Akashiro Tamaya
Green Belt
Great Clips Marginal, Thanks for sharing....Love the flag !
Joe Rogan's TKD comment
- Thread starter shane23ss
- Start date
Could someone direct me to a website that gives a sylabus or basic overline of a MA or MMA that many would consider street effective?
Or perhaps give us an outline of what is done in the average class of a MA/MMA that is considered "street effective" Exercises, drills, basics, etc.
I just want something to compare my training against and I want to see what I am missing and why I would get my *** pounded in the octagon against most other people. I am being serious. People constantlly tell me that TKD sucks or that it wouldn't last in a ring, even in a kick boxing-only ring, and I want to know what others do that I don't.
Or perhaps give us an outline of what is done in the average class of a MA/MMA that is considered "street effective" Exercises, drills, basics, etc.
I just want something to compare my training against and I want to see what I am missing and why I would get my *** pounded in the octagon against most other people. I am being serious. People constantlly tell me that TKD sucks or that it wouldn't last in a ring, even in a kick boxing-only ring, and I want to know what others do that I don't.
- Thread Starter
- #23
It should be pretty obvious to most people that the UFC has shifted toward MMA fighters. The UFC went through several phases. The first phase was everyone's own systems. Pretty much everyone (Strikers/Grapplers/Ground and Pound) had a chance at winning. Then the Gracie's started to dominate. Everyone then rushed to get a ground game. Once this happened, the ones who had less of a ground game rushed to find ways to counter. Now, the UFC is made up of mostly Boxers with wrestling ability. I would say it will probably shift again some time in the future. Right now is just not the time for someone is almost a 100% a stand up striker.
Yeti
Black Belt
Cool video. But the TKD guy was a bit sloppy in that he seemed fixated on scoring a knockout blow with a spinning hook kick, but passed on several opportunities to score a serious roundhouse kick to the other guy's ribs.
K1 is mixed martial arts. It just happens to be mixed striking arts.Kumbajah said:
That aside, I don't see the point of the comment. Everyone already knows that TKD's a striking system. If it's going to be weighed, it has to be weighed vs other striking systems.
Adept
Master Black Belt
Well, I dont know about street effective (I dont really consider most MMA training to be really street effective either) but as far as the octagon goes -Shu2jack said:
Well versed in both take-downs and take-down defense. When that 250 pound guy shoots for your legs, what are you going to do?
Get into and out of the guard, utilise the guard, and both control and excape control when on the ground. The same 250 pound guy is sitting on your chest and slowly turning your face into powder. How do you get him off?
Well versed in submissions. Someone is putting you in a figure four armlock. What is the best way to get out of it? What are you going to do if they put you in a rear naked choke?
Well versed in strikes, which I obviously don't need to elaborate on here.
The key ingredient is to train with resisting live opponents. No amount of saying 'Oh, I can deal with that' Is going to prepare you for what it really feels like to have someone trying to twist your arm out of its socket.
Miles
Senior Master
It is unfortunate, if in your experience (whatever that may be), you have found that the majority of schools teaching TKD to be unrealistic or not self-defense oriented. It is even more unfortunate if Mr. Rogan (isn't he the Fear Factor guy? I don't watch that show either) said something negative on television.Sharp Phil said:
The art does not make the man (or woman), rather, the man (or woman) makes the art.
Miles
Miles
Senior Master
Thank you for your honesty, Adept. FWIW, (nothing actuallyAdept said:
I agree with you totally about the need for "resisting live opponents." Miles
glad2bhere
Master Black Belt
You know, I have to wonder at somebody who would make a statement like that. I mean, where would you draw the line, right? OK, so I am a teacher. Guess what--- as a teacher UFC is pretty much useless! How about if I was an auto mechanic? UFC? Pretty much useless! How about a champion Chess player of the World? UFC? Pretty much useless. My point is that there are folks who have trained their whole lives in TKD, have never been in a fight and probably never will. What are you going to tell them--- that their wentire lives were useless? I will probably never duel anyone with a sword or carry one on a battlefield. So am I to construe my training in Kum-Bup is "useless"?
I don't care much for TKD but I am not going to tell somebody what they do is useless. From what I can tell from the openning comment to this thread it sounds like more of the usual narcissistic garbage one can come to expect from someone who has no room in his life for anyone but himself. In such cases it seems like whatever is "not him" is useless. FWIW.
Best Wishes,
Bruce
I don't care much for TKD but I am not going to tell somebody what they do is useless. From what I can tell from the openning comment to this thread it sounds like more of the usual narcissistic garbage one can come to expect from someone who has no room in his life for anyone but himself. In such cases it seems like whatever is "not him" is useless. FWIW.
