It was only a matter of time. McDojo vitcim beaten up

[JowGaWolf]

what did he answer?

I'll try to find out this week because I'm curious too.

 

[MAfreak]

what i'm wondering... mustn't such schools in the u.s. be in a federation and therefore coaches graduate under real commitees of their art?

 

[JowGaWolf]

Our pledge is more of a poem that we make kids remember

Respect the founders. Respect the teacher. Respect the teachings.
Learn kindness. Learn justice;then learn Kung Fu
After you learn Jow Ga Kung Fu you can protect yourself.
But if you are a hero, a true Kung Fu person, you won't abuse your power.
If you meet a student and you know he is an evil person, Then you would not teach him even for 10,000 pieces of gold.
And if he has no honor then you should not teach him even if he were your brother.
But if he has honor then you should teach him even if he is a stranger to you.
And after you learn the secret of Jow Ga Kung fu, even a piece of useless stone may become a piece of gold to you.

Kids learn this poem then we go over the meaning of it with them.

 

[JowGaWolf]

what i'm wondering... mustn't such schools in the u.s. be in a federation and therefore coaches graduate under real commitees of their art?

Unfortunately there is no governing standard for what makes a qualified instructor. For example, Jow Ga has one and no one can be a self proclaimed Sifu without the governing association fighting out about it. A guy named Ron Wheeler proclaimed himself as a Sifu and his reputation suffered because of it. Out side of Jow Ga people think he's great, but within the association student know not to learn anything from him. He's our black sheep of the system. I don't even know if Ron still teaches Jow Ga as a Sifu or if he now calls himself a coach instead.

Some Martial Art Associations are strict about who can be an teacher or instructor, while for others it's more about the commercialization of the system and to have as many schools open as possible even if the teacher isn't qualified. This means that some teachers may understand the application of techniques while others just know the technique and really couldn't tell you how to use them to defend yourself.

If I decide to come up with my own martial art then there is no one that can say that what I teach is actually realistic self-defense. I would be able to teach as horrible as I like so long as people give me money.

 

[kuniggety]

ok, i should have said good self defense training schools, not combat sports.

Karate and Krav Maga, which you originally mentioned, are no more or less of "combat sports" than the arts Andrew Green mentioned.

 

[MAfreak]

Karate and Krav Maga, which you originally mentioned, are no more or less of "combat sports" than the arts Andrew Green mentioned.

you don't get me. "our" karate style had a special focus on self defense training and also in the belt program one had to "spar" against multiple opponents. krav maga is described not being a sport.
logically olympic sports like boxing, wrestling and the like don't care about multiple attackers.

 

[crazydiamond]

I think it's easier for kids and it gets more difficult as we get older. Not many kids can take a punch so a good punch or kick to the stomach or face is enough to stop most kids. Notice how nothing comes back in return after being hit in the face. Being punched in the face or having the wind knock out of you for the first time is a big shock for most kids and is more than enough to stop the attack from that person. By the time we are adults we would have already experienced one of these 2 things if not both.

Well I had never been punched in the face, until I started Martial Arts at 49. It was a big shock. for me

But of course a good school would help you get somewhat prepared during light sparing and self defense simulations.

 

[WaterGal]

If the child is good nature and understand that what they are learning is only used to defend themselves, then there is no need to tell them not to hurt people. Teaching someone how to hurt people (which is what martial art techniques do) and then telling them not to hurt people sends mixed signals. Instead of saying not to hurt people, just say that they are only supposed to use it to defend themselves. And when they have to physically defend themselves then make sure it hurts. If I came to punch you in the face, then I'm pretty sure that you want your attacks to hurt me.

To be fair, though, not all kids have a good nature. Some are going to be right terrors, and part of the instructor's job unfortunately is to try to turn them into something better.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Well I had never been punched in the face, until I started Martial Arts at 49. It was a big shock. for me

But of course a good school would help you get somewhat prepared during light sparing and self defense simulations.

The first punch is always the worse. I don't think there's anything a person can say that will prepare someone from a good punch in the face or having the wind knocked out of you. Seeing a person getting the wind knocked out of them for the first time is entertaining, because the response is always like they are dying. However hits to the the face are not so entertaining even when they are light.

 

[JowGaWolf]

To be fair, though, not all kids have a good nature. Some are going to be right terrors, and part of the instructor's job unfortunately is to try to turn them into something better.

I worked with bad kids before and taught them self defense as well. For all the kids that were little monsters the behavior issues were a separate issue and I addressed those before teaching them anything of value. An aggressive kid is an aggressive kid no matter if they are learning a martial arts or not. They don't need martial arts to hit anyone. If I felt that the kid was too aggressive then I wouldn't teach them anything. Sort of like that poem stated. "If you meet a student and you know he is an evil person, Then you would not teach him even for 10,000 pieces of gold."

If a parent came to the school and I can tell the kid has aggression problems, then I'll be very honest with the parent and tell them that 1. I refuse to teach him because of his aggression, or 2. I'll work with him so he can better manage his aggression and that I won't be able to teach him much in terms of fighting until the aggression is under control.

There have been times where I was teaching a child who was fine one year and a monster the next. The day he turned into a monster is the day I stopped teaching him. For me I think an instructor goes out of his way to deal with a child who is overly aggressive. Sometimes those issues require some professional counseling and even medication. I don't think instructors should feel like they have to put up with children like that unless they think they can help improve the behavior. If they don't want to improve the behavior or can't improve it, then it's better to suggest that the kid seeks help from a professional that is better trained and has more resources to help the child.

