Age, Attractiveness, and Social Status

[lifewise]

I have been involved in martial arts most of my life. Over the years, I have witnessed a broad spectrum of student abilities and interests.

I understand it is next to impossible to demand the same thing from every student. We all have our strengths and weaknesses. However, doesn't it make sense that students who attend classes regularly several times a week, are devoted to the school, exhibit a positive attitude, help out with others, and who train hard each day, and retains their knowledge receive regular advancement? Isn't it is obvious that they are doing things to the best of their abilities if they do all this?

Most evenings I sit along side other parents and watch our children's class. (It is important to say this is NOT a McDojo, the instructor has great deal of integrity, and doesn't need the money for rent!) Since many of the parents know I am involved in martial arts myself, they often ask me questions they would not dare ask the instructors. A hot topic for parents deals with what is needed for advancement. Many parents see differences in the children (not necessarily boosting about their own either I have to add) and don't understand why some of the best / regulars are overlooked for advancement.

Just a "heads up" for those instructors out there... parents notice.

As an observer, you can't help but wonder if sometimes instructors use age, physical attractiveness, and social status in determining when people advance.


:asian:

 

[Touch Of Death]

As an observer, you can't help but wonder if sometimes instructors use age, physical attractiveness, and social status in determining when people advance.


:asian:

These are dynamic that are hard to seperate from our psyche. Does it happen? Sure. Is anybody doing it on purpose? No. Let me ask you this. Should an instructor ignore a low self esteem issue and promote that student anyway?

 

[jkn75]

As an observer, you can't help but wonder if sometimes instructors use age, physical attractiveness, and social status in determining when people advance.

If an instructor is promoting based on social status or physical attractiveness, run. Fast.

Age can be an issue, especially for black belts. I'm not sure of the number of threads where this is mentioned, but I know it's more than a few about junior black belts. So age can play a role in whether someone promotes and I don't think this is entirely bad. The material for certain ages may be different, also. In Kuk Sool, a couple sets are removed for the under Black curriculum for those 13 and under, but they have to learn all those techs when they promote. We also see the stories of those 50 plus who start MA and receive their black belt. Age can be an issue this way too.

Another way to look at it is as the instructor. He may be grouping people together so they are comfortable working with one another. There may be a set time that is required between belts to learn the new material. Some will get 'it' faster than others, some will be better now but may stay for a lifetime and some people who get 'it' fast may only stay for their black belt.

If there are regular tests and people promote when they should, those factors will be harder to see. If there is no automatic promotion those that do know more will move on and those that aren't as good, will have to wait until the next test.

In my experience those things never kept my instructors from killing me in class and the reason I'm where I am at in my training, is because of what I've done and the choices I've made, not those 3 factors.

 

[markulous]

That's why I don't like belts in martial arts. It brings up issues that normally wouldn't be there such as "Am I ready for my next belt?" "Why did he get that belt and I am stuck at this belt?" "This person is prejudice and won't promote me", etc etc. It in no way shape or form is a guide on how "good" someone is so I really see no point in it.

 

[Tony]

In my system it takes about 5 years to get to Black sash. I am still on blue and my next grading is soon. I see so many young kids already black belts but we should not mistake anyone of such a high rank for being invincible.
I actually want to feel as if I have earnt my next sash.
We were performing our forms last night. Being a senior grade I'm expected to better and have more knowledge. So there are no excuses! me and some of the senior grades had to perform one of the forms, then some 3 of the red and green sashes performed the same form and did it better then us. This is why I really need to work on my forms, but I find I have missed moves out and I have had people who are lower than me helping me. I don't mind because sometimes I will help them. Another thing is these people are able to ask more questions to the assistant instructor. And by the way we call our instructor by his first name and the assistant instructor by his first name too.
That doesn't mean to say we don't respect them, because we do and we still have to work hard and have discipline. I guess its something that my instructor prefers, but gradings we will definately call him Sifu!
It confuses the heck out of me when the 2 little kids who are black sashes try to help us because I think it is hard for them to relate to adults and they are communicating at a child's level or at least their age. Its so confusing be shown one thing and then another by someone else!
The thing is I don't mind how long it takes for me to get my black sash because I don't really have any aspirations to teach. I want to feel more confident in myself and my abilities before I can do that. I certainly do believe that every instructor ought to be able to put what they teach into practice if they need to.

 

[8253]

people shouldnt be promoted by social status at all, they should be promoted on skill and maturity of the mind

 

[wadowoman]

These are dynamic that are hard to seperate from our psyche. Does it happen? Sure. Is anybody doing it on purpose? No. Let me ask you this. Should an instructor ignore a low self esteem issue and promote that student anyway?

