Kara-Ho Kenpo?

[Kempo Guy]

CoolKempoDude,

I have not seen Steven do the techniques. However, I have seen pics. Also, many people in Hawaii will attest to his skill. Several people including the late Marino Tiwanak told me about him.

KG

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by Kempo Guy


The training is quite severe.

what kind of training a student has to go through to be considered SEVERE?

example will be nice

ALSO, You mentioned about Bill Chun in your post. what is Bill Chun's style about ???

you have more info about this style ?

thanks

 

[CoolKempoDude]

John Bishop,

your kempo system (kajukenpo) comes from Bill Chun's style ???

i guess your system is somewhat similar to bill chun's style???? if so, how similar ???

thanks

 

[lonekimono]

I thank you john for letting me know about that,
i met sam awhile back here in new jersey but again i thank you

 

[John Bishop]

Cool Kenpo Dude:

"Ka-ju-ken-bo" is a combination system of the arts of Tang Soo Do Karate, Jujitsu, judo, Kenpo, and Chinese Boxing (Sil-lum Pai kung fu).
The heart of the system is Kenpo Karate. Techniques from the other 4 styles such as karate kicks, judo throws, jujitsu joint locks, and circular kung fu techniques are added to the Kenpo to enhance it's self defense qualities. There are also techniques from western boxing and Filipino Escrima in the system.
There were originally 5 founders of Kajukenbo, one representing each of the 5 systems.
The Kenpo Karate stylist was Adriano Emperado. Sijo (founder) Emperado was William Chow's first black belt and went up to 5th degree with Prof. Chow. Emperado first started training with Chow in 1946.
SGM Ed Parker started training with Prof. Chow around 1949.
Bill Chun Sr. trained with Prof. Chow in the late 50s or early 60s. There is no connection between Kajukenbo and the Goshin Jutsu Kai Kenpo that Bill Chun Sr. taught other than the fact that they were both students of Prof. Chow.


William Chow's School 1949

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by John Bishop


The Kenpo Karate stylist was Adriano Emperado.

does Adriano Emperado have a brother named John ?????

 

[Pacificshore]

I believe his brother's name was Joe.

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by Pacificshore
I believe his brother's name was Joe.

thank you for clarifying. I read an article from C.H.A 3 which mentioned Adriana's brother

 

[John Bishop]

The picture is real old and faded, but Adriano Emperado is on Prof. Chow's right, and Joe Emperado is on Prof. Chow's left.

 

[Kempo Guy]

Mr. Bishop,

Are the sub-systems (for lack of a better word) still prevalent within Kajukenbo?

If they still are then how does the Kempo-branch of the Kajukenbo differ from the CHA-3 system of Prof. Tiwanak?


CoolKempoDude,

They were referring to broken bones and such. Also their practice were done full-contact with no 'pads' etc. This includes sparring and technique work. You were expected to defend yourself at all cost... Also the calisthenic portions are quite hard and most Mcdojo students would not be able to complete the warm-ups.
(As a side note, I believe it was this type of training that allowed Shihan Bobby Lowe to excel in Kyokushinkai Karate (or Oyama Karate as it was called at the time).

As for Bill Chun's style, I have seen very little. Not enough to provide a comparison. I will say this, the few techniques I was shown were done a little more upright than what I was used to, however very similar to some of the applications we were shown out of the forms...

As Mr. Bishop stated the style of Bill Chun was Goshin Jutsu Kai Kenpo. He "inherited" this style from Chow, and later Chow created what is now known as Kara Ho. My impression is that the style taught to Bill Chun was still heavily influenced by Mitose in terms of technique and application... but I may be completely off base.

Kara Ho from what I have come to understand is based more on Chow's Chinese MA experience and an eclectic approach in finding the essence of 'street fighting'. From what I've been told, he spent a lot of time with Okazaki Sensei of Danzan Ryu and his brother John Chow-Hoon, who was a student of Okazaki Sensei. Prof. Chow also spent time investigating Lua through this connection as well (as Okazaki Sensei apparantly investigated Lua at his dojo). We can't forget all the "field testing" done by his students either...
Perhaps Mr. Bishop can substantiate some of these claims???

KG

 

[John Bishop]

Kempo Guy:

