First, the best advice has already been given:
Go to each school, investigate heavily. Watch the advanced students... do they move and behave like you'd like to?? Question the instructors...A LOT. If they are like most martial arts instructors they LOVE answering questions about their art, their teachers, their thoughts/beliefs in regards to their arts...etc.-- Brother John
I have no agenda and can only speak about the art (Science) I practice and that is SL4. So for what it's worth, here is what I have to say:
When discussing any Martial Art it is difficult to distill them into such a simple description. In a very general sense as you described, Kenpo and Hapkido sound the same. (You used one sentence to describe them). This does not do EITHER system justice.
Sounds like the two are exactly the same except for kenpo you take out the pressure points and throw in eye/groin attacks.
This is not true. Every teacher has their way of teaching. Whether it be Kenpo or Hapkido. One school will be better than the other possibly. One may have taken out the eye gouges and added pressure point strikes (nerve strikes). You may find a great Hapkido instructor who you would learn more from than the bad Kenpo instructor down the street.
In SL4 there are hardly any eye gouges for the simple fact that lawsuites are common. Someone grabs you... you poke his eye out.... you go to jail.
I'm kinda leaning toward Hapkido because pressure points seem more practical, least damaging way to put a person down.
The amount of damage is not inherent to either system. SL4 has nerve strikes (pressure points) which are used to create an overwhelming nervous response and end the confrontation. Hopefully we have caused little damage. However, keep in mind that Hapkido can be very damaging to the attackers joints. Ligaments and muscle can easily be torn. In the end it's up to the Martial Artist to modulate the level of his response to the attacker. Ask a good Hapkido practitioiner to give you a demonstration of how deadly on the joints Hapkido can be. You'll find that your above statement will be modified.
A quote from Doc's writings:
This "advanced level" of His American Kenpo as I understand it, shortened sometimes to SL-4? tends to be misunderstood because it covers multiple areas of evolution and applications. When SubLevel Four is used to strike, nerves are activated through basic Destructive Sequencing utilizing Chinese Acupuncture Meridians, pressure points, and nerves embedded in cavities of the human body. This causes the subject to involuntarily react in a predictable manner creating a Negative Body Posture. This places him at a significant anatomical disadvantage. In simple terms, nerve cavities are made accessible and body positioning is physically restricted and vulnerable, thus the term Negative Body Posture. This unique methodology effectively manipulates the body uniquely for each additional action, until it is essentially incapacitated by a bodily dysfunction called Physical/Mental Disassociation or physically incapacitation. At the very least, your attacker is severely momentarily physically restricted.
Body Mass and Pressure Points
Pressure points don't always work on everybody, either. And you have to remember that each build is different, so they're not always in the same spot. People with more body fat / mass will not feel them as much and vital (soft spot) striking becomes important.
VERY, VERY important statement. Very true. Everyone is built differently. The nerver points will be in the same AREA, but it takes years to be able to see exactly where they are on anyone. In terms of body mass. I was recently demonstrating a nerver strike on a larger, rather obese person. It took me longer to find the spot and once I did, I had to hit harder.
Dr. Chapel was yelling at me one time. I was looking at the meridian (Pressure point, nerve center) charts. He said, "Don't look at those." Of course, I ask why. "Their wrong!"... ok this got me. The charts, which have been around for years and years were wrong. I had never heard anyone say this before, but Doc insisted. Well... six months later the Chinese health organization (dont know the name) announced that something like 76 of the 300 some odd nerve points were wrong. They were reprinting all charts and recommending people update. Heheheh... Doc looked at me and said, "I told you."
As an aside, I'm apparently one of those people on whom pressure point techniques mostly don't work. Or, so I've been told.-- arnisador
Apparently you haven't met Doc!
And finally I have to go off on Pain Compliance versus, I don't know what to call it, but here goes, Anatomical Compliance. Doc is in England and would expand further or yell at me.
Pain Compliance
Hapkido and most joint manipulation relies on pain compliance. You cause enough pain that someone will unwillingly comply. However, as someone stated in this thread, not everyone has the same pain threshold. As such, a technique may not work as well on a larger, more pain tolerant individual. Others may have supple joints or are double jointed, which might possibly add another level of difficulty to pain compliance.
So, pain alone cannot be used as a method of controlling an opponent. It is the basis for many arts and is valid, but should not be the only emphasis. In addition, you may end up physically maiming someone who will not comply. They just might force you to pop every ligament in their shoulder, in which case you might have a lawsuite.
What complements Pain Compliance?
Anatomical Compliance... (Not a Sl4 term, but used for reference. I am sure Doc has a word for it.)
Certain physical phenomenon are provable and quantifiable. They hold under strict scientific testing. Physics plays a major part. If I throw a ball into the air, I know it will come back down (assuming we are on earth). Gravity is a fact.
Consider the human anatomy. If someone bends at the waste and their head is below their waste, they cannot move their feet in any locomative fashion. Perhaps a slight stomp, but nothing substantial. They are stuck in place unless they roll to the ground. Try it.
How does the help Pain Compliance work? If you force a persons body into a Negative Body Posture, one in which the body is in a state where it cannot respond efficiently or effectively, you have greatly increased your ability to perform a technique or create compliance. As such, the level of pain compliance is lowered.
The person who will not obey with pain alone, is forced to obey, because as much as they might like to, they cannot deny physics.
Is it complicated? Yes. Even being able to see when a person is in a Negative Body Posture takes time and creating takes even more training. Creating it spontaneously (i.e. not in a training drill) will take more time still...
Learning Anatomical Compliance WITH Pain Compliance will help avoid situations where someone does not respond to pain and would otherwise force you to break their arm. In todays society we don't want this. Certainly Police would be better off since their current systems work on Pain compliance as the main control mechanism.
I must admit I do see Anatomical Compliance in other arts, but it is not codified or scientificall studied. It is a byproduct of the system. SL4 teaches it, not as a byproduct, but as a necessity. There are names for methods for creating Negative Body Postures and as such, it becomes true knowledge.
A simple example is when a cop has a person put their hands on the hood of the car, legs spread wide. This is a difficult position to move quickly from, because it puts the suspect in an anatomically deficient position (negative body posture).
Wow... ok, I didn't expect to write that much. Hope it helps.
