Karate history

Tez3

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Most of this simply because I posted that karate includes, and in fact is comprised of, weaponry / percussion / grappling. Amazing what happens when one if afraid to take the blinders of style and "what we do and do not do" off. Take them off, see martial movement for what it is...it is common to all "styles", systems, methods, schools...there are definitely some peculiarities to each, but if you look at the similarities, look at the core...the core moving the core...there are core fundamentals that do not belong to "style", they belong to the human mechanism. If you see these movements, poses, postures, bases, etc., clearly and with a core, basic mind, you see the equal use of weaponry / percussion / grappling.

Sorry you don't want to see it...it is life optimizing!!!

Ok, so basically you think we are all idiots and you are the only one with the 'truth', Good, glad that's settled. I'm off to the Judo class for my Jo fighting lesson then I'm off to the boxing class for my grappling one. Where shall I go next? Any ideas people?
 

MI_martialist

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I never said you were all idiots. I said that you unfortunately walk around with martial blinders on. I will go back to my statement that you are not thinking basic enough.

BTW...I don't have the truth...the truth exists in pure martial science training. I have access to pure martial science training and have been exposed to the truth, have trained and continue to train in a purely core fashion. It is available to everyone who is willing to put their ego and bias aside.

Ok, so basically you think we are all idiots and you are the only one with the 'truth', Good, glad that's settled. I'm off to the Judo class for my Jo fighting lesson then I'm off to the boxing class for my grappling one. Where shall I go next? Any ideas people?
 

Tez3

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I said that you unfortunately walk around with martial blinders on

How many years have you been training, how many people have you trained under, how many styles have you trained with to investigate their styles? Are you willing to bet that you know more than all of the posters on here who have trained their styles for decades AND have studied martial arts history, writings and spoken with and learnt from the many reputable martial artists out there?

You have ideas in your head that haven't coalesced into rational statements. You say we have martial blinders on (as opposed to Peaky Blinders a rather good British television series) yet you have nothing to say that would lift these supposed blinkered views. if all you can say is 'we need to be more basic'. Nope you need to be more specific and made rational statements that can be discussed, these 'mystical' sayings are getting you nowhere.

the truth exists in pure martial science training. I have access to pure martial science training and have been exposed to the truth, have trained and continue to train in a purely core fashion. It is available to everyone who is willing to put their ego and bias aside.

This is a sales line that someone has pitched at you and you've swallowed hook, line and sinker. How much is the monetary cost us to have 'this truth' unveiled to us?
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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For a long time, electrical engineering was not taught...does that mean that electricity did not exist? Your argument is flawed.
It existed, but it was not part of scienrific study, just like in boxing weapons are not part of their study. Just because it exists doesn't mean a specific group studies it.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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For a long time, electrical engineering was not taught...does that mean that electricity did not exist? Your argument is flawed.
Also,
Your statement: All martial arts study 3 areas equally.
My statement: no, here are 2 that don't study them equally.
Your statement: Your argument is flawed, something can exist without being studied.

If anything, that line would support my statement, as I'm not doubting all 3 exist, just that all styles will study them.
 

hoshin1600

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Most of this simply because I posted that karate includes, and in fact is comprised of, weaponry / percussion / grappling. Amazing what happens when one if afraid to take the blinders of style and "what we do and do not do" off. Take them off, see martial movement for what it is...it is common to all "styles", systems, methods, schools...there are definitely some peculiarities to each, but if you look at the similarities, look at the core...the core moving the core...there are core fundamentals that do not belong to "style", they belong to the human mechanism. If you see these movements, poses, postures, bases, etc., clearly and with a core, basic mind, you see the equal use of weaponry / percussion / grappling.

Sorry you don't want to see it...it is life optimizing!!!

the problem my friend is that your posts come off as a bit patronizing rather than enlightening. im sure you dont mean it that way. the issue i have with posts like this is that it uses rhetoric..
Amazing what happens when one if afraid to take the blinders of style

Take them off, see martial movement for what it is.
you may be 100% correct in your view but rather than tell us we are blind it would be better for you to explain. that of course would require you to use some critical thinking and have a good depth of knowledge of your view point. that is something most people dont have because we all have a tendency to just mimic and repeat what was told to us. if someone holds a view point and they want others to understand it then you have to be able to articulate it in a way others can understand. i am very open to your thoughts, i have no blinders on as you say, i just need you to be able to express your ideas fully without just repeating words that have been told to you.
 

Grenadier

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Folks, I'm simply going to ask that you keep it civil.

Remember, you do have some leeway when it comes to attacking the message, but attacking the messenger is forbidden.
 

MI_martialist

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Of course there is a huge gap in understanding...is that not what I have been saying?

Have you been around karate much? There is a huge gap in knowledge about the kata bunkai. Most people have no idea what anything means other than performing basic kihon in different combinations on different directions and vectors.
 

Gerry Seymour

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Most of this simply because I posted that karate includes, and in fact is comprised of, weaponry / percussion / grappling. Amazing what happens when one if afraid to take the blinders of style and "what we do and do not do" off. Take them off, see martial movement for what it is...it is common to all "styles", systems, methods, schools...there are definitely some peculiarities to each, but if you look at the similarities, look at the core...the core moving the core...there are core fundamentals that do not belong to "style", they belong to the human mechanism. If you see these movements, poses, postures, bases, etc., clearly and with a core, basic mind, you see the equal use of weaponry / percussion / grappling.

Sorry you don't want to see it...it is life optimizing!!!
I remind you that you were the one who originally applied that statement to styles. I don't think many people would argue that the movements can't cross-over, and that martial studies can/do involve all three. But there are plenty of styles that do not.
 

MI_martialist

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To follow this to logical conclusion...Ok,they did not know so it could not be studied. On the other hand, most of the martial artists know but choose to ignore the study and remain bonded in their training.

No, but it does mean that Engineering didn't include Electrical Engineering.
 

Tez3

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To follow this to logical conclusion...Ok,they did not know so it could not be studied. On the other hand, most of the martial artists know but choose to ignore the study and remain bonded in their training.

and this would the study of what exactly or is this one of those big martial arts secrets we have to pay someone to 'teach' us?
 

Gerry Seymour

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To follow this to logical conclusion...Ok,they did not know so it could not be studied. On the other hand, most of the martial artists know but choose to ignore the study and remain bonded in their training.
You're still missing the point. Nobody is saying those things can't be studied. But you made the claim that every style of Karate includes all three in equal measure. That is patently untrue.
 

Fuhrer Drumpf

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You're still missing the point. Nobody is saying those things can't be studied. But you made the claim that every style of Karate includes all three in equal measure. That is patently untrue.

Classical karate was influenced by tegume wrestling. Modern karate became a sport and most schools ignore the full range of karate.
 

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