Best Wishes,
Bruce
Kumbajah
Purple Belt
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Marginal said:
My point was he (Joe) was commenting on a MMA/UFC event which incorporates more than just striking. Most people view MMA as almost a style to itself, grappling and striking. I'm not trying to argue Joe's position - but other than in a striking tourneyment will you find yourself in a strickly striking situation. So saying that it has to be judged by other striking arts is a false premise. TKD can be effective in a SD situation - every MA can.
Brian
hardheadjarhead
Senior Master
shane23ss said:
For that kind of fighting, he's absolutely right.
Don't get me wrong here. TKD has its place in self defense and as an Olympic style sport, but as an art it won't survive in an MMA setting.
Regards,
Steve
hardheadjarhead
Senior Master
Marginal said:
Uhhh...BJJ in the early days of the UFC. I'd count that. Granted, the game passed it by, but it had its moment...and its impact.
Regards,
Steve
FearlessFreep
Senior Master
Just some random thoughts this morning but one of the things that strikes me, no pun intended, about striking arts vs other approaches is that strking affects the body differently. A shot to the ribs I think is easier to shrug off or work past then having your arm twisted out of shape. Unless that shot is *very* hard.
I think MichiganTKD brought up in another thread recently about the difference in trainging TKD for sport vs combat and I was wondering what he had in mind and something that came to mind was in the difference of power and difference and movement. In a real fight, someone's probably not going to stand outside and wait for an opening and use feints and false attacks to get you to open up. You can't count on someone throwing a rear-leg roundhouse that you can evade and counter strike, etc... On the other hand, if you strike, you need to strike *hard*. Not hard enough to jar him but hard enough to really shake them or put them *down*. Sparring TKD doesn't work like that. The rules are such that you score by hitting the hogu or head hard enough for the judge to notice, but not really to disable or incapitate the opponent. Since the rules are such and both sides work in those rules, certain strategies and tactics develop, and training works as such. If you are training for a TKD tournament, you are not really training for "guy bull rushes you with his arms to grab you, put him down before he gets you in his grasp" because that's not a part of TKD sparring so you don't train for it. If you were training for combat you might be thinking "side kick (or roundhouse) to the knee *hard* enough to break it" or 'front kick to the stomach or groin to get him over then a knee to the face" Evasions and counters are going to be different depending on someone playing by 'sparring' rules and someone playing by 'street' rules. But mostly, in sparring you hit hard enough to score, in self defense you need to hit hard enough to bring down.
So that's why I think TKD sparrers really wouldn't or don't fare well in MMA style tournaments. They are probably usually not used to having to fight someone who will come in and grab and they are not used to having to kick someone hard enough to keep them away. This is not a problem with TKD so much as just a reflection that people that train heavily for sparring train for certain tactics, and against opponents who don't use those tactics, it's very difficult.
I think MichiganTKD brought up in another thread recently about the difference in trainging TKD for sport vs combat and I was wondering what he had in mind and something that came to mind was in the difference of power and difference and movement. In a real fight, someone's probably not going to stand outside and wait for an opening and use feints and false attacks to get you to open up. You can't count on someone throwing a rear-leg roundhouse that you can evade and counter strike, etc... On the other hand, if you strike, you need to strike *hard*. Not hard enough to jar him but hard enough to really shake them or put them *down*. Sparring TKD doesn't work like that. The rules are such that you score by hitting the hogu or head hard enough for the judge to notice, but not really to disable or incapitate the opponent. Since the rules are such and both sides work in those rules, certain strategies and tactics develop, and training works as such. If you are training for a TKD tournament, you are not really training for "guy bull rushes you with his arms to grab you, put him down before he gets you in his grasp" because that's not a part of TKD sparring so you don't train for it. If you were training for combat you might be thinking "side kick (or roundhouse) to the knee *hard* enough to break it" or 'front kick to the stomach or groin to get him over then a knee to the face" Evasions and counters are going to be different depending on someone playing by 'sparring' rules and someone playing by 'street' rules. But mostly, in sparring you hit hard enough to score, in self defense you need to hit hard enough to bring down.
So that's why I think TKD sparrers really wouldn't or don't fare well in MMA style tournaments. They are probably usually not used to having to fight someone who will come in and grab and they are not used to having to kick someone hard enough to keep them away. This is not a problem with TKD so much as just a reflection that people that train heavily for sparring train for certain tactics, and against opponents who don't use those tactics, it's very difficult.
N
nekoTKD
Guest
Not to hijack the thread or anything, but what exactly is allowed in UFC? Can you smack them as hard as you want or what? I've never really watched it, so I don't know.
Thanks,
Brandon
Thanks,
Brandon