The Kajukenbo branches or subsystems are still prevelent. The 4 accepted branches of Kajukenbo are the :Original Kenpo Karate, Chuan Fa, Tum Pai, and Won Hop Kuen Do.
Within some of these 4 branches are methods. In the Chuan Fa branch are the Gaylord Method, and the Ramos Method.
Within the Won Hop Kuen Do branch is the Fi Kuen method, and Fut Sao Kuen Do method.
Off shoots or breakaways from Kajukenbo would be Karazempo Goshin Jutsu, Universal Kempo, Nick Cerio's Kenpo, Kenkabo, Ken Ka Kung Fu, and many forms of Hawaiian Kenpo.
I have not seen a lot of the CHA-3 techniques, but have heard that they are very close to the original method, and that they use some of the Kajukenbo katas. The late Marino Tiwanak was Sijo Emperado's first black belt. And he also trained with Prof. Chow and Woodrow McCandless (a Kenpo Jujitsu black belt under Thomas Young).
Your impressions about Prof. Chow are consistant with many things I've been told by some of the old timers. Both Wally Jay and Sig Kufferath said that Chow would often come to the Okizaki dojo to watch his brother John Chow-Hoon train. A little known fact is that at one time James Mitose rented space at the Okizaki dojo, so his students were probably exposed to some Danzan Ryu jujitsu. And Okizaki was one of the very few non-Hawaiians to have been taught Lua, having received instruction from David Kainhee.
I have met Bill Chun Jr. at some Kajukenbo get togethers in Northern Calif., but I have never really seen the Goshin Jutsu Kai techniques he and his father taught.

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by John Bishop


I have met Bill Chun Jr. at some Kajukenbo get togethers in Northern Calif.

Bill Chun Jr and Kajukenbo have a good relationship. I see Bill Chun Jr appear more at your Kajukenbo places.

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by Kempo Guy

As for Bill Chun's style, the few techniques I was shown were done a little more upright than what I was used to, however very similar to some of the applications we were shown out of the forms...

what do you mean "more upright" ???? examples pls ?

thank you very much

 

[John Bishop]

Originally posted by CoolKempoDude
Bill Chun Jr and Kajukenbo have a good relationship. I see Bill Chun Jr appear more at your Kajukenbo places.

Most of the old Kenpo and Kajukenbo people are close, since we share a common root and the Hawaiian feeling of Ohana (family).

 

[Kempo Guy]

Mr. Bishop,

Thanks for your explanation in regards to the "branches" of Kajukenbo. I've only had experience with the Tum Pai branch, and I guess the CHA-3 branch if you can call it a branch...
I've also had the opportunity to work out with some guys from Karazenpo as well as Bill Ryusaki's school. All different, but the same...


CoolKempoDude,

I agree with Mr. Bishop. The feeling of Ohana seems to be prevalent with most of the old-school Kempo guys. I remember the first time I had the opportunity to "train" with Prof. Tiwanak, we were in someone's backyard drinking beer and breaking bricks. Then he would proceed to demo techniques on us. Fun, yet very intimidating. He told us that everyone should train while under the influence as it's good training (I'm not sure if it was in jest...)

"What do I mean with more upright"...
Well, I guess if you can picture Jack Johnson's (the boxing legend) style versus Mike Tyson's... perhaps it's a bad analogy.
It's hard to explain. There was heavy use of 'low-line' attacks, staying tight (very boxing like). Imagine responding to someone's attack (let's say a cross) by dropping your weight angling off slightly to the side and attack his floating ribs with a uppercut/hook type punch. When I say dropping your weight, I mean getting into a low-stance that will put you "under the attacker's arm", hence there's no need for blocking and by angling out you won't have to worry about a knee/kick from the attacker's lead leg. I'm not sure if you can picture this...

KG

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by Kempo Guy


When I say dropping your weight, I mean getting into a low-stance that will put you "under the attacker's arm", hence there's no need for blocking and by angling out you won't have to worry about a knee/kick from the attacker's lead leg.

i understand what you mean.

your description is like basic technique 1 of karaho ( sam's style ) if i'm not mistaken

 

[Kempo Guy]

Not quite...
Basic 1 (at least the one I learned) you were still in a "horse stance" when executing the first punch. However the second strike, which was like a left hook, is more like the entry I experienced except you kept really low in your stance.

I neglected to mention that once inside you try to take the guy down, i.e. by any means necessary. A lot of grabbing, breaking, sweeping etc. but nothing as fancy as Sam's stuff. Also you never kick above the waist, nor were there any spinning maneuvers (kicks, strikes etc) shown...

There's also the rapid fire striking which is a Kempo trademark but only as an entry.

KG

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by Kempo Guy
Not quite...
Basic 1 (at least the one I learned) you were still in a "horse stance" when executing the first punch. However the second strike, which was like a left hook, is more like the entry I experienced except you kept really low in your stance.

KG

In basic 1 ( same's style ), you also strike the guy's groin and finish your move with a kick

 

[Kempo Guy]

Yes, I was merely commenting on the first punch or "entry" if you will. Going on the inside of the punch with a straight punch while dropping into a horse... the of course there's the left hook, groin strike, elbow, hammerfist and finish with a kick...

It is what it is....
Perhaps a better example would have been the first movement of "Kwai Sun" after the salute. This is the type of entry I'm talking about.

KG

 

[CoolKempoDude]

Originally posted by Kempo Guy

Perhaps a better example would have been the first movement of "Kwai Sun" after the salute. This is the type of entry I'm talking about.

KG

do you still practice karaho with your instructor ????