My job as an instructor is to prove a safe place for student to train and learn and I can't do that if I'm worried that "little Bobby" is going to hit someone, out of the blue, in the head with a staff, or stab someone with a rubber knife, or sucker punch someone. Kids like that just make it dangerous for everyone.

 

[kuniggety]

you don't get me. "our" karate style had a special focus on self defense training and also in the belt program one had to "spar" against multiple opponents. krav maga is described not being a sport.
logically olympic sports like boxing, wrestling and the like don't care about multiple attackers.

Say what you mean then. I agree that it's good that your school focuses on self-defense. They have Krav Maga competitions. It's not the art that determines if it's self-defense or a combat sport, it's the school/practitioner.

 

[MAfreak]

where can i write my location in the profile? sometimes the language barrier seem to make me look like a retard haha.

 

[RTKDCMB]

Some Martial Art Associations are strict about who can be an teacher or instructor, while for others it's more about the commercialization of the system and to have as many schools open as possible even if the teacher isn't qualified.

This might make a good thread.

 

[WaterGal]

I worked with bad kids before and taught them self defense as well. For all the kids that were little monsters the behavior issues were a separate issue and I addressed those before teaching them anything of value. An aggressive kid is an aggressive kid no matter if they are learning a martial arts or not. They don't need martial arts to hit anyone. If I felt that the kid was too aggressive then I wouldn't teach them anything. Sort of like that poem stated. "If you meet a student and you know he is an evil person, Then you would not teach him even for 10,000 pieces of gold."

If a parent came to the school and I can tell the kid has aggression problems, then I'll be very honest with the parent and tell them that 1. I refuse to teach him because of his aggression, or 2. I'll work with him so he can better manage his aggression and that I won't be able to teach him much in terms of fighting until the aggression is under control.

There have been times where I was teaching a child who was fine one year and a monster the next. The day he turned into a monster is the day I stopped teaching him. For me I think an instructor goes out of his way to deal with a child who is overly aggressive. Sometimes those issues require some professional counseling and even medication. I don't think instructors should feel like they have to put up with children like that unless they think they can help improve the behavior. If they don't want to improve the behavior or can't improve it, then it's better to suggest that the kid seeks help from a professional that is better trained and has more resources to help the child.

My job as an instructor is to prove a safe place for student to train and learn and I can't do that if I'm worried that "little Bobby" is going to hit someone, out of the blue, in the head with a staff, or stab someone with a rubber knife, or sucker punch someone. Kids like that just make it dangerous for everyone.

You're totally right about that. Sometimes you do need to ask a student to leave or to get professional help, because their anger issues or bullying create an environment that's bad for the other students and teaching them martial arts will only allow them to hurt people more effectively.

But I think some schools don't want to turn any students away, because $$$. Or maybe they've bought into their own "martial arts for character development" hype and really believe that learning martial arts and hearing "don't fight" will have a transformative effect even on those kind of kids. (Not that studying martial arts isn't a good way for kids to learn things like self-discipline, leadership, perseverance, etc - but it's not a miracle cure for all behavior problems.)

 

[JP3]

A couple thoughts.....

1. If, and I do mean IF, the message is that you should not use your martial arts training to hurt people, ever, then why on earth would you be doing it? There are better methods to just become physically fit.

2. I disagree with the thought that one should never use their art to defend themselves from a street gang... imo that's what it is for, there are, as noted above, few more dangerous situations than having multiple opponents. Even if they start out not really trying to hurt, merely to intimidate, the mindset of the mob is right there at the back of the brainpan and needs to be considered.

This latter being said, perhaps the kid was using his skills merely to defeat the brunt of the attacks, reduce the damange he could potentially take, yet not inciting the escalation of a larger group of bully-thugs? If so, then good on that kid for handling the situation as well as could be expected.

 

[JowGaWolf]

A couple thoughts.....

1. If, and I do mean IF, the message is that you should not use your martial arts training to hurt people, ever, then why on earth would you be doing it? There are better methods to just become physically fit.

2. I disagree with the thought that one should never use their art to defend themselves from a street gang... imo that's what it is for, there are, as noted above, few more dangerous situations than having multiple opponents. Even if they start out not really trying to hurt, merely to intimidate, the mindset of the mob is right there at the back of the brainpan and needs to be considered.

This latter being said, perhaps the kid was using his skills merely to defeat the brunt of the attacks, reduce the damange he could potentially take, yet not inciting the escalation of a larger group of bully-thugs? If so, then good on that kid for handling the situation as well as could be expected.

From what I was told he didn't use any martial art skills nor made an attempt to fight back. My understanding is that they do Kata but don't train application.

 

[MAfreak]

My understanding is that they do Kata but don't train application.

this sucks...

 

[Chester Wright]

The sad reallity is that there are a lot of Martial Arts schools that practice only self perfection, which is all fine and good however it doesnt prepare you for actual combat. I dont care how many times you punch air or do forms it will not acclimate you to the trials of physical combat. To prepare for a fight your have to train your body for combat. Boxing, Muay Thai, Jiu Jitsu, Sambo, Wrestling, Judo or any art where actual contact is made is better suited for an actual altercation.

 

[Ironbear24]

That's not a mcdojo dude, that is what all sifu's/senseis tell their children students so they don't end up going around picking fights and becoming thugs. It sounds like the kid just took the message way too literally.

 

[Kenpoguy123]

Whys that a McDojo if the kid refused to fight back that's his fault no one else's