Karate kid- sweep the leg mentality

[Kickboxer101]

So in the movie karate kid anyone who's seen it knows the most famous scene is where kreese says to johnny sweep the leg as he knows his leg is injured and that's seen as a terrible thing to say and such a bad thing even martial artists who I know say he was wrong to say that. But to me why was it so wrong. A sweep is a legal technique and its targeting a weakness so why is it bad. I mean in kickboxing or mma if a guys leg is hurt your going to keep kicking that leg or if they're cut your going to target that cut to get the fight stopped or if their ribs are hurt you'll aim for the ribs. It's just a normal tactic. So I just wonder why so many people consider that scene evil from the instructor martial artists included when its a genuine good tactic to use that pretty much every fighter uses. An opponent has a weakness target the weakness

 

[Dirty Dog]

Because these were children, and it was an injury intentionally inflicted by multiple illegal attacks.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

So in the movie karate kid anyone who's seen it knows the most famous scene is where kreese says to johnny sweep the leg as he knows his leg is injured and that's seen as a terrible thing to say and such a bad thing even martial artists who I know say he was wrong to say that. But to me why was it so wrong. A sweep is a legal technique and its targeting a weakness so why is it bad. I mean in kickboxing or mma if a guys leg is hurt your going to keep kicking that leg or if they're cut your going to target that cut to get the fight stopped or if their ribs are hurt you'll aim for the ribs. It's just a normal tactic. So I just wonder why so many people consider that scene evil from the instructor martial artists included when its a genuine good tactic to use that pretty much every fighter uses. An opponent has a weakness target the weakness

My personal approach is that I will not do anything that has good likelihood of causing serious or permanent injury unless the person gives me good cause. Competition is not good cause (a violent attack, of course, is).

This is why I'm not interested in competing in many types of competition. There are too many who are more than willing to injure people for the sake of a win. Since I won't do that, I'd be at a disadvantage, and dealing with that sort of mentality (and the commensurate risk of injury) doesn't bring anything useful to my life, so I just don't.

 

[Tez3]

As DD says, it was a competition in which children were taking part. It's sport not fighting, if that were to happen in another sport where children were taking part it would still be wrong.

 

[marques]

The same.
Great strategy for war or professional competition.
Bad strategy for a kids sport.

PS: I personally never went to (KO) competitions for the same logic as gpseymour. But I recognise their value to the martial arts and their entertainment side. (Why do we like to see violence?! I keep saying to myself I just like to see technicists as Saenchai or Holzken, but it still is violence...).

 

[JowGaWolf]

So in the movie karate kid anyone who's seen it knows the most famous scene is where kreese says to johnny sweep the leg as he knows his leg is injured and that's seen as a terrible thing to say and such a bad thing even martial artists who I know say he was wrong to say that. But to me why was it so wrong. A sweep is a legal technique and its targeting a weakness so why is it bad. I mean in kickboxing or mma if a guys leg is hurt your going to keep kicking that leg or if they're cut your going to target that cut to get the fight stopped or if their ribs are hurt you'll aim for the ribs. It's just a normal tactic. So I just wonder why so many people consider that scene evil from the instructor martial artists included when its a genuine good tactic to use that pretty much every fighter uses. An opponent has a weakness target the weakness

You have to take into context of the culture when the movie was made. It was made during a time where heroic qualities were of value. The 1980's was full of "being honorable" where the good guy always took the high road to victory. Back then positive values and characteristics were things that society was really into. This is also a time where some of the martial arts systems picked up a "zen / respect the world" stereotype that they didn't originally have. There was a lot of shows and movies that promoted and shaped the values and morals of young people.

"Sweep the leg" in that movie was less about sweeping the leg and more about being honorable and had nothing to do with the true nature of Karate. In the 80's MMA ground in pound would be something that only bad guys would have done. The idea of a "Gentleman Fight" has always been a part of American Culture for which I blame the British for.

The reality of the sweep is that it has great potential to mess you up big time. Jake Mace on youtube shattered his arm after his sparring partner swept him. The danger with some of the sweeps is that there's no way to really predict how the person will fall. These types of sweeps are often illegal in non- MMA type competitions.

 

[marques]

The danger with some of the sweeps is that there's no way to really predict how the person will fall. These types of sweeps are often illegal in non- MMA type competitions.

I hold my partner-opponent in the fall to the ground (had no option, training on hard floor all the time). So I control him all the time, I can continue on the ground in good position, and control the amount of damage required in a self-defence application. Also never force it. It works effortless, or I will just retreat.

Not that I am the best example, just that there are other ways beyond illegalize everything. At least in training, there are many ways to train virtually everything safely. Or at the end, only 'QI' will be allowed...

 

[JowGaWolf]

I hold my partner-opponent in the fall to the ground

We do the same when we do certain sweeps. Holding the person and controlling the fall is the only way to keep a training partner from being hurt. We also do a riskier form of training where we sweep with the understanding that our partner will be able to avoid the sweep. This allows us to train our long range sweeps. The rule for that type of sweep is, if it seems that your partner isn't going to be able to avoid the sweep in time, stop the sweep.

