally' frowned upon here, we even have shin kicking competitions. 'Simplistic soccer kick'? I think you are trying hard to sound as if you know what you are talking about but sadly you don't. No one looks down on kicking or using football licks ( if you are going to talk about 'English' people kicking then it's football kicks)
 

drop bear

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Is frowned on here by the way. Assault by kicking is an extra offence.
 

Tony Dismukes

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Yeah, I really don't know where you got the idea that there are any big arguments about the effectiveness of the "soccer kick" or that martial artists in general look down on it. Used under the right circumstances, it's a solid, effective technique.
 

Tez3

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Having just been stuck in a blizzard for three hours I've had time to ponder on this and a few other things, there's only so much snow one can watch fall. I recommend Landrovers though for being a comfortable vehicle to be stuck in and if we can't get through in that no one is getting through. What's that got to do with anything, well just like the OP nothing very much.

There's no big arguments about 'soccer kicks' among martial artists, non martial arts MMA fans don't care what kicks are used, no one thinks they are 'cowardly', kicks haven't ever been banned in the UK. The old adage stands ....never hit a man when he's down, kick him it's easier, my dad taught me that. The OP has some very odd ideas about kicks, the UK, gentlemen and what a 'soccer' kick really? All round very strange. But hey it provides a very amusing discussion in the car with husband and son, both martial artists, especially the stuff about the 'English'.
 

Tony Dismukes

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I don't think the OP actually studies martial arts. He reads stuff, but I don't think he quite understands or knows how to evaluate what he reads.
 

JowGaWolf

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Not on my phone so I can link stuff.

As I said. It is done in onhtml

.

And there is an art form to it.

And it is considered poor fighting form.
SUMMARY OFFENCES ACT 1966 - SECT 24 Aggravated assault

I train self-defense and in that world there is very little that would be considered poor fighting form except for stuff that doesn't work. If a kick to the head while my opponent is down works then it's fair game in self-defense. The fact that people actually train to minimize the risk of a low kick to the face suggests that regardless of how unfair or fair a person may think it is, that person better know how to avoid it. It's just good self-defense.

What the guy in the blue jaket did was poor fighting form. He wasn't even in the fight and then takes a sucker punch to someone? How's that better fighting form than a kick to the face? o_O
 

Gnarlie

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I train self-defense and in that world there is very little that would be considered poor fighting form except for stuff that doesn't work. If a kick to the head while my opponent is down works then it's fair game in self-defense. The fact that people actually train to minimize the risk of a low kick to the face suggests that regardless of how unfair or fair a person may think it is, that person better know how to avoid it. It's just good self-defense.

What the guy in the blue jaket did was poor fighting form. He wasn't even in the fight and then takes a sucker punch to someone? How's that better fighting form than a kick to the face? o_O
Might be a challenge justifying reasonable force, kicking a downed opponent's head. Does that downed opponent still represent such a threat that potentially deadly force is necessary?

I have seen that action equated with attempted murder. I guess it depends on the individual circumstances and where you live.

Good self defence shouldn't land you in jail. So called soccer kicks to the legs or body might be fine, although biomechanically suboptimal IMO. To the head, less great, more dangerous.

Garry Newlove springs to mind - not an example of kicking in self defence, but an example of what damage a kick can cause.

The Crime
 
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JowGaWolf

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Good self defence shouldn't land you in jail
For me good self-defense is what keeps the head from being put in such a position.

Good self-defense doesn't get you killed or severely injured. Confronting multiple gang members is not good self-defense. Fetal position is a horrible self-defense tactic.

Just because the face is "soccer ball" level doesn't mean that the attacker is dazed and helpless. A kick to the face is a kick to the face, how it happens and when it happens is what helps to determine if it was self-defense.
 

drop bear

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I train self-defense and in that world there is very little that would be considered poor fighting form except for stuff that doesn't work. If a kick to the head while my opponent is down works then it's fair game in self-defense. The fact that people actually train to minimize the risk of a low kick to the face suggests that regardless of how unfair or fair a person may think it is, that person better know how to avoid it. It's just good self-defense.

What the guy in the blue jaket did was poor fighting form. He wasn't even in the fight and then takes a sucker punch to someone? How's that better fighting form than a kick to the face? o_O

You seem very contradictory. So first you suggest there is no rules in a street fight and then say it was unfair to be sucker punched.

See if there are rules in a street fight. And you decide to break them you open yourself up as fair game. So a one on one fight could be let go on until on person goes down. Leave it there walk away.

If you don't and someone ko,s you that is your fauit. That is just the way society works. So for example if you punch a woman in the face and five guys flog you for it. You are still the one that showed poor form.


Booting someone on the deck is neither self defence because you have a duty to remove yourself from the fight. Or reasonable monkey dance because you made whatever point you were trying to make and now you are just needesly hurting someone.

Defending being kicked in the face on the ground is not the same thing as supporting people doing it in fights.
 
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Tez3

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Might be a challenge justifying reasonable force, kicking a downed opponent's head. Does that downed opponent still represent such a threat that potentially deadly force is necessary?

I have seen that action equated with attempted murder. I guess it depends on the individual circumstances and where you live.

Good self defence shouldn't land you in jail. So called soccer kicks to the legs or body might be fine, although biomechanically suboptimal IMO. To the head, less great, more dangerous.

Garry Newlove springs to mind - not an example of kicking in self defence, but an example of what damage a kick can cause.

The Crime

What you say is true of course but it's a different thing from the OPs saying it's thought 'unmanly' etc. The considerations of whether to kick to the head when your attacker/opponent is on the ground should be whether it's justifiable in law or whether it's reasonable defence, the 'unmanly' stuff has nothing to do with it. It's worth an argument on self defence and legal grounds but it certainly isn't thought of in the terms such as the OP couches it.
 

Gnarlie

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What you say is true of course but it's a different thing from the OPs saying it's thought 'unmanly' etc. The considerations of whether to kick to the head when your attacker/opponent is on the ground should be whether it's justifiable in law or whether it's reasonable defence, the 'unmanly' stuff has nothing to do with it. It's worth an argument on self defence and legal grounds but it certainly isn't thought of in the terms such as the OP couches it.

I agree. Use of such a kick and the appropriateness thereof is highly dependent on the context. That appropriateness or otherwise has nothing to do with manliness, honour, or whatever.
 

JowGaWolf

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You seem very contradictory. So first you suggest there is no rules in a street fight and then say it was unfair to be sucker punched.
You miss understood the point I was getting at. Some are against the kick to face and then show a video of a guy who wasn't even in the fight come out and sucker punch. Yet those who are against the kick to the face say nothing about the sucker punch.

The fact that a random guy came out of the crowd shows that there is no rules to a street fight.

See if there are rules in a street fight. And you decide to break them you open yourself up as fair game
You become fair game when the fight starts. You don't have to break any rules for that to happen. You make assumptions that the person beating your face in, is following any type of rule other than hurting you.

What are the rules to this street fight?

What are the rules to this street fight?

What are the rules to this street fight?
 
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