Kara-Ho Kenpo?

[Kempo Guy]

do you still practice karaho with your instructor ????

If you are referring to Sam Kuoha's Kara Ho, then no. Although once in a great while I get together with a couple of guys who still are affiliated with them.

If you're asking about my 'other' teacher, then my answer is.... sometimes. He has officially stopped teaching and occasionally we get together and work on some things so they don't get forgotten. Sort of keeping Professor's legacy alive...

KG

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by Kempo Guy
If you are referring to Sam Kuoha's Kara Ho, then no. Although once in a great while I get together with a couple of guys who still are affiliated with them.

If you're asking about my 'other' teacher, then my answer is.... sometimes. He has officially stopped teaching and occasionally we get together and work on some things so they don't get forgotten. Sort of keeping Professor's legacy alive...

KG

your "other" teacher teachs "karaho" SOMETIMES ??? Sorry if i ask too much.

it's too bad to hear your "other" teacher stops teaching but it is a good news to hear you still learn SOMETIMES

 

[Kempo Guy]

No worries.

My "other" teacher doesn't teach Kara Ho (as it is a trademarked name by Sam Kuoha / Kwai Sun company). And he doesn't really teach at all...

What I meant by occasionally getting together is this.
Some of the old students (including our teacher) get together around holidays (fourth of July, Thanksgiving etc.) and talk stories. Most of us are still involved in martial arts and inevitably we revert back to the common thread "Kempo". So we'll take the form (ironically the form is called Kwai Sun although it is completely different than Sam's Kara Ho version) and start pulling out applications (ie techniques) etc.

We all try to preserve what we can and our teacher has passed on everything he's been taught to a couple of the students who will carry it on...

KG

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by Kempo Guy


So we'll take the form (ironically the form is called Kwai Sun although it is completely different than Sam's Kara Ho version) and start pulling out applications (ie techniques) etc.

We all try to preserve what we can and our teacher has passed on everything he's been taught to a couple of the students who will carry it on...

KG

it's an interesting way of learning thing.

good luck with your learning and i hope you find what you are looking for

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Kempo Guy,

i see you learn "ninja" system too. How is it ???

 

[Kempo Guy]

CoolKempoDude,

Thanks...
I've moved away from Kempo and train primarily in traditional Japanese MA.

As for "ninja", I actually wrote Neijia, which means Chinese "internal" martial arts. I've trained in Tai Ji, Xing Yi and a little Ba Gua for the past five years (I still practice Tai Ji).
And I was training in Systema until recently (my instructor stopped teaching due to other commitments)...

KG

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Kempo Guy,

i forgot to task you this question.

what your "other" teacher calls his Art ? professor's art?

Also,

how do you know which techniques you suppose to learn when you are at a certain rank in this system?

thanks

 

[Kempo Guy]

CKD,

My teacher just calls it Kempo. We used to call it Kara Ho but received some friction due to the copyrights etc. Between us, the students, we use the terms interchangably...

As for rank... well, we didn't really pay that much attention to those things. There were no specific technique requirement for the senior students. However, for the lower grades my teacher created forms that were pulled out of the "Kwai Sun" form. They were progressive, but I never really learned all of them... I was taught the KS form first and was never really initiated to the other forms he created.

When I left Kara Ho (Kuoha's organization) I was only a green belt (received it from Sam at his home). A year or two later my teacher gave me a sash and asked me to teach. So I assisted him with teaching for a couple of years (along with another senior student). So I figured when I left (after about seven years of training) I was at about a Shodan (1st degree BB) level. Please also keep in mind that I had been doing various martial arts for 12 or so years prior to starting Kempo, which may have contributed to advancement.

So in other words rank was not an issue. Quite contrary to most other styles of Kempo, we didn't have techniques we HAD to learn. It was more like how well do you know the one FORM and how well you understood the principles contained within it. We also had other two man drills as well as multiple opponent drills along with sparring. In addition to this conditioning was a HUGE part of training as I mentioned earlier.

KG

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Kempo Guy,

thank you for sharing that to me. As you can see, i dont know much about Karaho. Your information is certainly good to know if you are NOT in Parker's system.

Hopefully, you will eventually learn the truth of karaho which your "other" teacher shows you SOMETIMES.

I don't know how long you will reach to this goal even though you learn it SOMETIMES.

In the future, please drop us a line if you advance your "other" teacher KEMPO.

if you have any pic or video, please post it here so that everybody can see "KEMPO"

by the way, how long have you studied your "other" teacher KEMPO ?

and

DO you learn your "other" teacher KEMPO in Southern California or Hawaii if you don't mind me to ask you that?? ( don't need to get into details )

 

[Kempo Guy]

Hi.

My teacher doesn't reveal anything "new" to us anymore... but there are new things revealed to us through training. Although I no longer train in Kempo, I do practice what I have learned (I distinguish between training & practice).

I don't personally think there are any "truths" to be found. Prof. Chow's Kempo was evolving constantly (or so I was told) and at the end only taught a few forms along with the drills mentioned.
I do think that many of the lines (who claim direct lineage) have diluted Prof. Chow's Kempo beyond recognition as I believe there are certain characteristics that bear the trademark of Professor's style (there's a reason he was called "Thunderbolt Chow").

I don't really have any video footage of us doing Kempo, but perhaps next time we get together I'll see if I can take some footage.

I trained with my teacher for roughly 7 years, and we got in touch with Prof. Chow's students at the tail end of my first year although he had made contact with people here on the mainland prior to that, as well as making a few trips to Hawaii when Professor was still alive.

And finally, yes, I was training in Kempo in So. Cal. although we'd make field trips to Hawaii.