In competition, I wouldn't want to make a rule where I would have to control my opponents fall. I would rather just make it illegal. The reason why is because depending on the type of sweep that is done, there is no opportunity for me to control anything but the force of the sweep. In other cases me trying to control my opponents fall may put me at risk of my opponent taking advantage of me.

Here's an example, I was training a female student (who is a hyper teen) with how to do sweeps, so I performed a sweep on her. In her mind she felt like she could defend against the sweep (aka, the sweep doesn't work). So when I swept her, I held her up and she started kicking wildly, with kicks that landed near the groin while I was trying to control her fall. She had no concept of when the technique ended and me trying to protect her from falling on the ground started. So I'm trying to keep her from falling on the ground and getting injured while avoiding groin kicks. I can see the same thing happening or something similar happening with competition to the rules where a sweep would be legal provided that the person controls their opponents fall.

In training, all of the sweeps can be trained safely by using ways to either control the fall or use another tool to simulate a leg. We use a swim noodle to simulate a leg which allows us to do full force sweeps without any risk to our partner.

 

[Buka]

Might have had something to do with the wife beater gis. They just scream asshat.

 

[Tez3]

who is a hyper teen

What's one of them when they're at home?
The 'gentleman' fighter thing is just to fool you, the British are actually very dirty fighters.

 

[Touch Of Death]

We do the same when we do certain sweeps. Holding the person and controlling the fall is the only way to keep a training partner from being hurt. We also do a riskier form of training where we sweep with the understanding that our partner will be able to avoid the sweep. This allows us to train our long range sweeps. The rule for that type of sweep is, if it seems that your partner isn't going to be able to avoid the sweep in time, stop the sweep.

In competition, I wouldn't want to make a rule where I would have to control my opponents fall. I would rather just make it illegal. The reason why is because depending on the type of sweep that is done, there is no opportunity for me to control anything but the force of the sweep. In other cases me trying to control my opponents fall may put me at risk of my opponent taking advantage of me.

Here's an example, I was training a female student (who is a hyper teen) with how to do sweeps, so I performed a sweep on her. In her mind she felt like she could defend against the sweep (aka, the sweep doesn't work). So when I swept her, I held her up and she started kicking wildly, with kicks that landed near the groin while I was trying to control her fall. She had no concept of when the technique ended and me trying to protect her from falling on the ground started. So I'm trying to keep her from falling on the ground and getting injured while avoiding groin kicks. I can see the same thing happening or something similar happening with competition to the rules where a sweep would be legal provided that the person controls their opponents fall.

In training, all of the sweeps can be trained safely by using ways to either control the fall or use another tool to simulate a leg. We use a swim noodle to simulate a leg which allows us to do full force sweeps without any risk to our partner.

That is crazy!

 

[Touch Of Death]

Lets make fighting too close, against the rules; so, people don't feel uncomfortable.

 

[Touch Of Death]

What's one of them when they're at home?
The 'gentleman' fighter thing is just to fool you, the British are actually very dirty fighters.

Yeah, when people expect you to play by the rules, they are trying to limit you. The whole thing is a shaming tactic.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Lets make fighting too close, against the rules; so, people don't feel uncomfortable.

I do kung fu so a lot of stuff feels uncomfortable lol

 

[Touch Of Death]

I do kung fu so a lot of stuff feels uncomfortable lol

Wouldn't eliminating, even the safe sweep, cause people to start fighting like complete idiots?

 

[JowGaWolf]

What's one of them when they're at home?
The 'gentleman' fighter thing is just to fool you, the British are actually very dirty fighters.

she's super hyper at home. Kung fu only calms her down when the training is really tiring
I blame the American history books for British comment. Lol

 

[Tez3]

she's super hyper at home. Kung fu only calms her down when the training is really tiring
I blame the American history books for British comment. Lol

Hyperactive?

People should never mistake the British politeness for weakness, we're actually pretty ruthless under the good manners.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Wouldn't eliminating, even the safe sweep, cause people to start fighting like complete idiots?

I'm not sure what you mean

 

[Touch Of Death]

I'm not sure what you mean

It mean you can be open for the sweep the entire time, and there is nothing your opponent can do about it. This also might lead people to believe they aren't open for the sweep...

 

[JowGaWolf]

Hyperactive?

People should never mistake the British politeness for weakness, we're actually pretty ruthless under the good manners.

Yes hyperactive is being kind. lol. She's not as bad as she was before, but a year ago, when this happened she was really out of control, she had as much focus looking through a stain glass window and would bounce all over the place. It's very tough training someone like that. This year she's better so I'm not sure if she is on medication, grew out of it, or is at an age where she can control it better. Hyperactive kids tend to kick without focus which makes drilling interesting because I never knew where that strike would land.

You just have to remind Americans about the past history of torture, chopping heads off. etc. lol.