Definitely not, BUT should take the self esteem issue into account when explaining why they are not testing. A good instructor can find something possitive to say about every student that is trying and can encourage many that are not.
Sharon

 

[lifewise]

That's why I don't like belts in martial arts. It brings up issues that normally wouldn't be there such as "Am I ready for my next belt?" "Why did he get that belt and I am stuck at this belt?" "This person is prejudice and won't promote me", etc etc. It in no way shape or form is a guide on how "good" someone is so I really see no point in it.

The more I see, the more I favor the no belt approach. Unfortunately, too many schools have systems with as many belts as there are colours available.

 

[lifewise]

These are dynamic that are hard to seperate from our psyche. Does it happen? Sure. Is anybody doing it on purpose? No. Let me ask you this. Should an instructor ignore a low self esteem issue and promote that student anyway?

Wow, are we sure we want to talk self-esteem issues? :argue:

Sure there are some students that have self esteem issues, these are the students that are there because their parents or someone else's influence. Most beginners naturally have self-esteem issues to some extent aswell.

Keep in mind students who have self-esteem issues are not the ones that I have characterized here.

:asian:

 

[Touch Of Death]

Wow, are we sure we want to talk self-esteem issues? :argue:

Sure there are some students that have self esteem issues, these are the students that are there because their parents or someone else's influence. Most beginners naturally have self-esteem issues to some extent aswell.

Keep in mind students who have self-esteem issues are not the ones that I have characterized here.

:asian:

I beg to differ. I think all those things you mention play on a persons self esteem. A person from an higher social status, may have already jumped a few hurdles before they ever step foot in the school.
Sean

 

[lifewise]

I beg to differ. I think all those things you mention play on a persons self esteem. A person from an higher social status, may have already jumped a few hurdles before they ever step foot in the school.
Sean

Perhaps self-esteem issues should be a thread on its own. I don't want to argue this point, but a person from a higher social status may have been GRANTED a few passes over hurdles too which increases self-esteem.

You mention social status - Students from a "higher social status" may be considered more valuable to a school/instructor because of connections which would benefit the school/instructor and therefore this student is held to a different set of standards for advancement.

If the student is a child, parents in this group are also more likely to become involved in the school in either a positive or negative way based on the child's advancement or lack of.

:asian:

 

[Touch Of Death]

Perhaps self-esteem issues should be a thread on its own. I don't want to argue this point, but a person from a higher social status may have been GRANTED a few passes over hurdles too which increases self-esteem.

You mention social status - Students from a "higher social status" may be considered more valuable to a school/instructor because of connections which would benefit the school/instructor and therefore this student is held to a different set of standards for advancement.

If the student is a child, parents in this group are also more likely to become involved in the school in either a positive or negative way based on the child's advancement or lack of.

:asian:

Well now your getting to the heart of the matter... Money.
Sean

 

[edhead2000]

You mention social status - Students from a "higher social status" may be considered more valuable to a school/instructor because of connections which would benefit the school/instructor and therefore this student is held to a different set of standards for advancement.

Are you defining social status based solely on the quality of "connections" a person has?

 

[lifewise]

Are you defining social status based solely on the quality of "connections" a person has?

No. I am not defining "social status" at all.

 

[edhead2000]

No. I am not defining "social status" at all.

How will the instructor know the social status of a child's parents?

 

[Touch Of Death]

How will the instructor know the social status of a child's parents?

Well I would hope the instructor has at least met the kids parents. :uhyeah:
Sean

 

[edhead2000]

Yes, and to an extent that can tell you a little bit about a person's social status. But I believe that social status encompasses quite a bit of things that aren't exactly visible, which is why I'm wondering how we're defining it so I can be on the same playing field.

 

[lifewise]

How will the instructor know the social status of a child's parents?

Are you serious?

 

[edhead2000]

Well, you'd never guess my parent's social status by the way they act, dress, where they live, or the cars they drive.......

 

[KenpoTess]

I think I'm fair when it comes to teaching ... I have to admit there's a certain 9 yo that I grit my teeth at .. nothing to do with his looks, age or social status.. he's just a Pain... I get perturbed at some of the kids. One in particular can't tear himself away from the mirror (he's 11 going on 21)... Very talented if he puts his mind to his training.. not how his hair looks.. Do I treat him any way differently than I treat another student who's rather soft and geeky? Probably.. just in the sense that I might get more excited when the 'geek' performs his tecs 'right on', and get more strict when the athletic 11 yo (who can see something done once and 'imitate' it.. ) isn't doing what I know he can.
Social status? Uhh.. what's that? I'm not interested. I interact with the parents one way or another and we all get together for school parties (the adult student's parents don't come around unless it's for a get-together- The little kids parents. I talk to most every class.)

Each kid gets tested on their own accord, if they know the material.. they advance.. if they don't know it.. then no promotion.

Tess