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by Kempo Guy


I do think that many of the lines (who claim direct lineage) have diluted Prof. Chow's Kempo beyond recognition as I believe there are certain characteristics that bear the trademark of Professor's style (there's a reason he was called "Thunderbolt Chow").

I absolutely agree. It happens every where. It is really a sad thing

did you go to Japan to test for your black belt in "ninja" system ????

 

[Kempo Guy]

I absolutely agree. It happens every where. It is really a sad thing

Yes it is... and you're right, it happens in almost every system.

did you go to Japan to test for your black belt in "ninja" system ????

Per my previous post, I do not study a 'ninja system'. I have studied Neijia, i.e. Tai Ji, Xing Yi and Ba Gua (and also had the opportunity to train in Taiwan a couple of years ago for a couple of weeks). We don't have any rank in these systems (that I know of).

If you are referring to my Koryu Bujutsu, then no, we don't use this type of a grading system (Kyu/Dan system), but rather menkyo system (lisence). And no, I have not received any menkyo so far.

I did however receive my Shodan (1st degree BB) in Jujutsu in Japan, as well as my sankyu and nikyu (brown belt) gradings in Kyokushinkai Karate while there (I lived there in '89 - '90).

KG

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Kempo Guy,

you are a traveler heh?

it seems to me that you have your hand nearly all MA systems in the world

impressive resume

 

[Kempo Guy]

Yes, I've had the opportunity to travel and live in various parts of the world (for better or worse). This has forced me to switch systems more often than I would have liked. Don't be too impressed with my "resume" as I'm not all that skilled in any of them. Unfortunately I'm suffering from the "jack of all trades, master of none" syndrome... I've had a taste of many things but nothing that I could call substantial.

For the most part I just enjoy training and am not overly concerned with rank or systems these days. Although there are systems I would like to investigate further, especially traditional Jujutsu and also Silat Serak (I know, it's a weird combo). I don't think I will ever get the chance to study both systems, and I'd be more than thrilled if the opportunity arose where I could study one of them along with my Koryu studies.

KG

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Kempo guy,

sometimes, we don't know what we want. Many of us choose second MA style as our PRIMARY art after learning FIRST.

Do not feel bad.

I'm glad you find what you like to study after having a general education.

i wish you all the best in your MA journey. Of course, please let us know if you finally achieve your goal.

if you have more info in your "other" KEMPO, let me know as well

 

[Mark L]

Originally posted by Kempo Guy
No worries.

So we'll take the form (ironically the form is called Kwai Sun although it is completely different than Sam's Kara Ho version) and start pulling out applications (ie techniques) etc.

We all try to preserve what we can and our teacher has passed on everything he's been taught to a couple of the students who will carry it on...

KG

.

Originally posted by Kempo Guy
Sort of keeping Professor's legacy alive...

KG

.

KG,

The curriculum I study has elements of Sam Kuoha's Kara Ho. To date I've learned Kwai Sun and Kata Set 2. I'm wondering how different these forms and the techniques within them are from what Prof. Chow taught?

Of course I recognize that one man's art will likely never be a carbon copy of anothers. My Kempo isn't exactly like that of my instructor. I practice what he teaches and move in similar ways given similar circumstances, but I'm not him. A good analogy: I have twin sons and people often ask if they are identical. My reply is "No, but they sure do look like brothers." How similar is Sam Kuoha's Kara Ho and Prof. Chow's Kara Ho?

 

[Kempo Guy]

I'm wondering how different these forms and the techniques within them are from what Prof. Chow taught?

The forms (Set 2 and Kwai Sun and Hoshi for that matter) are VERY different from the two forms I've been privvy to witness and learn (I only learned one of these forms). As far as I know, the two forms (actually I believe there were three) were taught without any changes from what Prof. Chow taught up to his passing.

As Sam Kuoha was a student of Professor there are elements of Professor's style throughtout the system. However, he has expanded the curriculum to something that is not quite recognizable...

The form I was taught was performed in a straight line and you only turned when you ran out of space.

How similar is Sam Kuoha's Kara Ho and Prof. Chow's Kara Ho?

The primary differences I've seen are in in the number of forms, techniques etc. that Sam Kuoha teaches vs. what Professor taught. Also the high kicks, spinning maneuvers (like the sweeps) were not taught either.

Prof. Chow didn't seem to focus on techniques in the sense that he did not have specific responses to an attacks like Kuoha's 'basic', 'advanced', 'grab arts' techniques etc. The techniques and the principles were taught within the forms. The form did have a 'basic' application that were taught to beginning students as the form was in essence a two man set. Once learned it was encouraged to look within the form for 'other' applications and principles.

Finally I'd like to mention that we were taught a lot of two-man drills as well as conditioning.

Hope this helps,
KG

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Mark L,

do you study KARAHO ( sam's style) or nick cerio kenpo?

 

[Mark L]

Originally posted by CoolKempoDude
Mark L,

do you study KARAHO ( sam's style) or nick cerio kenpo?

Actually, both. Our core curiculum is Cerio with all the pinans, katas, combinations, punch techniques, etc. Blended with that are the Kara Ho forms and line techniques. And so we don't get bored, there's BJJ and pressure point applications for all of the above. It's quite a bit of material and, truthfully, I'm having a hard time keeping up as I prepare for that 'big' test.

How about you, what do you study?

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by Mark L
Actually, both. Our core curiculum is Cerio with all the pinans, katas, combinations, punch techniques, etc. Blended with that are the Kara Ho forms and line techniques. And so we don't get bored, there's BJJ and pressure point applications for all of the above. It's quite a bit of material and, truthfully, I'm having a hard time keeping up as I prepare for that 'big' test.

How about you, what do you study?

Nothing really.