Japanese terms for rank ?

[Brother John]

Where does a neophyte go to learn the trad/Japanese names for ranks?
I read "Godan" and "Yondan"...
and they don't mean much except that the person is at least a black belt.

Thanks
Your Brother
John

 

[arnisador]

Those are terms for 5th and 4th degree black belt, respectively.

One typically sees for mudansha (underbelts) and yudansha (black belt holders), starting from white belt (10th kyu) through 10th dan:

J(y)ukyu
K(y)ukyu
Hachikyu
S(h)ichikyu
Rok(k)yu
Gok(k)yu
Yonkyu
Sankyu
Nik(k)yu
Ik(k)yu

Shodan
Nidan
Sandan
Yondan
Godan
Rokudan
S(h)ichidan
Hachidan
K(y)udan
J(y)udan

The parentheses mean sometimes I see that letter, sometimes I don't. I have my own rpeferences. You'll also see Shidan for 4th degree black belt. Ordinarily that would be right (as I understand the matter), but it forms an unfortunate image of death so the alternate form Yondan is used.

I don't know how it's done in Ninjutsu, which in addition goes up to 15th dan. technically Judo goes to 12th dan but in practice only through 10th dan is used.


Additionally, there's a whole set of honorary terms, like shihan and hanshi, that high-ranking black belts in some Japanese arts are eligible to be awarded. Some arts also don't go all the way to 10th dan, e.g. Naginata-do. (See also this post.) Many traditional arts don't use the dan/kyu system developed for Judo at all, but rather the menkyo (license) system.

 

[Brother John]

Thank you so much, Guro.
As always... helpful.

Your brother
John

 

[Cthulhu]

I posted something with ranks and titles I pulled from some book or another a while back here:

http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=3298#post3298

Cthulhu

 

[Brother John]

Cool.
That has even more.
thanks

Your Brother
John

 

[arnisador]

Hopefully a ninjutsu practitioner will give us a list of their 15 black belt ranks and any associated titles!

 

[pknox]

Originally posted by arnisador
You'll also see Shidan for 4th degree black belt. Ordinarily that would be right (as I understand the matter), but it forms an unfortunate image of death so the alternate form Yondan is used.

I do remember a karate instructor I knew from Japan, who when counting out basics or calisthenics, would simply skip over four (he'd do it, but just not say it). When I eventually asked him why, he said that 4 was "a very unlucky number." After I knew him a while, he explained the fact that it connoted death as well. Evidently, this extends to other Asian countries besides Japan - I was also told how some phone companies in Asia were having problems, because nobody wanted multiple 4's in their telephone numbers. Kind of reminds me of the fear of the western number 13, and many high buildings simply skip that floor number.

 

[pknox]

Originally posted by arnisador
Hopefully a ninjutsu practitioner will give us a list of their 15 black belt ranks and any associated titles!

Here are the official ranks and titles used in the Bujinkan:

Kyu grades:
--------------
10th kyu - Mukyu (no rank - not used in all dojo)
9th kyu - Kyuykyu (1st official "Bujinkan rank')
8th kyu - Hachikyu
7th kyu - Nanakyu
6th kyu - Rokkyu
5th kyu - Gokyu
4th kyu - Yonkyu
3rd kyu - Sankyu
2nd kyu - Nikyu
1st kyu - Ikkyu

Dan Grades:
----------------
The dan ranks are divided into three general levels -

1st through 5th Dan - "Heaven" or "Ten"
1st Dan - Shodan (Shidoshi Ho)
2nd Dan - Nidan (Shidoshi Ho)
3rd Dan - Sandan (Shidoshi Ho)
4th Dan - Yondan (Shidoshi Ho)
5th Dan - Godan (Shidoshi)

6th through 10th Dan - "Earth" or "Chi"
6th Dan - Rokudan (Shidoshi)
7th Dan - Nanadan (Shidoshi)
8th Dan - Hachidan (Shidoshi)
9th Dan - Kudan (Shidoshi)
10th Dan - Judan (Shihan)

11th through 15th Dan - "Man" or "Jin"
11th Dan - Judan Chigyo Happo Biken (Shihan)
12th Dan - Judan Suigyo Happo Biken (Shihan)
13th Dan - Judan Kagyo Happo Biken (Shihan)
14th Dan - Judan Fugyo Happo Biken (Shihan)
15th Dan - Judan Kugyo Happo Biken (Shihan)

Notes:

- The numbers for 11th through 15th Dan are not really supposed to be used, but instead the titles, as they are actually all 10th dan ranks. That said, the numbers are often used for convenience's sake.

- Ranks at Godan and above are only administered by Soke Hatsumi.

- The Shidoshi title at Godan is not automatic - the earning of a Godan rank provides one the eligibility to receive it.

 

[Kreth]

Originally posted by pknox
The Shidoshi title at Godan is not automatic - the earning of a Godan rank provides one the eligibility to receive it.

And along with that, Shihan is not a given. The best quote I've ever heard on the subject came from Bud Malmstrom, "You're a Shihan when the other Shihan call you one." Personally, I would amend this to read Japanese Shihan.

Jeff

 

[pknox]

Originally posted by Kreth
And along with that, Shihan is not a given. The best quote I've ever heard on the subject came from Bud Malmstrom, "You're a Shihan when the other Shihan call you one." Personally, I would amend this to read Japanese Shihan.

Jeff

Excellent point, and I agree wholeheartedly. And I'm pretty sure there is no question that everybody calls Bud Shihan.